SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP What College Soccer Coaches Say About ODP

FYI...pulled this article from a Georgia message board.
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What College Soccer Coaches Say About ODP

Those on top of the mountain didn't fall there - Marcus Washling

The USYSA Olympic Development Program (ODP) was established to identify prospects for the US
National Teams. Unfortunately, ODP is often a topic of controversy within the soccer community. It is frequently criticized by it's participants as too expensive and too political. The word 'development' seems to be misleading. Should youth soccer players participate in ODP? Many soccer families question that ODP is much of a factor in player development. High-level club play, upper-level tournament competition, summer camps and high school participation are mentioned as alternate and possibly superior routes to player development.

To learn more about how ODP is perceived at the college level, surveys were mailed to over 800 college coaches. (NCAA I, II, III men programs, NCAA I, II, III women programs, NAIA, NJCAA)
The survey was designed to answer some basic questions about ODP and player development.

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Do college coaches recommend that players tryout for ODP'?
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Do college coaches take an active part in ODP?
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Does seeing 'ODP State Team' on a player resume really make any difference to a college coach?
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Where does high school soccer fit?
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What youth soccer activities do college coaches recommend?

Completed surveys were returned by coaches from 189 men's and women's collegiate programs at all competitive levels. The survey data were statistically analyzed. Unless noted, there were no significant differences between coaches of men's vs. women's programs or between coaches of NCAA 1 vs. other programs.

Olympic Development-Do Coaches Care?
A majority of college coaches supported the ODP process. Overall, 77% of the coaches surveyed (94% of NCAA I men's and 84% of NCAA I women's coaches) recommended that players tryout for ODP. Although there were some coaches who didn't care whether or not a player participated, not a single coach indicated that he/she would discourage tryout participation. Over 60% of the coaches surveyed have assisted with state ODP events. NCAA I coaches are significantly more involved in ODP than coaches from other divisions. Results from the men's NCAA I coaches showed that 89% had worked with ODP at the state level and 72% at the regional level. Women's NCAA I coaches had a 91% involvement at the state level and 66% at the regional level. In addition, those coaches who have not participated in ODP appear to almost universals accept the program.

When it comes to recruiting preferences, 89% of 'the NCAA I coaches surveyed are more serious about recruiting a player who has made the ODP state team than a player who has not. About 20% of the coaches surveyed said that ODP state team credentials make no difference in their perception of players. No coach said that being rostered on a ODP state team was a liability. The coaches were asked to suggest activities for youth who want to play for their college.

While many college coaches use ODP as a means of evaluating and identifying prospective players, it apparently is not their first or even their second choice for player development. The great majority of coaches (77%) indicated that playing on a competitive club team should be a player's first priority, some (13%) indicated that playing on a Snickers National Youth Challenge Cup (SNYCC) champion club team should receive the most emphasis while only a relatively few (5%) indicated that playing ODP was most valuable.

High School and Club Soccer-How Do They Fit?
According to most coaches answering the survey, quality of today's high school programs is highly variable and has not reached the competitive level of ODP or club soccer. This limits the usefulness of high school soccer for player development and impacts college coaches' opinions on high school participation. High school soccer programs were viewed as 'extremely helpful' by 45% of NAIA, NCAA II/III and NJCAA coaches. But only 6% of men's and 16% of women's NCAA I coaches agreed. Coaches did not rank high school soccer as a priority (only 3% recommended high school as one of their top three activities for youth players). Many did indicate that playing soccer anytime, anywhere is preferable to not playing at all. In this context, high school soccer can be seen as "somewhat helpful." On the opposite end of the spectrum, 11% of men's and 16% of women's NCAA I coaches felt that high school soccer was "not helpful'.

It appears that club teams, which compete in top leagues and tournaments are viewed by college coaches as better than ODP for player development. Club teams can accommodate more players as well as provide more competition with well-matched opponents. Bret Simon of Creighton's NCAA I men's program suggested that youth who want to play at the highest level: "Train at an intense level with the best teams, teammates and coaches available, whether that be in a club, ODP or high school setting - no camp, tournament or overseas trip can make up for years of daily play." NAIA coach, Bill Koeppen, emphasized the need to "Prepare for the physical demands of the college game-strength and power (lifting weights) and explosiveness in first step (speed training)." Typically, coaches recommend joining a strong club team, competing in high-level leagues and tournaments and participating in ODP. Then, they focus their personal recruiting efforts using the results of ODP and the high-level tournaments, especially the SNYCC.

Advice to Players-Aim High, Play Hard & Don't Quit!
A previous survey (What College Soccer Coaches Say About Recruiting) indicated that coaches feel that that players need to develop a more accurate perspective of their own playing ability. The advice most coaches offered in this current survey is consistent - players should play at the highest level at which they are capable. Players who are selected for their state ODP team are recognized by evaluators as achieving a level above the rest. Coaches find regional and national level ODP recognition even more impressive. But, if you tryout for ODP and are not selected, don't quit. Find a good club team and work hard to stand out. Most college coaches want players who have been seriously involved with youth soccer and are self-motivated. If you live in an area that lacks qualified coaches, you can attend soccer skills camps to supplement your personal development You might even consider a college camp where coaches can evaluate your level of play. Don't ignore the importance of good grades, leadership activities and community service during your high school years since they are also factors that colleges will consider.

What Next?
The controversy surrounding ODP is not likely to go away anytime soon. ODP may be expensive, overly political and may not do enough to develop players. But, these criticisms should not prevent players from participating. ODP volunteers and coaches should accept the complaints as a challenge to improve the effectiveness and reduce the cost of ODP. Players need to accept that the word "development" in ODP refers to our national teams, not to individual players.
But, those who aspire to a level above youth soccer programs should participate in ODP simply because it is current - the most direct route for identifying talent for BOTH our colleges and US National teams.

From CollegeInfo- Kent and Ramona Barber
1001 Woodland Pk. Dr., Weft Des Moines, IA 50266

A direct quote from a Div I coach I was associated with :
"ODP is most effective for players who are not on real good club teams. If the player is getting seen at the national tournaments, then they do need to worry about doing ODP also". On the other side of the coin, if a player needs more exposure than their club team is getting them, then ODP does give them a second avenue of being seen by the college coaches who work for the ODP programs.

Great analysis of ODP and the best information I have ever seen for a young person wanting to play at the college level. Thanks to both of you.

Mark, I've left you a private message. Click on "my profile" to receive.

I don't know, when the coaches made their comments, if they were aware that ODP functions very differently from state to state. The coaches probably don't see that part of ODP. They are just trainers once the team is selected. In SC for instance it is very political and many very good players do not consider it for that reason. Other players don't have the funds. I know that my child receives e-mails all the time to come to ODP tryouts. I saw that an initial one was $25, then another one for a 'first cut' was $50.... ($50 for a tryout???) then a 2 day weekend tournament was $225. This does not include other training expenses, etc. A brief ODP season could cost $1000. I know that premier play is expensive too, but you get more exposure for your money.
I have also heard that sometimes the better ODP players do not get substantial play time because the team numbers are too large and because all the guys gotta play. That doesn't sound good for a guy/gal who works his/her butt off in hopes to be seen a substantial amount of time at ODP tournaments.
On the other hand, training and playing at a high level on a premier team, with a max. of 18 players, you will see a lot of play time in order that the colleges can evaluate you. Another advantage to premier play is that it involves constant games and tournaments, especially if your team stays together in the spring on a limited basis, along with HS ball. ODP involves fewer games. I even heard that Berson may try to put together a special premier camp of many of the East premier league teams this summer. That would be a great way for the players on those teams to be evaluated and seen by the southern college coaches, who would surely flock to that kind of camp.

There is an interesting point here regarding "player development".

Club teams are better at "developing players" because they train 2-3 times a week, play more games, etc. ODP is a once a month thing typically, so there is no way they can try to develop players, except in minor tactical areas.

But....where do the College coaches scout players is possibly more important than where they say the best development comes from. All ODP players will almost certainly get their development from their club coaches. ODP is an addition opportunity, on top of club.

Regarding recruitment, I believe ODP is benchmark (just like an SAT score), for College coaches to narrow down the players they want to look at. They get hundreds of letters I'm sure asking them to look at a player.

From an exposure perpsective, very few club players (exceptions GFC Black U18 #9 ranked Nationally, Aiken Fire U17 #49 ranked Nationally), can expect any College coaches to watch them more than once a season, if they're lucky. U17/U18 ODP players at Regionals WILL be looked at by some College coaches.

ODP is expensive, no doubt. However, rosters never amount to more than 18 (same as club), and usually the player standard is well above typical club team standard. In South Carolina, there are very few "Competitive" teams in Region III.

From experience South Carolina 1987 ODP has been a good thing for my Son. He has played with very good players and this team last year made the South East regional Championship game, which was a great experience for all those Boys. I expect at least five - six of that team will recieve some scholarship money.

ODP is not for everyone due to cost, etc. It is a great opportunity for players not on a Nationally ranked team to show their ability to College coaches.

ODP may be ok for the 50% of quality players who can afford the expense. The other 50% of quality players cannot get by the political selection process or the expenses. -$50 for a tryout??-
If ODP were less costly and less political, you would have the majority (80 to 85%) of quality players, instead of 50%. I have seen pure political examples where ODP coaches picked their own sons for their own team. I have seen other players that can't make their club's A team, yet they are selected for ODP. If you have the money you will make the team. Maybe this comes from the political, good-old boy system promoted by SCYSA. Club ball still allows the best exposure for kids considering college ball. They usually play in the top national tournaments - Raleigh Shootout, Tampa Sun Bowl, Jefferson Cup, Atlanta Cup, Disney Showcase.

In the last couple of years the ODP coaches have been College coaches and therefore the Parents selecting kids thing is something which I've never seen. I think the Politics has really reduced in recent years as these College coaches have come on board.

Club ball is great but how many SC players were in the Disney showcase ? I think it was none at the U17-U18 level. All the tournaments you mentioned are tough to get into. I don't think many SC players (except for the elite teams - which I agree are getting exposure) could get into them.

Most people here know about my feelings for the orgizational skills of SCYSA. But ODP has been good for my daughter. She gets to play with a lot of great players throughout the state, which can create than one super team everyone whines about on here. And she is exposed to a lot of coaches. Her current coach is with Charleston Southern and they had lots of coaches at the regional camp watching the players. Of course that is my beef in that the ODP structure is so disorganized that the team was really never given a chance to compete at regions and therefore not many coaches came to the SC games except when they did play a well established state like Texas or Florida...

Later

Chapin,
Thats great to hear she got some exposure in ODP.
I think ODP maybe can help girls more so than boys. And I know there has been a lot of bashing of SCYSA for a suspect committment to excellence by ODP. But, I imagine that it is same in many other states. It is hard to focus on so many levels of soccer and make sure that everyone is happy with the levels of play offered. I know in Va., NC, Fla. that their U15 to U19 club season is in the spring, so they probably cannot field great ODP teams. It is easier for a player in SC to miss a high school game in the spring for an ODP game or tournament.(There arent that many anyway). There are so many elite teams in Ga., NC, Fla. that I doubt too many players play ODP. That may account for some of the recent 'success' that someone mentioned by a few ODP SC teams. I have to agree that ODP is more of a social status thing at least in this state. I would like to see more SCYSA support for the premier teams in SC by possibly offering assistance with high level training/instruction programs, sponsor high-level tournaments in SC and even recognize the premier teams on their website. All other teams/leagues/programs are referenced there.

Actually Florida, Georgia and NC all put together excellent ODP Boys teams. These are the States whose players dominate Region tournaments and Region teams. I think Florida had 8 region players and NC had 4 on the Roster which represented Region 3 in California. This is out of 18 and there were more in the Pool.

In 2002 Florida played NC for the Championship at Regionals.

In 2003 Florida had both their teams in the semi-finals (they split their large group of players into Jan-Jun and Jul-Dec Birthdays. South Carolina (who beat NC in sub-Regionals and North Texas at regionals) and South Texas were the other two in the last four. There were a lot of outstanding players and all the States were pretty tough.

In other States ODP is pretty well respected, perhaps more so, than in SC.

Also, as I think I previously noted. There are lots of College coaches at Regional Camp and this is what the original post was about.

There are usually 12 stacked rosters from the SE USA States in Alabama in July. It makes a lot of sense for these coaches to come along and see the talent pool.

>> [Chopper] Club ball is great but how many SC players were in the Disney showcase ? I think it was none at the U17-U18 level.<<

I think this will prove your overall point about how few SC players were at Disney. 2 teams from SC were there; 16 teams from NC were there; 13 teams from GA were there.

MPSC Ice U-18G and SGS Santoz U-14B teams went to Disney.

I know of two SC U-14 girls that went; one plays for Charlotte and the other guested with a team from Massachusetts.

>> [4soccer] ODP may be ok for the 50% of quality players who can afford the expense. The other 50% of quality players cannot get by the political selection process or the expenses. -$50 for a tryout??-
If ODP were less costly and less political, you would have the majority [80 to 85%] of quality players, instead of 50%. I have seen pure political examples where ODP coaches picked their own sons for their own team. I have seen other players that can't make their club's A team, yet they are selected for ODP. If you have the money you will make the team. Maybe this comes from the political, good-old boy system promoted by SCYSA. <<

I know I'll get in trouble for defending SCYSA and ODP; but I know lots of people who have money who had children that didn't make the team in the two years in which I've had a child involved. Not just a few -- a lot. So it's hard to believe that money is the only qualifying factor.

In terms of the value of the program given the expense, I don't know how to answer that other than it comes down to an individual family choice. I haven't seen where the SCYSA gouges anyone on pricing. The $50 tryout fee included 4-6 hours of evaluation, two jerseys, and high-level coaches who traveled to get there -- so I didn't think it was outrageous -- but I recognize this is a value judgment.

In terms of the process being "political" -- again, I haven't seen it. Have I seen questionable selections? Sure -- a few -- but never among the top 1/3 or so of the players selected -- and only once among the second 1/3 of players selected [again, only in my experience]. Most of the heated discussion and argument I've heard is around the bottom 1/3 of players selected -- and given that the point is to select a national team, I'm not sure how much it really matters.

Are there aberrations such as you note [e.g., parents selecting children, B team players instead of A team players]? I've not seen them, but I'm not going to stand here and say any program this large is perfect. Just because I haven't seen them doesn't mean that they don't exist. But at the same time, I'm not sure you define a program such as this from one-off incidences.

Now, as to the assertion that only the best 50% or so of players try out -- again, in my very limited experience of two years, I haven't seen it. I've had a child playing club on challenge level teams now for 5 years, and so I'm pretty familiar with the players within +-1 year of her age, and can tell you that other than 2-3 players from one team that has a coach that reportedly [note: I have no first-hand knowledge of this -- it's just a rumor] discourages the players from playing ODP, I see the best players at the tryouts. But as I've noted repeatedly, my experience is limited.

Let's imagine for a second that it is true that only the best 50% try out. You note two reasons for this: politics and money. I haven't seen politics as an issue; and if it's money, then it seems to me that those that care about highly competitive SC soccer should be contributing to a "scholarship" fund that would allow the SCYSA to have players come into the program who can't afford it. If you can convince me of this I'll sign up to contribute -- but first you're going to have to explain to me that parents who care enough to spend money on challenge level soccer and to spend their time supporting their children doing this make the decision that they can't afford ODP. Again -- I understand a parent/player deciding ODP doesn't provide value given their personal goals and situation -- I just have some trouble with affordability given the parents that constitute the potential pool from which to draw ODP candidate players.

Now -- with all of this said -- I do think that there are very legitimate issues that are raised about ODP -- but they aren't administrative, they are strategic. People I respect tell me that we don't put enough players into the region or national teams [note: I've had the pleasure of seeing several regional, and one national, player practice and play for the last few months and can tell you that there's nothing political about how skilled they are.] People [and I know you have noted this as well] say that we sometimes have too many players on teams, or that ODP teams don't practice enough, or things like that. I think that those may very well be legitimate issues and worthy of deeper analysis and discussion. I'm just not seeing the same things you are in terms of some of this.

I still believe that the college coaches realize that the ODP selection process involves more politics than high level club selection process.
But it all comes down to a choice- if you are on a good challenge or premier team (i.e. St. Giles Celtic, CSC Burn 87, GFC 85) that travels to top tournaments then you will receive substantial exposure. If you are on a decent challenge team that can get accepted to top tournaments and you play ODP, then you will receive substantial exposure. But I also still believe that the high costs and politics of ODP keep some of the top players from considering ODP.

chapindad--

the exposaure that you daughter is getting is great, but there some of the best players in the state do not try out, because most people think of odp as not a big deal in SC. because of the reputation of odp in SC, a lot of good players do not come to tryout for the team. ALSO the cost can be a problem. if some of the better players in the state would try out and make a better rep for sc odp, then other good players in the state would try out. there's always an issue of having players who arent at the highest level that still make the team.

We must not forget that there usually is only a few "top notch" teams in an age group that can go to the major tournaments to get exposure. Everyone cannot get on these teams. Take a team like the Aiken team, St. Giles Celtic, or GFC U18. You might have a really good player that can't crack one of these teams due to geography, talent, or even politics. The politics don't start at the ODP level. Club politics can be just as bad.

observer1121 -

I agree with you completely. My daughter might not even make the team if all the best players for her age group came out to play. That is why we are considered a joke at the regionals. I still have hope that this is the year for us to make a dent. My daughter feels and shows great pride playing for SC at the camp and seeing that pride is what will keep me in the game as long as I can afford it.

After reading complaints about ODP and politics...

There is an alternative structure to ODP which also serves to place players on the regional and national teams. It is Super-Y and is run outside of USYSA (and thus SCYSA) entirely.

The only Super-Y club in the state is in Aiken (Diadora United) and has coaches such as Justin Rhodes (NSCAA Advanced National License, Region III Champion Coach, etc.) and Heather Frederick (NSCAA National License, 2003 SCYSA coach of the year, state championships, ODP coach, etc.). It is a summer league and tends not to conflict with club or high school and to allow flexibility with summer vacations and other obligations. My daughter has never played in it before; but people who have had children play there have reported that the training and coaching are very good.

So if you have or know of a player good enough to make ODP but didn't go out because of the "politics", this is another way of going about it. While tryouts have already been held, I believe that much like club ball these folks are always looking for good players.

I keep reading posts about political selections and finances keeping the best players from playing.Sorry, but I just haven't seen it. At most there might be 2 or 3 players in the 88 age group that could step in and make an impact on the team that haven't tried out.I know the families of 2 of the three and neither politics or money keeps them from playing. They have other priorities.As far as SC ODP being a joke.At least on the boys side, we have shown very well in past several years at region camp.By continually criticizing ODP you act like SC ODP is a laughingstock in region 3. I don't believe that to be the case.

The link below describes the new Super Y ODP system. As you can see selection to its ODP teams involves extensive observations by many coaches during match play, rather than in a couple of tryouts. It may also be substantially less expensive. But you have to first participate on a super Y team. As MC stated Aiken has the only Super Y league in SC. I would love to see Super Y teams started in Cola.
http://supery.uslsoccer.com/

BDad11: I haven't seen it on the girls side on a widespread basis either. I know of exceptions (e.g., an astoundingly good keeper didn't participate because of basketball conflicts) -- but I haven't seen widespread trends due to politics or costs.

However, I always want to allow for being wrong...so if I'm wrong (and even if I'm right), I hope we'll see a lot of kids playing Super Y in Aiken this summer.

P.S. If I get a chance, I'll try to spend an hour or two pulling up some data to try to understand this further...pretty hard to analyze...