SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Girls Varsity Soccer Does West Ashley have to forfeit?

I know that this argument could go on until the end of time but once again the rules need to be reviewed and enforced. There are 100s of high schools in the state with 1000s of players. If we use the philosophy of interpretation of the rules and discretion on an individual basis that has been suggested, then I'm afraid that every high school game played will be under review. There are rules for every sport clearly defined in the league handbook. Every coach has access to these rules and should know them, especially where player elgibility is concerned. I feel sorry for everyone involved as there will be no winners. The players on both teams should feel proud that they both made it to the championship and no one can take that away from them. The both had very successful seasons!

West Ashley Seeks Majority Ruling in Appeal
Philip Bowman, The Post-Courier (Charleston)

Very interesting!!! Since there is no more Lowcountry representation than there is, it could work against WA.

Wow!!! I go away for a couple of days vacation and the whole high school soccer scene is turned upside down with West Ashley getting stripped of its' state championship. Now I wish I would have had a laptop around to check into the board, because the part of S.C. I was in never had a mention of this happening in the local paper.

After going through the numerous posts about the situation it certainly appears that the West Ashley coaches neglected some basic rules and ultimately its' entire community, most importantly the girls of that varsity team, are paying the price of "cheating". I use that word loosely, because I can see where the intent of Coach McNeely's actions lie, but to blatantly ignore and undermine the other teams involved with high school athletics was both naieve and foolish.

Are the JV players to blame, NO. Are the varsity players to blane, NO. Are the coaches to blame, YES. Is the administration to blame, YES. So, that's a lack of institutional control in my book and they deserve to have to forfeit the title in my eyes. Rules are rules and there is very little "interpretation" needed in most matters and this one is no different.

In fact, my notion is that in his mind he may have thought that if he could pull this off on the biggest stage of the year that leaves me to wonder what other actions he has pulled off in years past! After all, he's been tucked away west of the Ashley River for years with little oversight of his practices and coaching principles and this might be just the tip of the iceberg for onlookers like me. Could West Ashley be the new "renegades" of high school athletics? Maybe the only people that can answer that are those located between Highways 17 and 61 and bounded by the 526 Overpass.

The state of S.C. witnessed this same sort of black eye with boys basketball this past winter and it cost C.A. Johnson a region title and top spot in the playoffs. I read earlier "Wayne's" comment about the inner city school against the other types of schools, this would surely be portrayed by those that don't have a clue about soccer playing the race card. Like it or not, the decision Mr. Matthews made is a hard line and correct ruling!

My question is;Why didn't someone from West Ashley pick up the phone and contact the SCHSL and ask underwhat circumstances would 8th grade JV players be allowed to sit on the bench? They would have recieved the SCHSL interpretation on the front end and saved everyone much heartache.

I know this is monday morning quarterbacking,but if I'm in the state finals I don't risk anything.Make the call and be sure.

1.) Rules exist for a reason, whatever the reason is, and we must abide by existing rules. No one truely feel that anything sinister or clandestine occured here, but the existing rule was broken. The rule has a clear explanation of the consequences of the infraction whether intentional or not.

2.) The sad thing here is when it occured. State championships are things to be earned on the field and not lost or gained off the field.

3.) We can not pick and choose which rules we or our student athletes follow. Just because it was the state championship game should not change the interpretation or the forfiet. Life is full of hard lessons and though unintentional, adults made a mistake and some young future adults have to live with the consequences. What are we teaching them if we bend and contort the rule to fit what one side of the argument wants which is to keep their state championship?

4.) For the athletic director and the coach and the players at Mauldin to be willing to accept a state championship that they ALL know they did not earn on the field and ALL know that these 2 8th graders had nothing to do with the outcome of the game, truely is an embarrasing thought. Can you hear the explainations that they would have to give some years down the line to their children as to how mommy won the state championship on a technicality and actually lost the game 3-2? Will they really PROUDLY wear their state championship ring or necklace or whatever award is given to the winners?

5.) What ought to happen is that WEST ASHLEY is made to forfiet the crown and state title, MAULDIN should show some athletic integrity and decline to accept the trophy and the title, and the SCHSL declares the AAAA title vacant and there is no state champion this year

I have no affiliation with either school and have no daughters let alone none that play soccer, only sons that play. I have read these empassioned lines and can only come to these conclusions.

6.) Lastly, there seems to be enough sentiment here to suggest that the rule is flawed and this should serve as a reason to look at this rule closer and consider changes so that this unfortunate lesson does not have to be learned again. Self inspection and change, revision and modification are a sign of a mature society. If nothing else this rule may need to be cleaned up and a better interpretion of what a participant really is may be necessary. Different punishment may be appropriate as to "participates" in the game while standing on the sideline versus
actually plays and participates on the field in the actual game.

Lets look at this from another perspective using deductive reasoning, shall we? What is the absolute worst the high school league could do to West Ashley? My assumption (scary word) would be to take away the title. What is the worst punishment used for? The worst crime. Did West Ashley commit the most hanus crime? No. We all agree they did not follow the written rule, I just don't see how the punishment fits the crime. Drew should run some laps or have to do some push ups. That would be fair. Besides, what are we teaching our kids? The last thing I want to see is my girl monkey stomp the annoying kid next door for not allowing her onto the school bus first.

...or me for using a preposition to finish a sentence.

In my long post I forgot to ask, has anyone spoken with Coach McNeely about this situation or has he perhaps addressed the forfeit on this board? Just wondering, because I don't recollect seeing his name on here, but of course that doesn't mean anything since most people are using screen names.

I would like to take exception to those of you who feel that the intended purpose of a rule and the intent of someone who may have violated the rule are irrelevant.

If you read the SCHSL handbook, there are several places where they cite examples to clarify the intent of a rule. The reason is that it is impossible to take into account every possible eventuality - you do the best you can and then adjudicate the cases you didn't anticipate.

I am reminded of the fable of Procrustus, an early forerunner of Norman Bates. Procrustus ran an Inn, and if you were too small for the bed, he'd put you on a rack and stretch you to fit. Or if you were too long, he'd chop off whatever hung over, so everyone in the end fit perfectly.

I agree with those of you who feel forcing WA to forfeit the championship is too harsh. The rule as it stands is a good one - but it wasn't handed down from the mountain.