SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Boys Varsity Soccer The "magical" ball in the 4A game

Not even being at the game and looking at the video footage and stills, it is pretty clear that a couple of things happened at the Irmo SA game. I find it really interesting that the ball was shoulder-high going towards the goal and it magically stopped in midair and drops to the defenders feet. Then the ball actually gets knocked into the goal, and after the ball is clearly in the goal, it is kicked back out. The referee is not in a bad position, but I get much closer to the 6 for those corner kicks. He should not have been 18 yards out making that call, he should have been within 8-10 yards. That is a rookie mistake to be that far out. Yet from his vantage point he still had the vision to see that the ball mysteriously is stopped from going into the goal. At the very least there should have been a red card of the player and a PK. From the benefit of seeing the video, it should have been a red card ejection for the defender with the goal being scored making it a 1-1 game. What did those that were at the game live see? I also find it a bit interesting that Phil was shown a card for yelling that there was a hand ball. He didn't even come out on the field and he was shown a card, and the ref made some pretty aggravating gestures trying to show he was in control. You need to stay cool and not argue as the ref. Sometimes an explination is warranted, expecially in a situation like this. The referees with attitudes are not needed. They only exacerbate situations like this. I didn't see any reason to give a yellow card. The video doesn't lie, but then again, you can see that the AR is blocked from being able to make a clean call. Maybe he should have moved in on the line to just outside the 6 like they do on PKs.....Can anyone that was at the game tell me what they saw? And why don't we have refs at the goal line whose duty it is to see if the ball crossed the goal or a handball occurs. Look at the NFL, and when a field goal is kicked, there are two refs under the uprights....you could have the same thing in soccer.

Soccerboy are you a certified referee?
I ask this because u sounds as if you have experience in this matter. I think the Coach received a yellow card and quite possibly been shown a Ejection because he left his coaching box to verbally attack the refereeing crew something that is not allowed in any sport. What the video does not show is how he was warned in the first half for his benches disrespectful behavior.

Please consider that we as refs have to make split second decisions with eyes that don't magically move into a slow motion mode, like on a camera. Our angles of vision cannot be automatically adjusted, either. The line ref was in a correct and proper position (as he was trained to be) in order to make the best possible call he could make. If he moves up too close to the goal he then is out of position for a position touchline call or a potential offside call. But.....if you view 'the play' in slow motion from the very start, you can see that the corner cross was a great 1 touch shot that the SA player either hit with his upper chest or part of his face to knock it down, but you cannot see if it hit his hand or arm from the camera angle. The line ref would have had a better view than the irmo camera did of that. Once the ball drops down, it is impossible to tell if the ball crossed the line. And look at the reaction of the Irmo players........none of them claimed hand ball or that the ball crossed the line. They were just in amazement that they did not finish the shot. If you watch English Premier games there are a lot of questionable hand ball calls that are not called. And those are supposedly some of the best refs. The ref was in the best position for that call, but he had 3,4 players blocking his view as well as the goal post itself. But that was like maybe 10 secs out of an 80 min. game. Irmo should not base their loss on that one play cause they did not test 'the Goose' near as often as they should have. You can't take long shots against him. You have to constantly cross and pass around the 18, get him out of position and then finish. So don't put the blame on the refs. You have to play the game and make your own breaks.

2004, I have been a ref for 5 years, I know the proper places for standing on CK's, Pk's etc...if the box is crowded, you can come in to the 6 with no problems, you better be able to get back in position fast though. It is a simple thing of being as close to the ball without interfering with the play. I didn't blame the refs for the loss, I just brought up some good points. It may have been a significantly different game if that would have been called a goal. As for the defender using his face to deflect the ball, simple trigonometry shows that the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection. Physically it would have been impossible for the left side of his face to deflect the ball out of the gaol. It is quite evident that the upper arm was probably used. And don't use the excuse that it was only 10 seconds out of an 80 minute game...being a ref....like I said before, you can screw a great game up by missing a call that is only 2 seconds or less in duration. I just question whether we should have a 5th and 6th referee on the endline to watch for goals so the center isn't blocked by 4 or 5 guys. I have had 4 or 5 guys block me on many occasions...and it sucks!

soccerboy, how come you weren't providing all of this analysis last year when irmo won the state final due to a referee's call? Seems to me that you only offer up this information when the team you support loses.

Soccerboy, if you are a ref, would you consider posting your last name so that players and fellow coaches who might have suffered you this season might run down the litany of your missed calls?

It would be impossible to call that shot from the stands..obviously. If you were for Irmo, it was a goal and a handball. If you were against, it wasn't. Simple! ha ha. However, I think the general concensus agrees that it definitely looks like a goal and at the very least, the defender deflected that ball somewhere below his shoulders...and not with his leg. Anyway, I don't believe anyone is bellyaching about the loss, but this was an important call and it should be addressed for future matches. Also, Phil was not warned about disrespectful behavior. I don't know where you were sitting, but what happened was the referee told him that he wanted to only be addressed by him, not by his staff. This was a request by the referee, not a warning, and this was before the game even began. Obviously, Phil was addressing him after that call. ha ha. I think Phil did what he should have. The coach needs to question a call like that. It was warranted, and possibly so was the yellow card, but at that point, Phil didn't care about getting a yellow card, he was trying to make a point, and he had every right to do so. There are a lot of questionable calls during every teams season, some go your way, and some do not. Referees admit that they make mistakes, there is a lot happening on the field. Eveyone learns from their mistakes, hopefully. I bet even he watched the tape and wonders what he could've done differently. That's life folks. The question is can we position additional referees, linesmen, whatever, at matches of this magnitude to possibly avoid this happening in the future.

Why are we talking about adding refs. to games??? The 3-man ref. system is fine, they have worked in the past and will continue to work in the future. Whether we have 3 refs or 10 refs. calls will be made that are questionable. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

Bruticus, My last name is Gray, and I didn't ref in SC this year, I reffed in WI. You can contact whom you wish to see how good of a job I did. I usually do a pretty good job, but I will have to say that I have had my not-so-great moments in games too.... But I try to position myself so that I don't get caught with my "pants down". It is really embarassing to screw a call up that bad, and have it on video too. It is a split second decision, and sometimes you miss stuff. Unfortunately you can't see everything! But when there are corner kicks, you better be in a better position than this guy was.

Coach, I think I did talk about the PK last year when the guy from Irmo was taken down. It was evident from that play that it was a PK. I have the video at home of the game, I can digitize it and send that portion to you if you want to discuss it further!