SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Girls Varsity Soccer Poverty, Affluence, and Soccer Success

...maybe a by-law in there somewhere.

[Preface: I'm actually glad that some folks want to debate something -- although it's sometimes weird and wonderful to see who decides to take what position. In any case, thanks.]

>>[Whiskey & Easy] B-C and its yearly competitive program(s) are to be seen as model examples. I would offer any Heise a job as my JV coach anyday. That Smith girl, too.<<

I'm sure that they'd be honored...but doubt that they'd consider themselves worthy.

>>B-C and its yearly competitive program(s) are to be seen as model examples. I would offer any Heise a job as my JV coach anyday. That Smith girl, too.

[i]>>B-C and its yearly competitive program(s) are to be seen as model examples.<<

If you keep waiting, you won't accomplish much in the meantime, will you?

>>If clubs don't start from scratch and expand, how do they get started? Surely they do not just appear with a rec team, 4 classics, and a challenge.<<

You missed the part about "These guys had to..." If this still isn't clear, think of it this way -- how many youth soccer clubs have you personally started to help your high school program and then spent an enormous amount of time making sure that kids that normally wouldn't play soccer could and would?

Of course, you're not a bad guy for not having done so -- you've got ASA and CESA -- I'm just noting that what they did goes above and beyond.

>>Large areas of population allow for greater chances of common ideas...for example club soccer. These large amounts of common interest backed by man power allow for such ideas to come to fruition. CESA didn't exactly start in Williamston, and MLS doesn't have a team in Barnwell. With more people, there are more opportunities. More opportunities create competition. Competition drives prices down. Lower prices allow for lower economic groups to become involved via more affordable options, club scholarships, or donating fellow parents.<<

I understand; you're stating that it's easier for club soccer to exist within a densely populated area than a sparsely populated one. Understood; can't argue the point. Of course, these guys at various times have had two Lexington select clubs, two Lexington recreation clubs, CSC, CFC, NECSA, and all sorts of recreation programs that they could have just sat back and let handle it. Instead, they built a club and program to address their need.

>>[anonymousjoe] (BC, which is not a poverty stricken area of Columbia by any means, go two blocks down the road and you have multi million dollar frat houses)<<

I've had to allow this one to reverberate in my mind just a bit. But now that I think about it you could not be more correct. Let's ignore the poverty index rankings and everything else and focus on whether there are multi-million dollar structures down the road from an area.

Sigh...

>>[Whiskey & Easy] I feel a long one coming from Chico...probably graphs and pie charts......maybe a by-law in there somewhere.<<

I know that I could have gone on multiple message topics, in multiple threads, and disparaged a bunch of children as future Dairy Queen workers...perhaps using graphs and pie charts...but it just didn't seem right.

My 2 cents on this topic would be this.... which other sports consider their "non-high school" counterpart as superior to the high school game.

For instance....
Football- there is no other football once you enter high school

Basketball- there is AAU... but players do not jump from "AAU to college"... also, you never hear of the AAU team a player came from when he is being recruited... you always hear about his high school...

Baseball- there is Legion ball... however, the same points from basketball pertain to baseball...

Soccer- soccer is the only sport where club is widely considered more competitive than high school... in other sports, coaches and recruiters consider the most competitive games the high school games- a place where it is essentially free to play with the exception of minor physical and insurance fees.

If soccer (in particular US soccer) wants to avoid this label, then college and National Team coaches need to put less emphasis on club and more on high school.

>>[Chapindad] Some of BC's best players play for or played for CSC or NECSA, so I am having a hard time giving CRSA all the credit for BC's success.<<

Who the heck took over Chapindad's account? Who is this? The last time I saw, Chapindad was making selected hit and runs onto this message board but never answering any questions. Dude...is that really you? Are things so lonely over there? [Just kidding -- great to see ya! ]

In any case, once again you're using the strawman fallacy...attributing a position to me that I never took. I never said "all" of anyone's success was attributable to a single entity. You actually quoted what I did say "...with CRSA's help..."

But to get to the meat of your contention, I contend that CRSA does more than any other Columbia club to target kids who normally wouldn't play soccer. The Heise's have posted a bit on what they've done as have others. This builds the foundation needed for other clubs to pick up those kids who through some combination of talent and training are able to take their game to the challenge and premier level. Perhaps you could post a refutation to this contention giving as examples club-wide programs that target underserved kids that other clubs are have.

>>[TVOR] If soccer (in particular US soccer) wants to avoid this label, then college and National Team coaches need to put less emphasis on club and more on high school.<<

I know that you know this...but coaches at the next level are going to put emphasis on the best possible mechanism to identify and select players that might play at that next level. If high schools want to be taken more seriously as a potential selection mechanism, then they need to significantly improve the quality of the product.

How? Well, one way would be to go into the school system and get first-graders playing. One way to do that is in conjunction with youth soccer clubs. But there might be a million other ways. In the end, however, it's pretty much like the USSF "pyramid" describes -- if you get enough kids playing recreation and then offer the right training, the higher levels of competition will take care of itself.

I'd personally love to see more high school coaches get involved with trying to increase the penetration of soccer to all of the youth in their area. I know that a lot of high school coaches put a lot of time into working with clubs; I'd just like to see the high school coaches and clubs work together to figure out how to get ever more kids playing the sport.

Volleyball is a similar dynamic as soccer, FYI. For what that is worth.

Chico-
My point was more along these lines....

If the soccer community continues to feel that the club soccer system (which costs significant money) is the best way to identify good players, then soccer will continue to be labeled as more of an "affluent" sport.