SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP GFC and St. Giles Merge!

The talks have finally begun! St. Giles and GFC presidents began talks over the weekend about merging the two upstate giants, as quoted by the Greenville News today. This would be great not only for upstate soccer, but for the region. Any comments on the subject?

Clubs Move Toward Merger

St. Giles United Soccer Club and Greenville Futbol Club have taken steps toward merging Greenville's two major youth soccer organizations into one, creating one of the state's two largest clubs.

Here is the link to the Greenville News article:
www.greenvilleonline.com/news/sports/2004/02/10/2004021024634.htm

Instead of Club bashing...lets hear some meaningful discussion!

Have at it!

With respect to all those involved I prefer to see competition between clubs rather than the whole merging rivals thing.

What are the practical reasons behind this move? Is it facility and coach based or (as I suspect) financially more sound for the topmen??

Af

"We need to get budgets approved and laid out and detailed, so we can say, 'Yes, this is financially doable,' " Aucoin said. "We've got a picture of that right now, but there are other things that need to be considered and fine-tuned."

Seems to me that this move is somewhat financially based, but we all must agree that this merge will create great teams, from classic to recreational. If GFCPOP21 sees this, what is your comment on the situation?

Listen, as two of the finest clubs in SC, GFC and St Giles must consider the financial viability of this possible merger. It would be absurd to think otherwise, but yet to insinuate that it is financially driven is rediculous.
"If" the merger is completed, it will be to improve soccer from the youngest recreational player(of which are the majority) up to the oldest premier team or it won't be done.
Speculation will be rampant as to the reasons, benefits, the negatives and etc...very little will be accurate if it is not from Pearse Tormey, Russ Aucoin, Andrew Hyslop or BobF(no really). Already there are totally inaccurate "experts" making claims. They were not in any meetings I was at...Discussions will continue, "if" it happens, it will be a true merger of two giants attempting to make soccer for the future better at every age and every skill level.

BobF

BobF,
I only one question about the merger. What does Nancy think about it?
BLJ

OK Columbia!!!!
I have said it for a long time. It is now your time to get off your egos and do something here!None of the various clubs here will have a chance at any level when St. Giles & GFC merge.

Why stop with the GFC - St. Giles merger? Raleigh is only a few hours away and if a three way merger with CASL could be brought about just think what a national powerhouse you could have.

lpaf

lpaf: I think that you're using reductio ad absurdium as a method to discredit the idea of this merger, but I'm not sure why you think two teams merging in the same city is a bad thing. Could you explain?

I fall into a.foley's camp here. Greenville has two historically significant and strong clubs. Why consolidate into one? Why do away with the character and tradition of two clubs in order to produce a superclub? Would the GFC 85 Boys team be a better team for such a merger? Don't the best players (at least at driving age and beyond) already auto select the stronger of the two clubs and migrate to it? And don't forget the lesson of business "mergers" -- there are no mergers. The stronger business always assimilates the weaker and its culture prevails at the other's expense, no matter what the press clips say.

lpaf

ps: I remain, probably, the least well informed person on this board to pass judgement on a GFC - St. Giles merger, and, to be honest, don't actually care what my piedmont comrades decide to do with their clubs.

pps: "reductio ad absurdium" ... I like that.

Bet its called GFC

Lpaf, Raleigh doesnt need any help with their program! They are incredible as they are. This GFC/St.Giles merger could produce teams on par with CASL. If you look at the St. Giles website there is a letter from the president saying that the club does not have the funds to complete a building project. So part of the decision must be money, but the main purpose as stated in the news article is to improve overall classic program. The merger will also make the high school teams even better because all the area high school players will be trained at one club. This will also result in kick-ass club teams in all levels. I also saw where there was a bigtime merger of 4 strong clubs in Va. http://www.restonfc.com/news.php?id=22
Its the thing to do Columbia!!! So, like Nike, just do it!

I doubt it will be called GFC or St.Giles because then it would appear that one club is taking over the other. Any thoughts about what you think it should be named?

From what I understand, the new club will be called Upstate United.

The new club will actually be called Greenville United. I misstyped it in my last post.

Folly:
It appears that the thread on syntax and vocabulary has run dry, so maybe you could begin a new one on logic. For someone who doesn't care about the comrades in the Piedmont, the nouns GFC and St. Giles resonate throughout your posts-"The lady doth protest too much."

Foley: You are most certainly in the dark on this specific subject. Being as such, perhaps you could refrain from your dispersions on something you know nothing about.

Folly and Foley: soccer does indeed acquaint strange bedfellows. Funny stuff.

As BobF said yesterday, nothing is accurate unless it comes from people involved in the merger. I do not claim that anything below is accurate – it’s all just some of my opinions based on following GFC and St. Giles for a while and now being the parent of a GFC player. This is an in-context response to the excellent points that a.foley and lpaf raised in some earlier messages.

>>[a.foley] With respect to all those involved I prefer to see competition between clubs rather than the whole merging rivals thing.<<

You mean South Carolina clubs, right? I understand this preference with respect to South Carolina only; but I’m not sure I understand it if you’re talking about region III let alone nationally. I’ve attached a ranking of the top 20 boys and girls clubs that Soccer America just put out – and there are 2 clubs from Georgia, 1 club from North Carolina, and 0 clubs from South Carolina.

>>[a.foley] What are the practical reasons behind this move? Is it facility and coach based or [as I suspect] financially more sound for the topmen??<<

I’m not sure what “topmen” means. Since the boards are unpaid volunteers, the only “topmen” would be the director of coaches, right [or am I missing something]? I think that this means Hyslop at GFC and Tormey at St. Giles. But these guys are front-line coaches – I believe that both have quite a few teams that they coach as well as handling the director of coaching responsibilities. So are these the “topmen” to whom you are referring?

Why would you think that the boards would consider a merger just to financially benefit these two people? And if these guys just wanted more money, it seems from their biographies that they have the credentials to go to Atlanta, Charlotte, or somewhere else where they’d probably get a big salary bump.

Personally, I hope that this merger would result in more pay for coaches and additional highly qualified coaches. I live in Lexington, where we have what are arguably the best facilities in the state – and it’s my opinion [as I’ve stated on this message board multiple times] that the critical item for club success has almost nothing to do with fields and almost everything to do with the coaches.

>>[lpaf] Greenville has two historically significant and strong clubs. Why consolidate into one? Why do away with the character and tradition of two clubs in order to produce a superclub? <<

My guess would be for the same reason that companies merge: to be able to quickly scale and to realize cost savings. The scaling could be associated with more recreational and classic players, more fund-raising, and more regionally and nationally competitive teams. The cost savings could be associated with coach/team ratios, overhead payment, and the like – it’s just a matter of doing a pareto analysis of costs and then working on the costs that add the least value. Of course, the reason I can post is because I have no information concerning this – so this is just a guess.

>>[lpaf] Would the GFC 85 Boys team be a better team for such a merger? Don't the best players [at least at driving age and beyond] already auto select the stronger of the two clubs and migrate to it?<<

I don’t know if the GFC U-18 boys or girls team would be any better immediately – I know that the GFC U-18G team already draws from multiple states as well as from the Columbia and Charleston area. But I would think that a real motivation would be to broaden the number of competitive teams and to bring the demonstrated strengths of St. Giles younger teams together with GFC’s older teams. And since most highly competitive clubs tend to be fanatical about the “developmental pipeline” associated with recreation and U-11 and under classic, I would think that this would be a focus as well. If this is the thinking, then the theory would be that you’d be able to more consistently have even stronger U-18 teams – as well as stronger teams at U-17, U-16, and so on.

>>[lpaf] And don't forget the lesson of business "mergers" -- there are no mergers. The stronger business always assimilates the weaker and its culture prevails at the other's expense, no matter what the press clips say.<<

Okay – I think that is absolutely a valid and key point. I’ve participated in lots of business mergers, and the operationalization of the merger is the heart of the matter once you get the strategies worked out. An early test as to successful operationalization is to see what the key intellectual property [in the case of a soccer club, the DOC’s and coaches] does. If you see coaches, particularly the top coaches with the most success, abandon the combined club then the merger will fail – what you’ll see over time are lots of small clubs pop up in the upstate. However, if the coaches can work together toward a common set of goals, then you could have something that South Carolina currently doesn’t have – a club that is competition in region III consistently with multiple teams at once.

I’ll give one other, more personal, observation. In the last few months, I’ve been able to observe first-hand GFC in action – my daughter began training there in the last quarter of 2003. The work rate of the coaching staff of GFC is absolutely amazing – these people are out there almost all of the time and run an incredibly open and intensely challenging training environment. In addition, I’ve seen GFC consistently over the years make decisions that are player-based rather than club- or team-based – in other words, I’ve seen GFC make training and coaching decisions based on what’s best for the player instead of worrying about specific team competitiveness. If this merger occurs, I think that this is one of the most important things that can be brought forward to both. As a parent, this is the attribute to which I’ll pay the most attention.

Attachment:
_________________________
Soccer America announces top 20 boys and girls youth soccer clubs in America

The criteria for determining ‘America’s Best Youth Clubs’ was success in the US Youth Soccer National Championships since 2001, the number of players who went on to national and US Youth Soccer ODP regional teams last year, and a survey of college coaches on the best clubs at developing and showcasing players.

“Soccer America’s acknowledgement further solidifies US Youth Soccer’s position as the leader in providing player development opportunities through such as programs as the US Youth Soccer National Championship Series and the US Youth Soccer Olympic Development Program,” said Jim Cosgrove, executive director of US Youth Soccer.

“It is still the youth game at its highest level that drives our sport,” said Lynn Berling-Manuel, CEO and publisher of Soccer America in reference to the magazine’s focus on youth clubs “the game that continues to drive soccer in America.”

Girls Top 20 Club/State Association
1. Bethesda [Maryland]
2. San Diego Surf [California -South]
3. PDA [New Jersey]
4. Sereno Golden Eagles [Arizona]
5. Dallas Texans [North Texas]
6. Laguna Hills Eclipse [California - South]
7. Colorado Rush [Colorado]
8. Michigan Hawks [Michigan]
9. Pleasanton Rage [California - North]
10. Busch [Missouri]
11. Slammers FC [California - South]
12. Challenge [South Texas]
13. Carmel United [Indiana]
14. HBC [Eastern New York]
15. Gwinnett SA [Georgia]
16. Colorado GSA [Colorado]
17. SC Blues [California - South
18. D'Feeters [North Texas
19. Eclipse Select [Illinois]
20. Dallas Sting [North Texas]

Boys Top 20 Clubs/State Association
1. FC Delco [Eastern Pennsylvania]
2. Chicago Magic [Illinois]
3. Irvine Strikers [California - South]
4. CASL Elite [North Carolina]
5. Concorde Fire [Georgia]
6. La Jolla Nomads [California - South]
7. Dallas Texans [North Texas]
8. FC Sockers [Illinois]
9. Houston Texans [South Texas]
10. So Cal United [California - South]
11. Sereno Golden Eagles [Arizona]
12. Colorado Rush [Colorado]
13. Michigan Wolves [Michigan]
14. Vardar [Michigan]
15. PDA [New Jersey]
16. West Kendall Optimist [Florida]
17. Scott Gallagher [Missouri]
18. Oakwood [Connecticut]
19. Solar [North Texas]
20. Bethesda [Maryland]
20. Potomac Cougars [Maryland]

WOW! That is earth shattering news about St. Giles and GFC. Good luck to all involved, but I have a feeling that some people are going to feel they have had their toes stepped on. Not surprising, because it happens when a merger takes place. But, when you are talking about volunteers and unpaid people on the Board of Directors, I'm sure some will not go along.

This eventually begs the question that 4soccer has asked, 'what happens in Columbia?' There's a fragmented soccer community in the capital city and some clubs are there for practical reasons, while others have been setup as self serving entities. Does Columbia have anyone on the par of a Charlie Slagle like CASL has? I ask, because looking around at the locals involved (see below) and I would say 'no'.

Columbia Soccer Club
Congaree Rapid Soccer Association
Lexington County Girls Soccer Club
Lexington Recreation Soccer Club
Lexington Soccer Club
Northeast Columbia Soccer Association

Some serious questions need to be asked about the purpose and growth speculation of a "merged soccer community" in Columbia and more importantly those that perceive themselves as the movers-and-shakers must be able to answer those questions! It will certainly be interesting, because if no movement takes place I think you will see the dominance of club soccer to the upstate become permanent.

Dexter --

You must know you cut me to the quick with your above post. And I don't refer to your perfidious innuendo about me and a.foley sharing the same bed -- we've never even met, though out names are stangely similar... No, I refer to your perfunctory dismissal of my Syntax and Vocabulary topic found elsewhere on this board but seldom visited. I had certain limited hopes when I started it that have not been fulfilled. My vision was a sort of virtual "parking lot" that two disagreeing posters could meet in to hash out differences in their understanding or interpretations of words and sentence structure. This way such discussions could be moved out of their cluttering positions on the the other various boards and centralized in the Syntax and Vocabulary arena. I'd hope to read comments such as "Meet me on the Syntax and Vocabulary board you dimwit and I'll teach you a thing or two about infer and imply!" Unfortunately this fertile ground has lain fallow, abandoned like a Dennis Kucinik bumpersticker. You rub salt in my wounds to bring it up here. So there.

lpaf

Cola Fan: Let's not forget Lexington County Girls Soccer Association, another recreation club and not to be confused with the classic club you mentioned called Lexington County Girls Soccer Club. Lexington has four clubs. Sigh...

While I am the antithesis of a soccer mover and shaker, I do agree completely with your message.

My concern is this:
My child plays on a Classic B team. My child plays almost the entire game. It can't get any better for my family. There are 3 players on my child's team that are good enough to play on the A team now for my child's age group and probably 2 that should be playing Rec.

When the 2 clubs merge ,and I understand its a done deal, we are going to have a awesome Challenge team , a awesome Classic team, and a OK Classic Team.

Its going to be great for the 32 or so that make the first 2 teams but nothing to get excited about for those last 16.

We will dominant the state and beat some NC teams
but were going to be challenged to keep those players that arent going anywhere with it after HS.
I think this is typical for all the age groups and both genders.

scdad: Actually I think that typically you're going to have a premier league team (I think CASL calls this "elite") that focuses more on regional competition, a challenge league team, and a classic league team. For example, at St. Giles today I believe that there's a U-14G "A" team that competes in premier and a U-14G "B" team that competes in classic but no U-14G team that competes in challenge.

In any case, I'm not sure I fully follow the concern you articulated (I apologize up front for my ignorance). When I read what you wrote, it seemed that the key was that the last 16 wouldn't have anything to be excited about and thus a combined club would have trouble keeping those players. My question is why wouldn't they be excited? Is it because of the theory that they couldn't compete effectively in one of the state leagues? Or do you have a theory that there will be less coaching talent available and thus the players won't reach their full potential? Or am I missing the concern altogether?

Mark, in response to some of the "points" you raised RE my earlier post.

Ok, you can throw numbers, rankings and statistics at me all you want for I do not care for such things. Your argument was holding up quite well until your whole "field" thing - have you ever played the game?? Do you know what its like to try to play a crisp passing/possession game on a cut up or poor field??

Oh, by the by - when you commented on LPAF questioning on why the clubs should merge you casually said for the "same reason that companies merge: to be able to quickly scale and to realize cost savings. The scaling could be associated with more recreational and classic players, more fund-raising, and more regionally and nationally competitive teams. The cost savings could be associated with coach/team ratios, overhead payment, and the like – it’s just a matter of doing a pareto analysis of costs and then working on the costs that add the least value." I implore you, and all others involved in CHILDRENS SPORTS

I will try not be to a hypocrite ( since I do advocate that LowCountry area do something about consolidation of clubs) but everyone should be aware that the effect of this trend can easily be seen in the public schools and its effect on player participation. If you have a mega 4A school like Dorman, Wando, Summerville, West Ashley , etc. there a finite # of spots available on the varsity of any sport. Sure, you have opportunity for a real good varsity but there are dozens of qualified kids who will not get opportunity to play. Sure there is intrumurals and rec but we all know the development and intrinsic rewards are just not the same. Not just talking about soccer but all sports and all genders.
Instead of 1 2,500 student body producing 1 varsity team - what if there were 2 1,250 student body schools producing 2 varsity team that perhaps would even be playing each other. College coaches/recruiters would see twice as many prospects this way.
Bring this back to club soccer and same applies. Problem is (and applies to high school sports too) is that unless everyone does it, then the teams(schools) who do not adopt this philosophy(and go the mega route) will win the titles and get the publicity, etc.
How does this get resolved? As a conservative, anti-regulation, free market espousing, entrepeneur I unfortunately can not endorse regulations/laws but I do not have a solution. So what good am I? A lot of people keep asking me that...

There are 2 specific reasons why they merged and they are spelled out in the St. Giles website-
1) The president's letter to the club indicated that they could not complete their building project because they did not have the money. 2)The greenville news article quoted the St. Giles president "... that the merger would produce competitive teams regionally and nationally..."
Those are the 2 principal reasons. It is not to make soccer more appealing to all youth in upstate or provide more opportunity for rec level players. St. Giles and GFC are tired of only being competitive in-state and infrequently in region play. Only the older GFC girls/boys teams have been somewhat successful at the upper level.
They want to now consistently compete with CASL,Concorde,Fla. teams. And they will be successful after all the dust settles.
SO AGAIN I SAY.........Columbia, it is your time....there are too many small area clubs, resulting in a dispersion and weakening of the talent pool. There are several very good players on too many individual teams. The talent pool needs to be consolidated. CSC is working hard, on its own, to attract quality players, but there are still a number of quality area players who travel to GFC/St. Giles. With their merger will we see even more of a loss of talent from Cola area to that mega-club?
So I applaud their merger. Good stuff! Great decision! Columbia, it is only a matter of time before SSC & MPSC may consider a merger. Then will Cola be the 3rd best soccer area, struggling to win with so many various, individual clubs????

Foley,
What do you implore us to do? I'm not sure you finished your thought. I have and do play the game, and while I would prefer to play on a perfectly manicured pitch, I don't think that is the number one priority for training players. I believe what Mark was saying was that coaching and not bermuda grass fields makes players. In fact,the entire Tahuichi training system is centered around playing on miserable field conditions. If you want to look beyond that, we could examine who the most technical players on the planet are and see the direct correlation between their poor playing conditions. I don't think anyone would ever doubt the technical ability of the Brazilians, Argentines, or Latin Americans.

Mexico 4-0 U.S. Under 23s

quote:

---

Though the U.S. has made tremendous strides during the past four years, because soccer is not ingrained in American culture, some skills are hard to match. The fields in Mexico are so hard because of so much use, which is why the Mexican's first touch of the ball cannot be matched, said U.S. assistant coach Ralph Perez, who scouted Mexico during the tournament.

---

Fields are necessary and vital, but the lure of top-level coaching is essential!

Folly,
You are right. It was petty and beneath me to take a shot at you when your guard was down, but that post agitated me so. I should never take a shot at the few, the proud, the urbane.

Dex --

Your gracious apology is accepted. My wounds feel better already.

lpaf

>>[a.foley] Mark, in response to some of the "points" you raised RE my earlier post.<<

I must have really done a poor job if you used scare quotes around the term “points”. Again, I apologize up front for any ignorance that I might show here. Thanks for taking the time to respond and help me learn.

>>[a.foley] Ok, you can throw numbers, rankings and statistics at me all you want for I do not care for such things.<<

I now understand your dislike of quantitative metrics, so I’ll try to use qualitative means. When you talk about rivalries, there are some of us [not all of us by any means, but at least a few people] who would like to see South Carolina in various capacities be able to better compete with the rest of the country – or at least a few states in our geographic region. That was really all I was trying to show using numbers, ranking, and statistics.

>>[a.foley] Your argument was holding up quite well until your whole "field" thing - have you ever played the game?? Do you know what its like to try to play a crisp passing/possession game on a cut up or poor field??<<

Here’s a conundrum: is it more difficult to play a crisp passing/possession game if you don’t know how or is it more difficult to play a crisp passing/possession game on a cut up or poor field?

Actually, what I said, and I tried to be very careful, was that a club’s success had almost [note that term “almost”] nothing to do with fields and almost [note that term “almost” again!] everything to do with coaches.

If you disagree, and you believe that fields are more important than coaches, or even that fields are close to being on par with coaches, I wish you’d articulate your reasoning so I could learn from you.

>>[a.foley] Oh, by the by - when you commented on LPAF questioning on why the clubs should merge you casually said for the "same reason that companies merge: to be able to quickly scale and to realize cost savings. The scaling could be associated with more recreational and classic players, more fund-raising, and more regionally and nationally competitive teams. The cost savings could be associated with coach/team ratios, overhead payment, and the like – it’s just a matter of doing a pareto analysis of costs and then working on the costs that add the least value." I implore you, and all others involved in CHILDRENS SPORTS<<

You dropped out on this last paragraph [a verb, senator, give us a verb! – an old Garry Trudeau jibe at Ted Kennedy - and please note that I'm completely kidding - the number of typographic, syntactic, and semantic errors I make I'm sure far exceeds everyone on this board] but I think I know where you’re going. Look – there’s no doubt that when you get on the field you have to remember that soccer is a youth sport [I’m not sure at U-19 or even U-18 I’d call it a child’s sport, but that’s not germane to this argument] and behave accordingly. In point of fact, since the “customer” of these clubs is the player and the paying parent, I don’t know how you do otherwise in all facets of a club.

But there are a lot of parents, paying a lot of money, to have their children play in club soccer. These parents have the right to demand that they get the absolute best value for their dollar. The way to do that isn’t to remember at a club’s business level [e.g., it’s board] that this is a child’s sport and then childishly handle the club’s finances. Instead, the way to do this is to use all business techniques possible associated with maximizing revenue [e.g., charity, tournaments, merchandising, etc.] while also making sure that every dime spent is reviewed ruthlessly with respect to the value that it brings the player.

The people talking about doing this merger have to take into account fiscal issues – because it is through fiscal policy that the highest possible amount of value can be delivered to each player – whether that player is recreationally- or competitively-oriented.

Please let me know where I’ve made mistakes or missed the point in this.

Oh my god!!!!!!

I have now seen the bottom of humanity - I graciously withdraw from this "argument" - the post about Mexican soccer said it all - look BIG PICTURE kids - mexicans, brazilians, argentines etc have barely got a ball between themselves when they're kids - thats how the game is learned and played in the rest of the world - just let the kids play - and whoever that was with their Mr.Myagi training "wax on/wax off" method - do us all a favour and get off the stage - soccer is a simple game complicated by idiots.

Af

a.foley: Obviously I can't say or do anything to cause you to engage in a debate if you choose to withdraw; however, I did want you to know that while I may very well be an "idiot" and the "bottom of humanity" I believe I am in this state not due to stupidity but due to ignorance. So let me repeat what I put in the last message:

quote:

---

If you disagree, and you believe that fields are more important than coaches, or even that fields are close to being on par with coaches, I wish you’d articulate your reasoning so I could learn from you.

---

The bottom of humanity?

"Can't we ALL just get along???????"
-Rodney King (before he won his million dollar case)

I propose to Kyle Heise that a. foley and Mark be relegated to their own soccer league so that the rest of us soccer addicts can focus on the game!

4soccer,what is the burning question you have about soccer that is going unanswered due to the discussion on this thread?

4soccer: If you'll tell me how I'm transgressing I'll try to alter my behavior to conform to acceptable standards. I don't want to be the Janet Jackson of this message board!

This particular thread was started about the GFC/St.Giles merger but some of you have taken it way off track. And Mark, please don't expose your breasts, unless you have them partially covered with tassles.

4soccer: Thanks for helping me understand what the problem was; I can and will correct it immediately.

Getting back to what you and others have noted, let me ask you a question. What in the world could make one or more of the major Columbia area soccer clubs merge? Is this St. Giles/GFC news enough of an impetus, or would it take something else, or is it just an impossibility?

I do not know of any valid reason why the Cola. area clubs would merge. The majority of them just want their own little, neat club to remain intact, and not lose their individual autonomy. They don't want to compete with the big boys and probably could care less about improving their successes on the field. If there is any desire to merge and be progressive in their approach to soccer success it would have to come from CSC. But if the smaller clubs dont desire to improve and attempt to keep up with the upstate, then CSC will have a hard time on its own against the big merger.

4Soccer what is you grand plan? What would solve the "merger" problem in Columbia? I am not picking a fight. You all always saying BLAH BLAH BLUH but what is you idea. You constantly try to urge people to "merge'" or make "super Clubs" yet you give no insight on how to make this happen. Remember I am just trying to pick your brain.Which might be a small task after all! Jsut kidding!

Attached you guys will notice a letter I sent out to all Club Presidents and DoC's in the Columbia Metro Area! I want you all to know that we (CSC) would love to make this happen...the offer and on the table and hopefully we can get the ball rolling "together" here in Columbia?

....Good Morning Ladies and Gentlemen,

As you are well aware of by now St. Giles United Soccer Club and Greenville Futbol Club are well on their way to merging the two clubs into one super club. However, there are ways, that we in Columbia could unite our resources without taking away from anyone else. I feel at this time that Columbia Soccer Club has taken some steps to be just a slight bit ahead of the top clubs in Columbia and maybe in South Carolina compared to SGU and GFC. I'm not saying that Lexington, NECSA, Congaree and others are not, but I feel that CSC has taken some huge steps to provide the Columbia-Metro area kids an opportunity to play at the next level. Our coaching staff is maintains a minimum USSF C license or higher with most staff members carrying B and A or equivalent. We currently own our facilities with a 6 field complex, lights, paved parking, restroom and dining facilities. Also, we have received grant money to acquire two additional lite regulation fields along with two U10 fields as well. I know that all of you have great facilities as well! I know what great things you have to offer and I'm not disputing this, but if we shared resources: coaching, training, facilities, etc...the greater Columbia area would surely benefit? Please don't miss understand me. I'm not asking you to merge under CSC and drop your club affiliation. I'm asking you to consider our options. (What are those you may ask...?) I am proposing that we continue training the U11-14 at your various clubs for now. However, U15 and above would unite and play under one banner (which ever we decide) to compete at the regional and national level. While doing this our top coaches would be in charge of training/coaching the elite teams, while keeping their other club commitments as well. There are tons of options to work off this and this is only one idea! I'm sure you have your own and that is great, too!!! I think we all want to hear those! So, are we interested?
Sure, in the past we've all had a team here or there to challenge the upstate as well as a regional/national competitor. However, the time has come for us to put the KIDS first in our decision making. We can always work out logistics, money, training, etc...but we need to act on this to continue our development of the midlands youth. Together we can make this possible. I'm not doing this for personal gain, professional gain or any other alternative motives. Like all of you, I'm here for the kids and the advancement and development of our youth players to challenge and compete on a state, region and national level. As long as well keep this in mind and hire people with our same goals and vision... we will always keep our focus on the KIDS!

I have been in discussion with Kevin Demers from US Club Soccer and I'm very excited about our options to take our situation to the next level. He would like to meet with all of us. The sooner the better. He is working on a presentation and meeting for us to guide us (as a unbias professional) through this process. He has worked with Club soccer for numerous years and been in dealings with the likes of Concorde Fire, CASL, Charlotte and others. He, like us, is in it for the best interest of the kids. Attached is his email if you would like to contact him personally.

I look forward to hearing from all of you very soon. Please respond either way in regards to whether or not you would like to meet and your feelings regarding the meeting.

Respectfully Yours in the Game,

Eddie Crosby

ecrosby -
What is Kevin Demers email. Thanks.

My post for Lowcountry dated 12/12/2003 in a thread about club superiority:

I will attempt a grand solution for the Lowcountry.
We have a natural leader for a consolidation in our National Champion Professional team - Charleston Battery. The Charleston Battery could sponsor 1 (possibly 2) teams in each age group ( and sex) at the highest level of state wide competition available. They could hire the coaches, sponsor the uniforms, and provide some fields for just these limited # of teams. Their base of operations on Daniel Island is quickly becoming the center of the greater Charleston metropolitan area ( geographically speaking).
Since the Battery has no geographical territory to speak of, it could argue that its player selection would be unbiased.
The local clubs could continue to run their own recreational leagues, in house programs, and possibly sponsor a team at the classic level (not challenge) or American Cup level if there was the player demand. There would have to be operating agreements between all the clubs and the Battery
that the elite players would be fed to the Battery.
In exchange, the Battery would provide pro players and coaches to help in develop training sessions on a broader level.

problems to overcome:
1- Pride, Ego, Turf - whatever you want to call it.
2- If successful, they do not have field capacity at their training facility for a large # of teams.
More fields in this area would be needed. Possibly teams could rotate practice time and game field availability based upon this magical harmonious relationship between the feeder clubs.
3- Historical opposition to this type of idea is that Battery did not want to risk alienating possible season ticket holders when the kid gets "cut". In fact, I think the contrary would happen. Battery would have more exposure and everyone would aspire to be part of a "Battery" Team.

Isn't this vaguely similar to how International clubs run youth programs?

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This is very similar to ecrosby's for midlands. If the idea seems so simple - why can't it happen?

I feel Eddie Crosby is working in the right direction here. If a plan along those lines can be worked out in the midstate, it could stop the trend of losing fine local players to the upstate club(s) by giving them a local option to compete regionally/nationally.

Mark , my concern is that GFC and St Giles now have stand out players on there teams. When we start having C and D teams in Classics its going to be a challenge to keep the C and D players playing soccer at the older age groups.

The merger won't be all good or bad.
I admit that by reading this forum Columbia and Charleston are'nt excited about the merger.
Greenvile is differnt from Columbia. Without the river and Fort J. it's a lot easier to get to practice in Greenville than in Columbia from a logistical standpoint.

I don't think were going to see a great improvemnet at the older age groups since the kids tend to go the better team now regradless of which club it is. I may be wrong on this point What do you think?

SCDAD - ever heard of a bridge? you columbia folks always talk about the river being such a devisive feature. why? doesn't make since to me. we have players from James Island and even North Charleston and such playing for MPSC - and it's a lot bigger bridge to cross!

Talon: I think that scdad is from Greenville and was just trying to be nice to Columbia folks. My home is in the Columbia area; and you're preaching to the choir when you talk about Columbia and distance to me. Amen!

scdad: I'm with you on the immediate impact to the older groups -- but I do think that there will be a longer-term positive impact as the development pipeline is well-managed -- if the combined club really focuses on this.

In terms of keeping C and D players interested, I would think that this is a function of the "importance" that the club places on the C and D teams. This is one of the reasons I'm so fanatical about coaching staffs -- because I would think that you'd have to make sure you had the best possible programs and coaches feasible to attract the best players on the C and D teams because they'd be getting more out of it than they could somewhere else.

Swimmer 1,

You might have the "best/most realistic" idea yet. If you can get the Battery involved you would have an immediate advantage! With the Daniel Island complex you are way ahead of the game with facilities etc and added to that the Battery players helping out would really give something back to the kids! I really don't see how the Battery could turn down the community that supports them! Good luck and keep this board informed.

Does anyone think that there will be interest in a Cola. merger?? I believe there are several points to make in favor of a merger: 1)I can see CRSA being interested since they are small. They need the fields and more talent. 2) I don't know if NECSA wants to join in a cooperative involvement to make a bigger and more successful club. If NECSA would just consider that a merger would produce more teams like the great Galaxy and Storm teams in 2000 and 2001. It would also help improve their girls program. But NECSA voted against a merger with CSC a few years ago when CSC and Carolina FC merged their efforts. That merger has proved to be successful. 3)Lexington has the fields and lots of kids. All the kids at Lexington need is some quality coaching and instruction. A merger with CSC, CRSA and Lex. would produce a strong, organized, focused club with exceptional coaching. I would dare say that with strong coaches Chris Christian, Kevin Heise, Eddie Crosby, Tom Chumura and others,they could compete well with the Greenville club, and challenge regionally. Then maybe NECSA would come on board. It needs to happen now Cola. cause according to St. Giles website they should be merged by Fall 2004.

Tom who????? The great Storm team? Remind me which Championships they won? Remind from which club did ALL their talent come from? credited ! The talent is a good point. But If all the talent in Cola is in Greenville at the new "United" what does it matter?

Tom Chumura is head caoch at Cardinal Newman. Galaxy and Storm beat GFC for state championships 2000,2001. I doubt you will see but a few players from Cola. decide to play in Greenville just because of its merger. There will be plenty of talent between the two merged clubs to field their top teams. The competition for a top team slot will be very intense. Local Greenville boys will get the top slots. You may even see that the Cola. players who do now travel up to Greenville may decide to play in Cola for a top team.

AHH I see young grasshopper. A columbia team is only good enough for local talent if their is a merger!? What makes you think a merger would make columbia any better? The grass isn't always greener on the other side! BTW the "quality" Storm players were from BC/CRSA and Aiken HS/Aiken Soccer club! Two of the BIGGEST clubs in the state!!!!!

How long will it take Talbot, Barrett, and Mills to come back and take over Greenville again. DSA was and always will be the best club.

Several ignorant questions:

1. What's wrong with "Greenville" that you want fixed? How do you define "Greenville" in terms of soccer -- which club/clubs?

2. Why was DSA the best club? How do you define "best"?

The competitive core inside apparently lives on long into our adult years. Instead of blows and goals to prove our superiority, we use the biggest and most rare words available. I enjoy reading the banter very much, I simply hope you aren't too hard on the younger folk near you who might display similar behavior. Bobby Bowden would tell you set the example before criticizing. Enjoy...

>>[4soccer] Does anyone think that there will be interest in a Cola. merger??<<

No. Sigh… I hope I’m wrong.

I made an educated guess about a GFC/St. Giles merger before it occurred in a response on this message board [re: What a Shocker thread, January 8, 2004]. The only reason it was “educated” was that it seemed to me that both clubs had similar aspirations. The reason it was a “guess” and was a shock was that I would not have thought that the two clubs could get around the control/ego issues. Even if you dismiss the control/ego issues for clubs in the Columbia area [which many believe is much easier said than done], I think you have an issue concerning common aspirations.

You have to ask yourself which clubs have board members/DOC’s that wake up each morning and ask themselves how they’re going to help their clubs better compete on a regional and national level. I’ve not seen evidence of that from any club except CSC [and please note that I’m not affiliated in any way, shape, or form with CSC or any other Columbia club – this is just the view from the outside].

This isn’t a criticism of the other clubs. CRSA seems more focused on providing lower costs and more convenience through local competition – an admirable stance if that’s what most people want/need in the area it serves. NECSA and Lexington seem more focused on convenience and recreational soccer. Again – an admirable stance if that’s what most people want/need in the area they serve. These clubs seem to make a choice to focus on this rather than expend resources on higher levels of competition.

My guess is that there are very few parents who have children playing in these clubs that want to change the status quo – and that these clubs are responding to that. Those players/parents that want more training and more competition tend to opt out of the local area system as early as possible if it is feasible and end up with the strongest team or club that they can find. Increasingly, in the Columbia area this is CSC – and outside of that Greenville or Charlotte.

I hope I’m wrong about interest in a Columbia merger. If I’m wrong, I sure hope that someone will tell me I’m wrong and explain it. Better yet, I hope that they will show me I’m wrong by taking Mr. Crosby up on his offer. But I’m not holding my breath.

I hope you will be proven wrong, as well, MC. I have heard rumors that there may be another merger to our west: Aiken Soccer Club is considering a big merger between Augusta Arsenal, Columbia County, and maybe another club. They would play out of Aiken, so it would be a SC club. I just hope that Cola area clubs can come together and at least start with the older age groups U-15 up, with the goal set before them to primarily produce regional-caliber teams. Here's how it can happen........1) Plenty of fields between Lex./CSC and plenty of quality coaching/instruction between NECSA,CRSA/CSC. Sure, you may have to travel across town once a week for practice and then practice a couple of times a week on your own side. But if you wanta play quality ball, it beats the trip and time to Greenville. And at a high level of soccer, don't we all travel a good bit anyway? So, location cannot be a factor to not consider merger. 2) Egos?? Control?? I think the DOCs now should understand that quality and successful soccer should be the over-riding factor, and not fear loss of any control or prestige. Control of what? Its a kids game. Its their game, not yours or mine. 3)Lets create a local soccer environment that encourages and promotes the ability for area boys/girls to be the best they want to be. For so long there has been such a division of the talent pool in Cola. that the guys have been denied the ability to progress to the highest level. A few area teams have for sure, done well in the past years -NECSA Galaxy, Storm. But those were too infrequent. The area then began to lose players to GFC, St. Giles and that continues. We need now a concerted effort to produce a high level environment to train and instruct here in Columbia. The offer from Crosby is there to consider soccer fans/clubs. If our northern capital friend, Raleigh, can do it with CASL, then lets go for it here. The guys/gals deserve it and if it is built (the new club),as they say, then they will come.....