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#57810 07/10/04 01:22 AM
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On the SCYSA calendar it lists ODP tryouts for girls on October 10th. What are the tryout times and is there a different location for Upstate, Midstate, and Lowerstate girls to tryout? I could not find the information posted anywhere.

Thanks,
Ryan Roseberry

#57811 07/11/04 04:11 AM
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I'm assuming that the girls program does the same thing as the boys...a flyer is mailed out with all the pertinent information sometime in September. Mary Bynum (State Administrator) is also very good about updating the website....but you could probably contact her with questions as well. Her address is on the scysa website...

#57812 07/26/04 12:13 PM
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runaway!

#57813 07/26/04 01:12 PM
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I don't know whose fault it is, but the SCYSA website is pathetic. Maybe the BOD should consider outsourcing that phase of their duties.

#57814 07/26/04 01:24 PM
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chapindad - what does "runaway" mean?

#57815 07/28/04 01:03 AM
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If you have children that are either part of now or in the past then you would understand.

#57816 07/28/04 02:12 PM
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"Run away!"

Command given by King Arthur to his Knights of the Round Table as the crazy Frenchman rained cows and other sundry farm animals down upon them from the ramparts of the French castle.

lpaf

#57817 07/29/04 01:49 PM
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It was a good idea then and a good idea now.

#57818 07/30/04 01:02 PM
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thanks for clearing that up! I take it that you think SC ODP is poorly run/organized? Enlighten us please.

#57819 07/30/04 08:25 PM
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Just look for the previous threads. I do keep praying....

#57820 08/08/04 12:25 AM
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I am not sure what has happened to the ODP program since my last year in 1994, but here is how it used to be run....

Sometime in October or November, each region of South Carolina met on back to back weekends to pick a team. I was in the upstate and we met at Wofford for both weekends. Each day was about 3-4 hours of training, small sided and full sided games. After the first weekend, there was a cut and the remaining "pool players" returned the next weekend for the same schedule of events. From that, the Upstate Team was picked.

We met in Columbia in January and played the Mid and Lower State teams on Saturday. Sunday was also two games but the three teams consisted of approx 6 players from each team. From that the South Carolina State Pool was picked. The weekend before high school started, SC, NC and GA met for the Interstate game that was organized in the same manner as the weekend in Columbia.

I have a sincere desire to return ODP to that format, but there has to be a commitment from all coaches at all age levels to put any politics aside. There also has to be a commitment from the people running ODP to release coaches who put politics ahead of purity.

We have some awesome players in SC, and there is no reason our players cannot be better prepared for Region and National camp. That starts with eliminating the politics, and then the best of the best will again come out to ODP and then we can return to the format that saw some of players have the most success at ODP.

#57821 08/09/04 02:14 PM
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My oldest sons participated in SC ODP starting in 1988. It was a joke from that time until the youngest started college that ODP was nothing more than a fund-raiser for the National team. In fact, one of the national pool players at region camp told them as much. Back then, unless you were really exceptional, you had no chance of making the region team because the guys from previous years pretty much had a spot sewed up.
My current player, a girl, has had better luck. It seems that at least the girl's side of SC ODP is at least trying to field the best players that come out. If you would note that last sentence - that come out. The better players are not showing up in numbers. What do you think the reason is for this? Money? Lack of interest?

#57822 08/10/04 01:40 PM
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My daughter has player for the SC ODP for 3 years now in a row. The first year a lot of the best players showed up and has dwindled down every year. I really worry that we will not even be able to field a team next year.

Politics of picking the players does not seem to be a problem. I believe most parents feel that the coaches do their best to pick the best players available at the time. I really don't think money or politics is a current problem in SC ODP.

The problem comes into commitment of the coaches and the organization. I am not sure who is at fault. But in three years I bet my daughter has had at the most 9 practices combined over the 3 years. Other states are practicing once a week and we do it once every 2 months. The players and the parents are looking for a solid commitment by SCYSA to help make the teams successful at the region camp. Parents do not want to spend money on a losing cause and Players to do not want to waste their time on a losing cause. A lot of these players are finding their summers becoming packed with other camps and events, so a choice has to be made and I believe SC ODP loses its luster as time goes on. My daughter really loves playing for SC ODP. She really loves the idea of representing her state at regional camp. She really loves the other players she meets from around the state and she has had a really good time meeting the different coaches. But she becomes very frustrated by the lack of training and preperation for the region camp.

Okay I think I have rambled on enough.

#57823 08/11/04 06:27 PM
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I'm asking this question as honestly and as up-front as I know how (i.e., there's no intent here to be anything but straightforward). Have you communicated to SCYSA, the ODP administrator, or any of the coaches about the lack of practices versus other states? If you have, who have you spoken to and what have they said and/or done about it? If you haven't, do you know if anyone else has and what the response has been?

#57824 08/14/04 04:43 AM
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Mark,

I of course did ask that question and asked if I could help out in anyway possible. I was told by Mary that SCYSA did not want to interfere with the clubs and HS soccer clubs, that is why the tryouts are held after the state cup. I was also told that they didn't need any help.

I figured with that attitude it wasn't worth pursuing any further.

#57825 08/14/04 01:12 PM
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Chapindad: Understood. Thanks.

I spent several minutes looking around for ODP information in GA and NC, I couldn't find GA but did find the following for NC (girls) regarding number of practices:

NC
91 2
90 4
89 2
88 1

About the same rate as SC [I can't find the precise numbers on SCYSA.org anymore, so this is from memory]; but then again I heard that NC didn't do very well placing girls in region pools this year (I don't follow the boys side). I've heard, but can't confirm, that GA and TX have many more practices than SC does and I know that GA placed 57 total players into region pool [they proudly proclaim this at GASoccer.org] And of course, TX dominates.

I was told that this year that SC didn't place any girls into region pool in any age group. Assuming this is true; with 4.16% of the region III population and an age-group pool being 30-35 or so players then you might expect roughly a player or two a year per age group to make it -- thus out of the 90's, 89's, 88's, and 87's this result is a bit surprising.

In any case, without having as much experience as you do in ODP, here are what I've heard as the potential candidates for why SC is underperforming with respect to putting girls in the region pool:

1) Not enough practices. This might hurt our ability to be competitive in games, and in particular might hurt our offensive players ability to show talent. I've heard that most smaller state players chosen are defensive players (e.g., Cat Reddick, AL).

2) ODP coaches aren't focused on a goal of getting players on region pool. I've been told this, but my question would be if they're not then what are they focused on?

3) Clubs not strong enough. Our ability to develop players capable of playing on a regional or national team would seem to be somewhat dependent on whether these players are playing on club teams that are competitive regionally and nationally.

4) Best players don't try out. It does appear that over time players "give up" on ODP. It's not clear whether this is because of SC-ODP or ODP overall.

What other reasons are there and what am I missing?

#57826 08/15/04 01:32 AM
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At this year's Region III Boys 91 Regional Camp, the staff coaches held one keeper training session, somehow a list of GKs had been already been developed with the top 4 players already placed in the pool. It is not at all clear to me how this initial list was developed. Maybe from earlier subregional competitions. One 91 field player from SC was invited to the follow up national training camp, I guess a total of 100-120 kids from around the country were selected. Wish I knew what the ground rules were.

#57827 08/15/04 03:11 AM
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SCYSA needs to lets us know whether this is an important endeavor for them or not. If they have no commitment to success then we should go ahead shut it down until the commitment is there again.

Now that I have complained enough for everyone in the state. My daughter has really enjoyed the friendships that she has established through the ODP program. She has been able to meet players from all over the state and different age groups. She has also been exposed to the smaller schools of SC because they are the ones doing the coaching for the ODP programs. So despite SCYSA it does have its good points.

#57828 08/15/04 03:47 AM
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Chapin Dad

I agree with everything you have said. My daughter has played with yours, and has enjoyed the friendships she has developed.

I too would like to see more practices, and more of an effort to make South Carolina teams competitive at region camp. Sometimes I feel like we could be using the money spent more
effectively! It's obvious that not all the best players come out for SC ODP. That needs to change.

Instead of leaving everything up to the coach's discretion, I think there should be a minimum requirement set by SCYSA as to what they expect from the ODP coaches/players (boys and girls).

I would love to see South Carolina girls win something at region camp!

#57829 08/15/04 01:18 PM
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I have not figured out ODP. Except the $$$ part of it. My son is an 88 and has been participating in ODP since he was elgible. He has one more year left to participate and I don't know if he will or not. I have yet to see how this has or will benefit him. Everyone says the colleges coaches look to see if they participated in ODP. I know players that did not participate and received scholarships to play. Yes he has made some friends along the way and played with good players, but really what is it going to do for him? If it is to build friendships then I could send him to a summer camp and spend less $$$. He has been chosen to play in 5 pool games over the last 2 years, with the end result of zero SC players chosen for region pool (his age group). Over the last two years we have had 2 players (I think, maybe only 1) held over an extra week, but that is it. This year 9 NC players were held over. I don't understand it. I was under the impression that once you get to region camp it is more of an individual effort than a team effort. You are there to show what you can do. I was told that this year was the best chance SC would have due to the amount of SC coaches involved in the selections. Yes it is a fact that the best players do not try out. I have known this for a long time. I don't know if it is political or what the reason is. Although it does seem logical that if you have returning pool players year after year and if their game play has not declined then it is going to be hard to break through. My sons team has had a different coach every year and switched coaches once mid-way. We tried to practice 2 and sometimes 3 times a month this year ha. You never have the complete team at practice. It is hard to be at all the practices, especially the older ones due to preparation for regional play with your club team. I don't know it is frustrating when you know SC can and should do better.

#57830 08/16/04 01:27 PM
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I said above SC had 4.16% of region III's population. I misread a table. Actually, SC has 4.92% of region III's overall population. OK has 4.16%.

OK had 2 girls teams in the finals at regionals while SC had 1 girls team in the finals. SC's team in regionals was U18 while OK's teams were U14 and U15.

OK [girls] is ranked #14 nationally [gotSoccer.com]; SC is ranked #37. OK [girls] is ranked #4 in region III; SC is ranked #10 [LA and AK are the only two states lower].

OK placed 10 girls onto the region team from all age groups. SC placed 0.

#57831 08/16/04 03:23 PM
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>> [GFCPOP21] We tried to practice 2 and sometimes 3 times a month this year ha. You never have the complete team at practice. It is hard to be at all the practices, especially the older ones due to preparation for regional play with your club team.<<

I'm asking this out of ignorance, because I don't have the experience you do in ODP. Aren't U15+ kids available to practice almost every weekend from January through May [when regional practices start]?

#57832 08/16/04 05:13 PM
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Let me throw in on this. I've been involved with ODP forever, it seems, with the 86B...they are done now.
My take on it. Tx, NC, FL and etc have far more players tryout, therefore, far more money put into the ODP Region coffer(keep that in mind)
Now, what is the best way to get kids to tryout for ODP?...show them the opportunity they have to make a Reg Team etc..."Hi there young man, the '88B Fl team had 19 players in the Reg Pool in '00...your gonna have that same chance as a '90". And all the sudden Fl has 100s and 100s try out and Reg III says,"hey, we need to take care of Fl". This happened a few years ago, guess who headed the Reg III coaches that year, a Fl guy that is now with the Ntl team.
SC can not change the Reg..it can only improve SC...I think club mergers will help that.
GFCPOP and others, your son or daughter won't have to make the Reg Team to have an outstanding college opportunity, but you will need to use the ODP contacts that you are creating....

Bob

#57833 08/16/04 07:37 PM
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Is there a playerís listing on who made the Region III team? Iíve checked the Region III site but canít seem to find any list.

Thanks

#57834 08/16/04 07:49 PM
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ODP seems to me to be another stage upon which hopeful national quality athletes can be seen and enjoy playing soccer at something resembling the "next level". Many of SC's best soccer players do participate, though some stay away for a variety of reasons. For a small group it is actually a door to participation on a US National team or the Olympic team. I am not familiar with the way other state's ODP teams practice, but I don't think the state ODP team is critical here -- the coaches are looking at players and not state teams and these are coaches trained to scout individual talent at the club level. I am perplexed that SC has not fared better in placing it's players in the Regional pool. It would be good if some of the SC ODP players posted their thoughts here but this discussion is mainly between adults.

lpaf

#57835 08/16/04 10:30 PM
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<Mark C> High School soccer season is in the spring and even though they don't play on all the weekends you still don't get them to be present. Our club team started preparing for regionials shortly after high school season was complete. We had conflicts with ODP practices being the same time as we were preparing for regionals. We were told club prevailed over ODP. Which in preparing for regionals should. People complaining about where practices were held, so much travel involved to get to practice etc........

#57836 08/17/04 11:28 AM
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I throw out this comment. I have had a lot of coaches both HS and Club tell me that ODP is a joke and my daughter should have nothing to do with it. I have actually found myself defending the ODP program to coaches, how sad is that? You will not get the best participation unless most of the coachs buy into the program. I have found most problems relating to time and money can be solved if people really want something to succeed. You have 3 groups of people that need to buy into the program: Coaches, Admins, and Atheletes. I think 10% of the coaches, 0% of the Admins, and 65% of the Atheletes actually care about ODP succeeding.

#57837 08/18/04 03:37 PM
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>>[Chapindad] I think 10% of the coaches [...] actually care about ODP succeeding.<<

What percentage of the clubs do you think care?

To put this another way...are you or anyone else out there aware of any clubs that are doing anything specifically, either positive or negative, associated with ODP?

#57838 08/18/04 10:19 PM
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Some clubs are bigger on ODP than others. The former GFC was a big supporter of ODP whereas St. Giles was less supportive over the past few years. Mount Pleasant seems to have a large support for ODP, at least in the boys program. I didn't see alot of support or advertisement from the club, but many of the coaches used being an ODP coach as a bullet on their resume, even if they haven't done anything with it in years.

#57839 08/18/04 10:33 PM
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I have talked to many people (parents mostly) about their experience in ODP. The vast majority of them agree to this point: ODP gives an extra amount of exposure, and it can help a player get a scholarship, but it is secondary in those things with respect to a good (very strong) club team. A strong club team will get you more looks and exposure than ODP. I would say that an exception to this might be if a player makes the region team, but we all know that there are very few from SC that do that. This history, or perception of ODP is a reason why many of the top players who already play on a top team that can go to the larger tournaments, do not choose ODP. I just paid $700 in July for my son to go to ODP region camp in Alabama. That's almost twice as much as some of the team or developmental camps around the area. My overall perception of the camp is that I essentially paid $700 for my son to try out for the region team. He did well, but didn't make it. Now I am not trying to bash ODP. ODP has brought expsoure to my son that the club did not. But if you can get on a top club team that gets to the major tournaments (read: CESA or a one off team as Mark Campbell likes to say) then that will give you a much better bang for the buck and you can spend your summers paying for the camps of the colleges that you might be interested in.

#57840 08/19/04 01:26 PM
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I agree completely. Although my daughter is only a U15, her team is attending (already accepted) to WAGS and Nike Labor Day-Greensboro. As state champs, we anticipate acceptance into the Raleigh tournament. These tournaments give the exposure needed at U16 and above. Additionally, with a son previously going through this, attendance of two camps per summer at schools the player is interested in playing for is much more economical and effective. My son's college coach is involved in the ODP process and he really only wanted him to attend his camp to watch him for a week. Bottom line, do what is necessary and what works. Just the opportunity to make a region team does not cut it. A couple of practices to prepare for region camp may be good for making friends, as some have stated, but is a terribly expensive way to meet other boys and girls.

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