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I know eveyone has been beating up on Lake City. But 20-0 and 28-0 I mean come on guys. Has there coach never heard of calling off the dogs. Thats not even right. Either the coach should have said quit scoring or the refs should have said enough and called the game. Thats pretty ridiculous
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MAYBE YOU SHOULD MENTION LOWER RICHLAND!!! SPRING VALLEY BEAT THEM 32-0 IN 2001 OR 2002!!! I BELIEVE THATS A NATIONAL RECORD!!! HEY IF YOU'RE GOOD ENOUGH TO SCORE THAT MANY GOALS SCORE EM!!! THATS WHAT THE GAME IS ALL ABOUT!!! MIGHT AS WELL WORK ON FINISHING FOR GAMES THAT ARE MORE IMPORTANT!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by futbolpk10:
I know eveyone has been beating up on Lake City. But 20-0 and 28-0 I mean come on guys. Has there coach never heard of calling off the dogs. Thats not even right. Either the coach should have said quit scoring or the refs should have said enough and called the game. Thats pretty ridiculous
I agree 100%....
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No because when you play teams that are more important a team wont be walking through which im sure is what happened w/ Lakewood and SV. Im sure they werent trying that hard. You should work on some possesion and try to keep the ball instead of one kid beating the entire team which is what usually happens in games like that.
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I AGREE BUT IF YOU CAN WORK TOGETHER COLLECTIVELY AS A TEAM TO SCORE GOALS DO IT!!
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All of your CAPS and exclamation points hurt my head. Could you try the shift key and the period button?
48 goals scored in two games is not what soccer is about. Good job on the win, but thats just bad politics.
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I can see your point to Jackson but i mean come on 28 (or even the 32 u mentioned) I mean at some point in that game someone needed to say wait this is pretty bad. I mean even these other teams that lose by double digits its like 11 or 12, something like that. I mean a game like that you could get every kid on the field and get them one goal if you wanted to and it still shouldnt be 28.
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i think teams that get beat 28-0 should have soccer banned from their school. High school soccer is suppose to be competitive not recreational.
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I AGREE CHAMP THATS JUST EMBRASSING!!! THE REF SHOULD OF CALLED IT IF YOU ASK ME!!
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WILLIE THERE'S BAD POLITICS ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES!!!
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i agree with "futbolpk10", the ref or the coach should of said or done something. i believe that it is unnecessary, unsportsman like, and uncalled for. if you beat the team 8-0 instead of 28-0 what is the difference. you still have a "W" in your column and they have a "L" in theirs! there is no need to run up a score like that. and for those that want the soccer game to be a challenge, then maybe if you don't make the teams feel utterly ashamed of themselves then maybe they will want to play harder and have more interest in the program. would you rather play one the losing side of an 5-0 game with hopes of coming back or a 10-0 game knowing there is no way to get back up there?? come on. some people (coaches, players, and refs) need to use some common sense.
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I agree with Jackson, players could use the free finishing practice in a gametime situation for tougher teams down the road.
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Bottom line: If you can score, you want score, and you will score. Everyone wants to score. Ever think that the 22nd or 24th goal goes to a defender, goalie, benchwarmer...That goal means alot to them even though it was a blowout.
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I agree 100%. If you have a chance to score a goal you score it. you don't dribble all the way up to the 6 yard box and then pass it to the keeper, you put that junk in the top corner. If you don't want teams scoring a lot of goals, make your defense stronger.
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Just my opinion...I see no value in outscoring a team by double digit scores. "If" I was a coach with a double digit lead at the half I would approach the other coach and refs about calling the game. Why run the risk of getting someone injured? I respectfully disagree with those that see no problem with a 28 - 0 score but I just don't see anything positive in this type of game.
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I agree. But knowing the unprofessional stupidity of some Refs, they should get control of a situation like this.
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its just lakewood taking their frustrations out after many years of seeing scores like this, ie 97-2000 or so. SV beat lakewood 28-0 in 97, their first year in existence.
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At what point does the coach start showing his kids what having "a little Class" is all about? 28-0, no class, doesn't matter if it is SV or Lakewood.
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No offense at all GVLSoccerDad but you only say this because you are a parent. Even if i am getting crushed and pumeled i want to finish the game. In college intramurals they call the game if you are behind more than 4 goals (USC indoor soccer rule). That is ridiculus i just want to play and they call the game on me. You may see no value of outscoring a team that much but some of the players want goals and they should get the chance to score them in that situation.
I have played alot of highschool games that we have gotten bet by double digit scores. Never at one time did i want those games to be called off. I enjoyed playing with a higher level soccer team.
And for everyone who says "well baseball has a skunk rule"...well baseball players are babies.
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You all say these teams have no class but i guarentee you that if you were in this game on the winning side and you had a chance to score you would not pass the ball right to the keeper you would rocket it in the net. Everyone wants to score. It is part of the game.
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"WhatDoesItMatter" makes great points. Playing my entire life including very competive high school soccer, and collegiate soccer you need some of these types of games to prepare for the Greenville's, Daniel's, Riverside's, and JL Mann's of the world.
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just out of curiosity where do/did you play in college?
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I've always had coaches in the past who could find something else to work on other than finishing. They beat this team 20-0 the first time around, was there goal to put more than 20 on the board the second time? Good coaches can find things to work on in a mismatched game, you're kidding yourself if you think they were working on finishing.
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Good point. They already put 20 in on them the first game. Another thing like i posted earlier. I know defense, gks, etc. want to score but in a game like that you could get every kid on the team a goal and it still shouldnt be
28-0. You know u are gonna blow them out. Coach should say you get one goal you are off or stick them in D.
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North Greenville College, but before you say who is that? We played in the ever so tough NAIA division, where Lindsey Wilson rules winning like 9 out of the last 11 national championships.
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It's pretty hard to defend 48 goals in two games.. all I can think is.. this is a program that gets 100+ goals scored against it on average every year.
..they finally have someone who can do more than toe-punch..so now THEY'RE running it up.
..i'm not impressed.
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i think playing not to score is pointless, its a waste of time. but no starters should have been taken out. give the young benchwarmers time, and if they manufacture goals, then take them. playing them with the instructions to avoid scoring is pointless, they need the game experience. at the same time 28-0 is ridiculous. once it gets to 12-0 15-0 i say call em off. require headers or one touch shots or so many passes.
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It's not the ref's responsibility to keep the score down, just to enforce the laws of the game. The coach should try pulling players off the field until things even out. You have to have seven on the field including the goalie. I like this approach better, because I don't like telling kids not to try to score. That can hurt you later. If you tell them to play one or two touch, that usually produces more goals. If you are two or threeplayers down, you can still play good soccer, and keep the score respectable.
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L-E Dude-
You would think that but...
Lakewood 11 wins 6 losses
105 goals scored 36 against
Lake City 0 wins 6 losses
1 goal scored 102 against
Probably should look for 1a or 2a games to put on schedule, 3a just too much right now. I really don't know the situation.
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quote:
Originally posted by WhatDoesItMatter:
Bottom line: If you can score, you want score, and you will score. Everyone wants to score. Ever think that the 22nd or 24th goal goes to a defender, goalie, benchwarmer...That goal means alot to them even though it was a blowout.
One player scored 9 goals and another scored 7.
Lakewood has been reasonably competitive in their region the last 2 years and the coach has forgotten whats its like to be pounded. He will relearn that lesson starting next season. I only, hope those teams have more class than he does.
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I think pulling players off the field to even up the match is worse that putting 28 on the board. That's showing a major sign of disrepect. "oh we're killing this team so lets try to make it more even by playing with seven."
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quote:
Originally posted by sweepit:
L-E Dude-
You would think that but...
Lakewood 11 wins 6 losses
105 goals scored 36 against
Lake City 0 wins 6 losses
1 goal scored 36 against
Probably should look for 1a or 2a games to put on schedule, 3a just too much right now. I really don't know the situation.
Look at what happened to RB Stall a few years ago. They tried to get the program going, but were pounded game after game. The kids became discouraged and I don't believe they have a program anymore. Kids will not play on a team that gets humiliated game after game. Again, what goes around comes around and Lakewood's 2 or 3 average to decent players are leaving. They better hope the West Florences of the world have have more class than they showed.
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Lakewood is staying in 3A are they not? Should be them Crestwood, Darlington, Lake City, Wilson, and Marlboro County next year.
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quote:
Originally posted by BDad11:
quote:
Originally posted by sweepit:
L-E Dude-
You would think that but...
Lakewood 11 wins 6 losses
105 goals scored 36 against
Lake City 0 wins 6 losses
1 goal scored 36 against
Probably should look for 1a or 2a games to put on schedule, 3a just too much right now. I really don't know the situation.
Look at what happened to RB Stall a few years ago. They tried to get the program going, but were pounded game after game. The kids became discouraged and I don't believe they have a program anymore. Kids will not play on a team that gets humiliated game after game. Again, what goes around comes around and Lakewood's 2 or 3 average to decent players are leaving. They better hope the West Florences of the world have have more class than they showed.
See where LAkewood would be without Lake City and Columbia High on their schedule.
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What I think about this is total disrespect! From what i've heard is that this is lake city's first year with a soccer team. What makes you think that they will come back next year? hopefully they do! The first game was won 20 and the coach nowing that lake city probably had no chance at winning the second game he should of started the game with the guys that usually not playing as much!
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Lakewood is staying in 3A are they not? Should be them Crestwood, Darlington, Lake City, Wilson, and Marlboro County next year.
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I feel you have to look at the big picture here. Lake City is trying to BUILD a program. They have a lot of players that have never played soccer before. The coach is trying to spark some interest in soccer at Lake City. It is very difficult to try to keep a positive attitude with your team when when teams beating you this bad. The kids from Lake City are playing hard and doing the best that they can. Any one that is concerned for the growth of soccer in South Carolina should frown upon scores like this.
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And Irmo 17-0 over lowly LR. There are many options available to hold blow-outs down; such as playing 11 v. 7 while you rotate your complete bench the entire game.
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The only game that was respectable so far has been the Wilson game. Even though it was 10-0 the Wilson coach tried his best to keep it under double digits. From what i heard the ref gave a pk with 1 min. to go and one of the girls for Wilson scored it. But thats what you should do, try to keep it respectable. Doesnt seem like other teams are even trying to do that when they play LC.
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My thing about a ref is that he should identify the situation and aproach the coach
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Yeah def. It was at Lakewood so i cant comment on the refs. I know if it would have been in this region. Florence, Hartvsille area refs, it wouldnt have gotten that bad. Refs here would have said thats enough prob.
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quote:
Originally posted by 2004striker:
And Irmo 17-0 over lowly LR. There are many options available to hold blow-outs down; such as playing 11 v. 7 while you rotate your complete bench the entire game.
In defense of Irmo, I did not recognize the name of one single player who scored for Irmo. No Princes, Monroes, Acrees, Dulals, or even Bedenbaughs. So Savitz apparently had a plan from the beginning on how to keep the score down.
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Playing 11 v 7 is ridiculous. When team USA struggled you didn't see Brazil or Germany taking it easy on them. Maybe they should incorporate a new rule. Any new team plays other weaker teams to get going and build confidence. You can't punish already estblished teams for being a lot better.
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Hopefully Lake City comes back next year from this humiliation. "Thats a great way for soccer to get bigger here in south carolina." makes me sick to ever see a team take advantage of games like this!
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Yeah LC needs to just stick with it. Look at Marlboro County, They went years of getting beat by high double digit scores and now they are competitive and have won 3 games this year, including a region win. LC just needs to stick it out and prepare for next year.
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Why not play your JVs in the game instead.... Probably what Irmo did.
Aren't Jvs allowed to play one varsity game?
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quote:
Originally posted by sweepit:
L-E Dude-
You would think that but...
Lakewood 11 wins 6 losses
105 goals scored 36 against
Lake City 0 wins 6 losses
1 goal scored 36 against
Probably should look for 1a or 2a games to put on schedule, 3a just too much right now. I really don't know the situation.
..did you even read my post? The stats you posted are from this year.. usually those stats are reversed(except they don't usually score 36 goals in a season).
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Does Lakewood have a JV program?
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All the ways around this 28-0 slobber knocker ya'll are talking about are stupid. That is showing more disrespect than putting 28 on the board. playing 11 v 7 is a slap in the face and definitley playing your jv squad is a slap in the face.
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The dearth of soccer in South Carolina can be found in the Pee Dee!
Chesterfield-Lee-Sumter-Clarendon-Marlboro-Darlington-Dillon-Florence-Marion-Williamsburg counties need to stop it already.
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Loc, If I recall Lakewood was in Region 4-4A with Dutch Fork, Ridge View, Spring Valley, Richland Northeast(When they were still good), and Sumter. Lakewood had maybe 3 or 4 quality players which the other teams I named had 20 deep. Lakewood didn't have club players. Thats why a lot of teams can't compete because lack of club players.
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Lakewood has been in 3A for at least the last 5-6 years. You maybe thinking of Crestwood.. basically same thing..except Crestwood is still awful.
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OldRef,
I agree. Play a man (or two or three) down. This allows your players to get in some decent work. They have to work much harder. And while they are at it, work on 1/2 touch with absolutely no through balls for breakaways. Must build from the back.
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What if your next game is against a tough team? What good does it do to play with 7? You can tell the non-soccer players in here.
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The people's Champ just needs keep his mouth shut before he gets the SMACK DOWN laid on his Candy A**. If you think you're somebody, think again. The only reason Powerhouse are any good is because their a bunch a rich snobs in a wwealthy region. Coaches might mean alot but our coach is one of the best out there at any level. So come out to a high school out in the boonies and be a powerhouse, then you can say something. Until then just shut up.
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Lakewood does not have a JV bench players were played the whole game. we only have like 2 bench players as it is. refs were very horrible and stupid. lakewood did used to be in a region with all those teams that used to be very good. and they did used to get the crap beat out of them. sorry they just wanted to break some records and showoff a bit. its only human nature. there are a lot of other teams out there that would try and do the same thing.
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Powerhouses have nothing to do with being rich. it has a lot to do with how much you practice. when you arent practicing with your team you should be at home practicing by yourself, working on your touch or something. You have no clue about soccer.
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I'm sorry i'm not from a rural, under developed weak soccer producing area. In the Upstate we are rich in tradition. Check the banners.
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This is not Lake City's first ever year as a program. They had a team several years ago but for the past 2-3 years have not fielded a team.
I believe that the teams that are elite teams now will remain elite teams because they are in an area with quality club teams and feeder programs from youth soccer. Starting club teams in other regions that are away from major metropolitan areas will take years to develop.
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"mbplay4life" You said it Perfectly.
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Every week that goes by produces more examples of why there should be a mercy rule. Mercy for both teams, coaches, fans and officials.
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It may be disrespectful but if i was in a game and i could score 9 or 7 goals...I would and would not think twice about it. I think most players would do the same thing.
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so are you saying for EXAMPLE if a powerhouse played one of the weakest teams in the state it would be ok to beat them 50-0??????? where one player could have 10-15 goals? think about it!
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yea scoring goals is part of the game. Would they stop Ronaldinho in Brazil for scoring goals as a kid. I am sure some of the games he played he prolly had a ton of goals. No it is not fair, but it is the game and that is the way it goes.
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WhatDoesItMatter your right!!!
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Are u seriously talking about Ronaldinho and Brazil. Of course they wouldnt stop him but he is World Player of the Year. We are talking about high school kids from Lakewood. Two totally different situations there.
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ALL I KNOW IS WHOEVER SCORED GOALS FOR LAKEWOOD IS GOING TO HAVE A CAREER YEAR!!!
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I don't care who you are in the nation that's a lot of goals good or not, weak schedule or not, top 10 or not!!!
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I am not talking about him as world player of the year i am talking about him as a player of the game bottome line. If you can score you dont stop, it is like in your blood. They are not really totally different situations, both people are scoring goals and the only way they should be stopped of doing so, is by the defense of the other team.
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quote:
Originally posted by WhatDoesItMatter:
It may be disrespectful but if i was in a game and i could score 9 or 7 goals...I would and would not think twice about it. I think most players would do the same thing.
What satisfaction can you derive from scoring 7 or 9 goals against LAke City or Columbia High. Score 3 against a top 10 team or better yet in Premier LEague or ODP, then crow. Otherwise, realize most knowledgable soccer fans aren't impressed by scoring 9 goals against LC.Lets see how you fare against the big boys.
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Whatdoesitmatter...yes I am a parent but I played sports throughout HS and College and was always taught to respect my opponent. I question how much "satisfaction" someone gets from scoring goal # 25 or any of them from #10 on up. Again...just a difference of opinion. I'd rather lose a hard fought 1 - 0 game then win by some huge score. Hopefully I will have learned more during the loss then during the blowout that will better prepare me for the next "tough" game.
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So whatdoesitmatter if i (another example and i don't mean it to get carried away but its an example) if i was punching you in the face would you like me to quit or keep going? thats what happens in boxing if the oppenent is pretty much down throw the towel in and call it!
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In no way am i saying that i could do that against a quality team or that i am a great stricker of any kind. I am saying IF I COULD score that many goals i would. Obvisly the reason i would be able to score that many would be because the team was far below par.
I would score as many goals as I could no matter what the score is. Scoring is one of the great parts of the game. Yes I would feel sorry for the other team but that would not stop me. And the refs better not ever call some stupid mercy rule.
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i played in the premier league and odp, and if you can score 7 goals in a game against one of those teams, i'll personally give you $100. if you have a chance to score...score. if it would've been me out there, i would been shooting until my legs either cramped up or fell off. You cant have mercy because who is to say others will have mercy on you.
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I dont think anyone could score 7 goals in one game in the premier league or odp. If they can props to them.
I agree with you "the peoples champ" shoot shoot and shoot again. Part of the game.
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People's Champ--
mbplay4life DID say it perfectly...and amazingly, without being derogatory, arrogant, or downright insulting to anyone in the process. Maybe you could take a lesson from your own compliment.
Feeder programs are a huge part of any great team's success; when players come in with years of experience before the ever step on the varsity field, it is a big advantage. That doesn't mean the newer or more rural teams can't build and develop; it will just take several seasons of perserverance to accomplish.
Now, as for the lopsided scoring...if you can explain to me how continually driving the ball in on a defense that is offering little or no resistance at that point actually "prepares" you to face a strong team in the next match, I'll concede the point. As a coach, I find little correlation between the two.
One of the two principles of ethics is that the overall benefits have to outweigh the overall harm. If someone can explain how the benefits of a 28-0 win for an already stronger team outweigh the damage a 28-0 loss can do to the spirit of a new, developing team, then I will concede it as ethical treatment.
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The reason they throw the towell in is because the guy is about to die. Have you ever watched UFC or a fight were a guy gets pummelled the entire match. If he is able to stand the boxer wants to go on. The only person who throws the towell is the guy in the corner.
A true athlete of any kind never ever wants to quit no matter what the odds are.
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WhatDoesItMatter...you're right. Way back when I was an assistant coach at Blackville-Hilda ('bout 10 years ago), we had a first-round playoff match against Bishop England. They ran up 8-1 on us. The referees called the game with about 15 minutes to go because, in the referee's words, "They have another match to prepare for--there's no point in anyone getting hurt over this."
Can't remember being so angry about a soccer match before or since...the match is 80 minutes, we came for 80, we'll play for 80, no matter what.
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Once i was coaching a rec league girls game, and we were pounding the other team. The ref came to me and told me to call off the dogs. I did, and I don't think our team scored again that season. We never could get it back. First of all, it's the coach's job to keep HIS team sharp. We also should be teaching good sportsmanship and building character, but we still play to win and you win by scoring goals. It's the other teams responsibility to keep the score down. I've seen teams pass it around and not try to score, and I really believe the losing team would rather they try to score. Playing a man or two down preserves the quality of play and at least makes it meaningful.
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Coach Chass- That is horrible i really hope you did some complaining to the league for that one. I completely agree that is the worst way to end a season, not the defeat but the refs ending your season like that.
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if i offended anyone, i apologize. i think the team that was beat 28-0 needs to play other weaker teams until they develop. just a few years ago, lakewood was taking beatings like this. Now that they are on the winning side, people are talking about it. i personally think you gain valuable experience playing in any game. you dont know what the other team is going to do, you dont know their tendancies until you start playing. when you practice against the same guys day after day, you are ready for a new opponent. i dont blame lakewood, its coaches or its players one bit for winning 28-0. they should've killed that team and they did. let the kids play.
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quote:
Originally posted by sweepit:
L-E Dude-
You would think that but...
Lakewood 11 wins 6 losses
105 goals scored 36 against
Lake City 0 wins 6 losses
1 goal scored 102 against
Probably should look for 1a or 2a games to put on schedule, 3a just too much right now. I really don't know the situation.
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Yes Lake City and other teams that are in the same situation should schedule as easy teams as they can the have close games. But if it is a region game sorry....Just prepare for the beating. I used to against NW lol
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Luckily i played for a great high school program in the upstate. we played tough games night in and night out. when we would play one of the "easier teams" it gave our subs a chance to play, and others to gain experience. Point is, Lakewood, has to play some tough teams, why not let them go out and have fun?
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People's Champ--much better said. I respect your opinion on that. I still personally believe there comes a point when you're not really helping yourself by racking up the score, but that's just me.
On the other hand, as I've told people many times...the only way I've ever gotten really good at anything was by getting my tail kicked over and over by someone better until I figured out how to beat them.
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In a game like this, another alternative for the coach might be to tie one of the arms on each of his players behind their back and if they still win then they can say, "they beat the team with one arm tied behind their back."
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another point, lets say two teams are tied going into the playoffs, how do they break the tie? goal differential??? 28-0 maybe just earned them a better playoff seed.
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Good One Soccer for Fun!!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by the peoples champ:
i played in the premier league and odp, and if you can score 7 goals in a game against one of those teams, i'll personally give you $100. if you have a chance to score...score. if it would've been me out there, i would been shooting until my legs either cramped up or fell off. You cant have mercy because who is to say others will have mercy on you.
You have no control over whether someone shows you mercy, but you you certainly DO have control over your own actions......
HAd Zach Prince,Jamal Geathers or any other top flight player been in that situation, I guarantee you they would not derive any satsifaction from pouring it on hapless Lake City. They KNOW that scoring against that level of team is no big deal and I've seen players even be embarassed to be scoring after a while...
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Any smart coach in South Carolina knows that those players you mentioned are difference makers that can lead their team to winning STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!! They wouldn't risk them getting injured!!!
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So, you're telling me you have a top goal scoring recruit out there. colleges all over are looking at him. What is he trying to do? Score as many goals as possible. If the coach doesnt take him out, he keeps scoring. Scoring goals is his ticket to a top college, what do you do?
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The people's champ,
Obviously you cannot tell the non soccer players here. If you want to know my coaching and playing experience, just ask.
Do you really not see how playing with only 7 players against a weak team makes you sharp? Do you never play small sided, odd number games at practice? If you don't, and you are really at a "good" Upstate school, you solidify my belief that HS soccer (and many of the coaches) are overrated.
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After 2 or 3 in a mismatch most good players get bored or uninterseted in scoring. The challenge is not there for them.
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i didnt say it wouldnt help them, i said that it is just as embarrasing to the other team to play against 7 than to have a big 28 scored on them.
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P.S. im not in school anymore.
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peoples champ, how so?
the team with 7 actually has a challenge and challenges are what makes the game fun and interesting.
the team with 11 doesnt get the score run up on them..
after 7 goals a team should drop a few players, put the bench in or play 2 touch.. i mean going up on a team 28-0 is ridiculous. shows no class or sportsmanship. but if they did make some effort to challenge themselves, then more power to ya.
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quote:
Originally posted by Jackson, Samuel L.:
Any smart coach in South Carolina knows that those players you mentioned are difference makers that can lead their team to winning STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!! They wouldn't risk them getting injured!!!
I KNOW THOSE PLAYERS...... When you know you are a great player, then scoring against Lake City brings you no satsfaction whatso ever...Maybe if you are an average player and this is 15 minutes of fame, possibly, but a great player would be embarrased by something like this..... You become the equivalent of a soccer bully...
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BDad11 - THIS WAS LAKEWOODS 15 MINUTES OF FAME!!! Name one all star on the team. Leave those kids alone.
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quote:
Originally posted by Jackson, Samuel L.:
Any smart coach in South Carolina knows that those players you mentioned are difference makers that can lead their team to winning STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!! They wouldn't risk them getting injured!!!
So you think the reason Savitz didn't play ZAch,Christian , Alex,etc was he didn't want the big bad boys from LR to hurt them. Or maybe he actually has class and realizes that situations like this do harm to a sport he has given his working life to build up...
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It shouldn't!! Did you not see what I wrote? I'm saying those guys would not even played in the game! Their teams are deep enough to have their B-Team play against teams like that.
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Lets get real!! Savitz knows the big picture!!
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quote:
Originally posted by the peoples champ:
BDad11 - THIS WAS LAKEWOODS 15 MINUTES OF FAME!!! Name one all star on the team. Leave those kids alone.
I have no problem with any Lakewood players..They did what they were instructed or allowed to do....
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Lets stop making it look like Savitz is the Moses of South Carolina High School Soccer!!
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Yes, thats the very reason. When you go up big on a team, the weaker team wants to get even by playing dirty. i've been the recipient of this very thing before. coach left me in to keep some organization in the middle and one of the weaker teams thugs thought it would be funny to injure someone.
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I'm done with this topic... Good luck to LAkewood. I hope they continue to play well and have a fine season.....
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nature boy,
i understand your opinion here. you have seen it from both sides. if you played at north greenville you took your fair share of beat downs.i can respect that.
not sure i buy in to the scoring and colleges scenario though. i doubt berson,or gfeller for that matter, cares how many goals Joe High School scored against Lake City.
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If you want to talk class lets talk it? you say its lack of class to win 28-0? would you say it was a lack of class for the way Irmo acted at the end of the State Championship game last year?
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I think we (Region 7) are up against this region in the playoffs. Who is first in this region so far?
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There are different ways to try to keep the score down; some of them are just as embarrassing (or more) to the other team as running the score up. I've seen players dribble right up to the goal, fake a shot, and then turn and dribble back the other way--the old "could have had ya" routine. This, to me, is less sportsmanlike than shooting. At least if you take the shot, you give the keeper a chance to make the save.
Other teams I've seen just run triangle drills up and down the field, from one goal to the other and back...again, embarrassing, and doesn't really do either team any good.
I say if you want to lay off a bit, play hard on 2/3 of the field (the other team obviously needs the practice against challenging opponents), and take all the shots you want--from the edge of the penalty box and beyond. This gives your strikers and wings some legitimate shooting practice (much more beneficial than dribbling right into the goal on a weak defense, which you more than likely CAN'T reproduce against the stronger team you'll face next--and who couldn't use some extra practice at shooting from outside?), and it also gives the opposing keeper some legitimate practice and a chance to save face by making some saves.
A good soccer team can find a way to challenge themselves in almost any situation--if you're a striker who is just a scoring machine, try taking each shot from a little farther out until you find your limit--and maybe even stretch it--rather than repeating the same easy pattern that isn't even a challenge for you in this situation. Use the opportunity to try some things you wouldn't want to do in high-risk situations; you might just end up adding a new element to your game, and if the other team stops you, it's a boost for them and no harm done for you.
For the underdog teams--remember, small victories can be big victories. I remember the first time our rural, no-feeder-program team scored on a top-ten 4-A school...seemed like our one goal was harder on them than their seven were on us.
Score or no score, odds or no odds, play hard, play 80, and play because you love the game.
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Great Post Coach Chass, couldn't agree more.
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This will be my last post on this topic:
I believe that if you can score goals score goals. I would not ever stop shooting and trying to score. Yes it is kinda of bad for the other team but that would not stop me. I love scoring and i think that is one of the great thrills of the game.
Sorry for the teams getting stomped but you will just have to get over it.
Maybe if i ever become a coach or a parent and not a player i will look at this situation differently. But until then the higher the score the better.
This is not rec league anymore people are mean. What is the whole point of a nutmeg, to humilate the other player. Running up the score is the same type of thing. People are mean, life is not fair. The End
"Swing away"
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Some of you think that 7 v 11 is as embarassing as 28-0. Now thats really ridiculous. There is no comparison. A coach can work it any number of ways so that both teams have fun, bench players play, no one is embarrassed and the better players even get their skill work in for the next game:
One way: Team A (stronger team) starts 11 bench players v. Team B 11 players for 10 mins. Then on a rotation basis Team A plays top 7 v. Team B 11. That would present some challenge for Team A top 7 to score v. 11 players. Then in 2nd half if it is still 7-8 to 0, you can play with 7,8 Team A bench players v. Team B 11. I guarantee the final would not be close to 28-0. Maybe 8,9-2.
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This is my last will and testament: THAT WAS A COMPLETE BLOODBATH AND MASSACRE!!!
The End
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in my career playing with all types of players from around the world, i've understood that a meg is way worse that getting scored on, so lets all be happy that lakewood didnt get 28 megs.
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I wouldn't suggest that anyone start with 11 bench players...a coach's first responsibility to his team is to get the win, not to risk underestimating the competition. There's a big difference between the start of a game and when you're already up 8 or 10-0.
I remember one game years ago we were down 5-0 at the half...came back and won it 7-5 in the end. You have to be able to judge just how dominant your team is, up and down the field, before you start assuming things...
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Coach Chass do you think a team could come back at you from a 10-15 goal margin seriously!
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Coach,
If you look at a weak team's prior record (Lake City 0-6, 1 gf, 74 ga. Plus Lakewood won 1st game 20-0), you pretty much know the way the game will go. Of course there are many ways to then approach the game so that both teams accomplish what they need and no one is embarrassed.
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No, not at all...I would sure as heck hope not, anyway! Read back...I just said I wouldn't recommend STARTING the game with 11 bench players on the field...there's a big difference between the opening whistle and when you already have an 8-10 goal margin. There's also a big difference between a team that hasn't scored because they've missed opportunities, and a team that hasn't challenged.
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a meg more embarrasing than a goal? um, no. not a chance. Playing for swansea, I have definetaly been on the end of some severe beatings. Never in the twenties to zero, granted, but blowouts none the less. Furthermore, my pride was not hurt as much as a player, when the opposite team played possesion when they where ahead. Also, when we are up by alot, our coach makes sure we don't score any more goals. It is not neccasary to score an oober amount of goals. If your self esteem is so low that you feel you need to win by 30 goals, then well, geez, High school soccer must be tough for you.
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quote:
Originally posted by Coach Chass:
A good soccer team can find a way to challenge themselves in almost any situation--if you're a striker who is just a scoring machine, try taking each shot from a little farther out until you find your limit--and maybe even stretch it--rather than repeating the same easy pattern that isn't even a challenge for you in this situation. Use the opportunity to try some things you wouldn't want to do in high-risk situations; you might just end up adding a new element to your game, and if the other team stops you, it's a boost for them and no harm done for you.
I agree with this statement completely. Are you telling me that after a few easy goals that a team can't start to work on more difficult ways of scoring? What about 3 touch and pass? 2 touch? I have never seen a game where a coach could not put restrictions (without embarrasment to the other team)on scoring such as reducing the number of touches, working on a particular type of scoring (heading) and or putting in the bench players and doing the same thing.
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Man Lakewood is public enemy #1!! Everyone's going try to beat them and make examples out of them!!
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Is there a record for the most entries in the shortest time in this site? Benp?
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i say this is probably the fastest with the most entries futbol! but theres more after school is over today or practice after more players from more schools read about this.
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Lakewood should play a team that would put in double digit goals agaisnt them...there are plenty out there...
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I played college soccer where we lost every game that year. We were a non-scholarship school going up against scholarship schools. We lost 2 matches that year by scores of 19-0. That is bad, but it is worse when your coach does not try to coach you on anything either and then threatens you by not allowing you to eat after the game if you don't "play better".
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Lakewood used to be the whipping boy, and now that they are on the winning side people want to talk about them. Mid-State soccer is weak.
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High School's are wasting money by fielding a team that gets beat 28-0.
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benp I have to disagree with you on this one...
I do agree that this is being overstated and there really is nothing left to say...yet i still find something to say even though i said i would not say anything else.
The school should not get rid of their team. i am kind off surpised that you said this. They just need time to build...Imagine if you went to a high school with no soccer team, I dont know what i would do.
High school soccer to MOST high schools is not about winning it is about school spirit and having fun. Most of the recruiting and real competition these days is in club.
No school should ever get rid of a soccer program and i wish Lake City and other schools struggling the best of luck in the future. Times change, keep working at it...it will get better
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quote:
Originally posted by benp:
I Benp am a big dumb idiot
I agree..and disagree.
This topic SHOULD be closed. Those of you saying "score on"..are pathetic. It's like you've never scored a goal before.. ..if you're up 10..that's good enough..call it a day.. find a creative way to bide your time till the game is over.. end of story. Putting in 28..that proves nothing..does nothing for the game of soccer.. I'm pretty comfortable garanteeing that none of the 28 goals required any real skill or effort. That isn't soccer..that's practice.
..Lake City should field a team. Every program starts somewhere.. even the Northwesterns, Irmos, and Bishop Englands of the world. From what is posted online.. Lake City only plays region teams.. and all those teams: Crestwood, Wilson, Marion, and Lakewood ..get their arses handed to them year in and year out.
It's disgusting..
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I like them fielding a team, just play in a league that is more suitable.
Playing games in a league where you get killed will more than likely do more harm than good. The team will progress 10 times faster if they play against kids who are more along thier same skills. If Lake City was a 1a school, and did not have to play such harsh region games, then more power to them, play away, and your program will grow. But as it stands, rec is more beneficial (and i Guaruntee its more fun). Wear the same uniforms, you can still be the lake city slickers. But if they are embarrassed by their results, then there is no need to have them in the first place.
The kids can still gain the same experience, they can practice after school everyday, and stay out of trouble. They'll get good excercise...I think my solution is logical.
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The competition in their region isn't that far above them. Marion, Crestwood, Lakewood, Wilson, Lake City.. it's all the same. But these other schools should have the decency and class to know that when the game is in hand.. it is in hand. Each of these schools are incredibly susceptible to graduation/etc ..I just don't understand it.
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For those that think running up the score is wrong, well, here's "Keeper Dad's" thoughts. It's great for a keeper, you don't ever get that kind of practice. I'd love for my son to have a front 10 like that. In fact, during club he experienced it a few times. He came home more talkative (teenager) than most games. As a keeper, which would you rather have, kids dribbling to the 6yd box and pass it back to their own keeper, stand there for 80 minutes picking daisies, or challenged every minute? Enjoy it Lake City Keeper, it doesn't get any better THAN THAT. BTW, quote:
Originally posted by The Fan:
I played college soccer where we lost every game that year. We were a non-scholarship school going up against scholarship schools. We lost 2 matches that year by scores of 19-0. That is bad, but it is worse when your coach does not try to coach you on anything either and then threatens you by not allowing you to eat after the game if you don't "play better".
SEEN IT, AGREE 100%
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This thread needs to be closed. It is getting repetitive.
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Brace
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28-0??? ![[Mad]](images/icons/mad.gif) Sad truly sad!!! ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif)
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You can defeat an opponent without taking his dignity. (period!!!)
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Coach B...well said.
To "the infamous" benp:
This is a little uncharacteristic of me, but I'm having to make a conscious effort to write this in a manner so that Kyle won't have to come back and edit it.
You seem to be a well-liked and well-respected fellow around here, so your post really surprised me.
Let me see if I have this straight:
You have a school that is just trying to start a team (or restart it after a couple of seasons without one--not much difference, really) and you want to intentionally "rape" them and embarrass them until you force them to disband the team, disperse their players to a rec team, and stop polluting your elitist world with their inferiority, is that how I should have read that? Did you really mean that, or did I misinterpret a facetious post?
I'm sorry everyone can't magically appear on the soccer scene playing up to your standards, and I'm sorry you think it's such a burden on your team's time to have to play them, but thank God they don't need your permission to play. A lot of young people would miss out on a lot of important lessons, not to mention a lot of fun in the long run.
I coach a girls' team that, when I took it over three years ago, was regularly losing 15-0, 18-0, etc. to the high-ranking teams in our area. They hadn't yet entertained the idea that winning matches was a possibility. One thing was for sure, though...they wanted to learn to get better, and they sure as heck didn't want to be a rec team. Had it been up to you, I'm sure they would have been disbanded as a disservice to the other teams in our region, known for producing state champs.
Three years later, we still struggle against the top-ranked teams. We just lost last night to #3 ranked Wando...by a margin of 3-0 after a scoreless first half. Lucky? Maybe. But a proud moment of competition those girls wouldn't have had if they'd let themselves be run off the field by someone who wants to pass judgement on who is "worthy" of playing and who isn't. I hope the Wando girls aren't too disappointed at the level of "practice" we gave them. They're a fine team, I've always had a lot of respect for them, and I'd hate to be a burden.
My compliments, too, for the high level of sportsmanship we've always received from them, even when we were struggling most. I used to hate the vastly uneven games in our schedule, but then, I've never gotten good at anything except by getting my butt kicked by someone much better until I figured out how to keep up with them. If Lake City is willing to take their lumps, stick with it, and learn from every defeat, then it's not for anyone else to decide they can't...
Just like it's not for anyone to say it's time to stop a discussion just because we've heard the word from on high from "the infamous" and he's tired of it. I'd hate to see a good man let his "infamy" go to his head.
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ha, well said coach. I tried hard not to read this topic, but at 8 pages today, i decided to pick it up. First I must say, that it is quite impressive that a program has turned around in just 3 years from losing 15-0 to beating that team 3-0. I must say, my hat is off to you coach, and maybe its time you made a trek up to Lake City and worked a miracle there. (I truly mean it, my respect for your coaching has shot out of the roof)
Having said that, I must say that what is tiring to me of this topic is that eveyone gets on here and blasts teams who beat teams by wide margins. However...to my knowledge, none of those people that complain are the teams that are getting beat by 10+ goals. I will certainly say that my post was rash, and slightly satirical, but i think i didn't get my point across like i thought it in my head. My point was meant to say
"if the teams that are losing are truly upset, then they should play rec, there they can gain experience unlike any they will get from losing by double digits day in and day out." I don't mean to sound like I'm putting them down because they have to play rec. Most people know I'm not much of a soccer player myslelf. I played rec for 5 years, 2 years of club, and 1 year of jv before i quit. Where did I improve the most? rec...mainly because i was bad, and i just became less bad. And I have a feeling that this is the situation these players are in, and i think it would be more emotionally profitable as well as physically profitable for them to play in a league that is suited to their abilities.
I know a majority of you dissagree. But whatever your opinion is, remember, a majority of the people on this board probably dissagree with you too.
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"none of those people that complain are the teams that are getting beat by 10+ goals."
-benp
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for those of you who didn't want to read my lengthy post, know that i said
"to my knowledge" before what he said i said...
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Spoken there, sir, like a gentleman. Oh, but don't misread...we didn't win that game last night, Wando won 3-0...can't claim credit for beating them just yet--although we're still working on it! We still have a lot of work to do. Even so, I couldn't be prouder of my team and their progress.
The "miracle," as you call it, is theirs, not mine. I have seldom seen a group of young people with so much heart, character, and desire to become better. They bring out the best in me. The first request I got from them when I agreed to take the team was, "Push us." I have players who come to me individually after every game to ask, "What can I do better?" When we play well, they are proud of themselves but still recognize they need to get better; when we are inconsistent, they kick themselves much worse than I ever would because they are not willing to settle for low expectations.
I guess that's why I am so quick to their defense...they have earned my respect, and they are only a little confidence and hard work away from winning the respect of many more. Sure, we'd be better if we HAD a rec or club team feeding us (or even a JV team for that matter), but there's a lot to be said for coming up through the school of hard knocks. I still see the looks on their faces every time they accomplish something they didn't know they could...and I wouldn't have that taken away from them for anything.
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yea i should have put that part in there sorry for miss quoteing you benp
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Coach Chass: We were up at your place early this season and won our game 10-1. Your boys team faired little better. But I really believe that will change. I was really impressed with the level of participation. There must have been 18-20 kids on your team. Team morale was high and your players were obviously having fun. Your team will get better and better, and if you stay, could very well become a power in your region. If the kids are having fun and learn to love soccer, they will do the work necessary to develop their skills. You need to provide year round opportunity for them to play and develop. We have several girls on our team that drive two hours to Charleston twice a week to play on premier teams. I would love to have you coach my kids as I'm sure most parents would. Wins and losses are important, but not the most important. Through the years, rec club and school, my kids have endured losing seasons on bad teams with bad coaches and enjoyed winning seasons with good and bad coaches. They have learned and grown from all of it. Soccer is one of the best influences my children have had. My hat is off to you because I know you are doing things right in Moncks Corner!!!!
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side note.
Coach, you assume alot by saying "a good man let his infamy get to his head."
That makes it seem like i was once a good man (or..atleast a good kid)
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OldRef,
Thanks...that means a lot! We knew we were in for a run against your team that night...HH is not a team I wanted to face with my starting keeper in Colorado snowboarding and a starting defender in goal, where she'd never actually played in a match before. Talk about a trial by fire for her! All part of the twists of the game, though; you brought us a great team, and they did just what they were trained to do--I expected no less! I told the girls just to hang on, learn from every moment, keep their spirits up, and play 80 no matter what the scoreboard said, and they did just that.
My starting keep, of course, wound up in a Colorado hospital with a snowboarding concussion(hey, it's just a weekend trip, what could go wrong?)--took her a bit to get back steady. She took another accidental knee to the head against West Ashley, wound up seeing double for most of that game, and missed two more games in goal against Timberland and Stratford. Hey...what's a season without challenges?
My thanks to people like you for recognizing effort and love of the game even when the chips are down. Encouragement from other, well-established sources helps give our girls incentive to keep working, keep improving, and keep closing the gap. Thanks again, and best of luck to HH in the battle for Region VIII-AAAA! Looking forward to seeing the report from HH/Summerville on Friday--should be another awesome game, boys and girls!
Oh, and benp...call it a long shot...but I stand by that assumption... ;-)
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Coach Chass:
Great to see you have retained the attitude and morals you had as a child. It was my honor to coach with you in the past and I know you have left and will continue to leave such a positive impression on your players. Keep up the good work and the wins will come. I know your players will be winners in life because of the life lessons you teach them in your daily contact.
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There's no more to say about this, 28-0 speaks for itself.
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congratulations on your victory Lakewood!
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There should be more respect for the teams that play the game than has been displayed by Lakewood this year in its 2 games v. Lake City 1st game 20-0 and follow that with 28-0??? Lakewood coaches should read this: http://www.collegiatetimes.com/news/2/ARTICLE/5913/2005-10-20.html
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04striker.... great article.
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Honestly, what does everyone expect from Lakewood. They are from Sumter, I repeat Sumter. I'm actually surprised they have a decent team. I never thought I would use "Sumter" and "Soccer" in the same sentence. For those of you who don't know about Sumter (in all sports) they are a special breed. Just drive through that place and I rest my case. It's ok for me to talk about Sumter because I have relatives who live their.
P.S. How was the Gator classic.....I was going to go but my cousins tractor broke down. Maybe next year. Next year you guys should invite the Falcons (they won their rec. league this year) to play. They might be tuff competition for the tourney.
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Page 12! Can I get a page 12? Page 12 on another stupid subject....Going once....going twice...
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WELL IVE BEEN ON BOTH ENDS OF THIS DEAL AND WHEN UR LOSING U FEEL BAD BUT IN DEFENSE IVE BEEN BEAT BY DF 10-0 AND THEN IN THE SECOND MATCH LOST 2-1 IN PKS SO. NO REAL POINT BUT JUST A STORY THERE. BUT IVE ALSO PLAYED AGAINST STROM THURMOND WHERE WE KNEW WE WERE THE BETTER TEAM AND SO WE MADE IT WHERE WE HAD TO PASS THE BALL A CERTAIN AMOUNT BEFORE ATTACKING AND ALL AND EVEN THOUGH THAT MAKES A TEAMS CONFIDENCE GO DOWN TO ITS BETTER THEN RUNNING THE SCORE UP 28-0 AND ALL THAT SO BASICALLY THE LESSON NEEDS TO BE THAT ITS NOT FUN GETTING KILLED AND IS NOT THAT FUN KILLING TEAMS EITHER I THINK
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how about a period? ...just a suggestion.
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striker
i would suggest you do alittle research before you make some generalizations!
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No generalizations or research needed. I've been there many of times!!! Special breed.
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no the comment about sumter and soccer in the same sentence. it has not nearly been as bad as you think!
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you dont know **** about sumter anyways
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In 2003, Sumter held a record of 15-4-1, and an overall 18th spot in the massey rankings
and
In 2004, they were 4 spots higher with a 16-5-1 final record.
In 1981, they won their sole state championship in the sport (to my knowledge).
I've also overheard people talking while I've reffed a few cesa games, that the coach of one of the cesa teams was a former Sumter coach, who apparently did a pretty good job their, but I can't remember his name right off the top of my head.
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benp, you are up early this morning -- heading out to referee today?
Russell Shelley is probably the CESA coach you are referring to and after he left Sumter HS, Damon Hubert took over the Gamecocks' program. Current Greenville HS/CESA coach Nick Finotti was an assistant at SHS as well under Shelley.
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To continue the thread:
Friday night, Lake City played Wilson. Wilson was up 5 - 0 at the half. The whole second half was played using three touch soccer. Only players that had not yet scored this season were allowed to shoot. Halfway through the second half, with the score 9 - 0, Coach Harloff had a quiet word with one of the refs, and then had the scoreboard turned off, giving the ref the option of ending the game early if he wanted. Wilson spent the rest of the game trying to set up their senior girl for a goal. Some of the Lake City players realized what was going on, and marked her very tightly. After about 10 minutes of great effort by her and her teammates, she finally got off a shot to score. Even some of the Lake City players gave her high fives. Shortly after that, the ref ended the game. The sportsmanship on both sides was very evident after the game.
Coach Harloff and the Wilson team are a truly classy organization.
If any Lake City players see this, don't let this season end your soccer playing days. Stick with it. This spring, come out to club try-outs at the beach or in Florence. Keep playing through the summer and fall club season. There was some young talent evident on the field, keep working on it and the results will come.
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Yes, today was the first of the two-day amatuer state cup.
Advertisement:
Anyone who wants to find a place to play some competitive soccer after high school, or even if you are too old to play U18 your senior year, you should check out the amatuer leagues, I would say that the division 1 competition is better than high school, with mostly ex-college players, including some players that played college this fall, and are seniors.
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where is this being held?
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benp, ancient history but Sumter won the state in 1975 beating BC in the finals, were in the state semi's in 1974.
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quote:
Originally posted by benp:
Yes, today was the first of the two-day amatuer state cup.
Advertisement:
Anyone who wants to find a place to play some competitive soccer after high school, or even if you are too old to play U18 your senior year, you should check out the amatuer leagues, I would say that the division 1 competition is better than high school, with mostly ex-college players, including some players that played college this fall, and are seniors.
yes, where is this
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The Central leagues website is Adult Amateur Central League There are contact lists on there if you need more information that you can't find on the site. But basically most people just put together a team and play in one of the 3 divisions, but individuals can join teams as well. I know Airport had a bunch of their guys playing on a team this fall, and there are alot of coaches out there playing D1.
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And the cup was being held at Crooked Creek Park. Lots of familiar faces today, the championship was won by a team with all three stoner brothers, jimmy monroe, ryan sacko, eric (sounds like coach K), Ryan Deter, Mark Weston, David Stovall, and other high school stars, and college players.
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I don't think its bad sportsmanship because they have had there fair share of beatings on them seems to me they dont play alot of defense. With 37 goals scored against them. Taking out the Lake City Games they really dont beat anyone else that badly. If you dont consider the Lake City Games they have 75 goals for them and 37 goals against them. Not to good dont you think.
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I think that that running up the score that much is unsportsmanlike behavior, from the players running it up and the coach that allowed it to keep going. In a game I saw recently, I admired the coach, the team they were playing was not very good, but instead of running up the score, after 10-0, the coach changed the field, put his defense in as forwards and moved all his forwards back to defense, and basically just played keep away the last 30 mins of the game. Now, I do agree that high school soccer is supposed to be competetive, but it should also be fun for both teams.
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