SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Girls Varsity Soccer Poverty, Affluence, and Soccer Success

We're interested, we're interested....

Bottom line, what do we do to help even the playing field. I have always felt that a wonderful group of players gets left behind in soccer in light of the fact that club soccer is the true base from which colleges recruit.

Let me add two things then:

(1) The amount any school spends per pupil is primarily a reflection of teacher salary as that relates to student-teacher class ratios. In high poverty schools, many students qualify for remedial courses (I am trying to keep the langauge simple; it varies a bit technically on some of this) that are federally funded, which carries restrictions on class size. That said, our impoverished schools show high $$$ spent per pupil because many of the students are in small classes mandated by law, while more affluent schools have twice the number of students per class. That dynamic can effectively cut per pupil spending numbers in half or even 2/3s!

(2) If we look closely at which schools are successful at soccer, three factors are extremely significant:

(a) Affluence (see the beginning of this topic)
(b) Open enrollment (the huge advantage of private schools, and some public schools)
(c) Participation by players with club experience

If we wish to level the playing field (and we should), open enrollment issues and advantages enjoyed by private schools can be addressed easily by the HSL and concerned ADs. Make everyone play by the same rules. Simple enough. For example, classify all schools with open enrollment as AAAA. Problem (b) solved.

(a) and (c) are SOCIAL issues. Chico has weighed in on this issue before. In the bigger scheme of things this soccer issue parallels academic success, and my experience is that we really don't care in our society that those in poverty have huge disadvantages. I would love to be proven wrong. Will clubs and communities work together to encourage all children to play soccer by offering scholarships? That is a start. But high school soccer programs themselves need better money and better field, equipment, etc, and we need to continue to increase the professional level of coaching at the high school level.

Since (a) and (c) take $$$, it will be interesting if we ever make any effort to level the playing field.

Fascinating stuff. Several completely opinion-based comments. As noted, the spending in higher poverty schools on a per-pupil basis is much higher and as noted, a primary reason is lower student-teacher ratios as mandated by governmental fiat. Why is this mandated? Because "the answer" to lower student achievement was decided years ago to be smaller classes. Of course, only once we (and I mean "we" as both individual taxpayers and society in general) spent enormous amounts pursuing this goal was it discovered that the problem is actually much more complex than that. Some (not all) of the people so ardently pursuing "parental choice" in schools do so because of this and other fiascos that have convinced them that we can continue to pour almost infinite amounts into our schools without substantial return. Looking at the amounts spent on education with a corresponding poor rate of return on results tends to be disheartening.

How does this relate to soccer? I have contended for some time that you can't blame high schools for not penetrating underserved communities; instead, local youth soccer clubs must shoulder the responsibility for this. Some people think that the answer to increasing the penetration of soccer into underserved communities is simple -- just lower club and even team fees to zero. However, the cost associated with club soccer in my experience is not typically the greatest barrier to participation. When you talk about 5-6 year old kids, they need a high level of parental support -- and in many underserved communities this is very difficult for two (or one) working parent/guardian to achieve. So techniques have to be created, and more importantly, executed, that augment and supplement this issue. And this is just one of the many issues.

I have greater faith in clubs doing this than I do governmental agencies fixing schools. I believe clubs have a vested interest because increasing its membership base will increase the long-term competitiveness of the club. The trouble is that most clubs only think about appeasing their existing customers instead of thinking about offering the best possible services to future customers.

I would like to believe that the SCYSA, which has as a mission to develop and promote youth soccer to all South Carolina youth, would take the lead in this. However, it doesn't appear as if they are interested. (Note: In their defense, I'm sure that they have a ton of issues with which they have to deal.) Therefore, it's going to be up to several clubs, or even partnerships/alliances of clubs, to invest the time, energy, and money into making this happen.

I believe that the return for clubs willing to do this is a new level of competitiveness in the long-term. And of course, the return for more of our youth involved in athletics has been well documented.

Again -- great subject -- thank you tremendously for raising it.

I don't want to overwhelm the soccer discussion with education discussions, but Chico is correct. The problems and solutions of the education debate are extremely complex. Also, government and bureaucracy mare NOT the answers; however, educators could make many appropriate changes if allowed to run the schools. Now back to soccer.

I believe sports in general and soccer specifically are wonderful for young people, especially females. And I also concur that it is a community/society issue that is much bigger than schools. I have recently taught a college soccer player from England who is baffled by the American connection between school and sport that simply isn't in England. Club soccer is a community dynamic that could offer great benefits to young athletes; as a result, high school soccer would benefit greatly as well.

Two issues need to be addressed. (1) HSL should act now on all issues that would level the playing field (those issues are throughout this message board so I won't reharsh). (2) Clubs can take the initiative to broaden access to club soccer while also promoting to the wider community how these clubs are key resources for that community's children.

sounds like your AD should be fired and your parents should not support such an imbecile!

Do you have proof of this are you just a high school kid shooting off at the mouth at "supposed" things going on?

A comment on dollars per pupil--this is purely a school size issue. Wando has the least money per pupil and Lincoln has the most. Economies of scale: the cost of administration, building upkeep, etc. is higher per pupil when there are very few students and lower when there are many. The "comparable schools" listed by ccsoccerfan are all 3A or bigger. Also, as a failing school three years ago Lincoln has received a lot of state help which inflates these numbers with several extra administrative/specialist positions. The small size and academic hurdles have only been other roadblocks we have had to overcome to be successful--Not only have we been successful on the field, but we have also demonstrated success in the classroom so that we have gone from an "unsatisfactory" rating to "good."

While I am discussing the adversity my team has faced I will bring up a sensitive subject. The racial makeup of my team is unique to any other team we have played in the state, and along with that come some expectations by others which while perhaps unintentional have been unfair. Some coaches and athletic directors have sent clear signals when our team leaves the bus by practically rushing to me to let me know that soccer is a clean game and there will be no tolerance of fouls or rough play--the signal is that my players must be "thugs" that cannot play the game as it should be played. This signal has also come from the predominantly white officiating. While it is hard for a coach to objectively comment on refereeing, over the season it has appeared to me that when my player and a white player are side by side, if the white player falls it is usually a foul and if my player falls it usually isn't. As our team has succeeded and gotten recognition this problem has lessened, but it is another challenge that my team has overcome that most teams do not have to face.

At any rate, my team has earned everything they achieved and I am extremely proud of them.

Thannk you, Lincoln Coach. Excellent contribution to the discussion. You are accurate on your assessment of cost per pupil, as I tried to note earlier. The raw number is highly misleading.

Your school's and team's success are far more than any rating or number. Thanks for your hard work, and let's hope that some day we may all have the racial problems behind us.

This thread may rate as one of the top 10 of the year. Very informative and classy!