SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP Midlands Soccer [Moved from Thread with **** in Name]

MC - I described my daughter's team in that manner, as I stated then, that we as a team believed them to be too young to be playing Premier. That is the reason we "didn't even try." They were simply not realistically ready for it. I also stated that there is a lot more to life than soccer at that age. Thus, we chose the tournament route.
If you think my statement on CESA 89P could have even been close to "insulting" then you are reading something that I don't. Simple as that.
I am not about to get into an e-mail argument over this subject. If you wish to play "political analyst" and read more into a comment than was acually there or put a spin on it, that is your right. Really, it does not matter.
I am personally done with this subject as I have made my point. I think it is great that there are others out there that disagree with it. Hopefully, a few agree.

Soccerdog6: I apologize if I misunderstood what you said in any posting you made. I'll try one more time as well to increase the clarity of the discussion. Again, I'm not trying to "argue" or be a "political analyst" -- I'm sorry if I came across that way earlier -- I'm simply trying to shine a bright light on something that might be a bit dark. Here are portions of two posts you made regarding Premier League play and your team.

quote:

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[9/2/2004] Playing in the Premier League, to us, is no special thing, at least this year. Instead, we are focusing on playing in the G'boro, CASL and WAGS tournaments. We found at Regionals that we are not that far behind the best of the rest. It was a learning experience that is being used to currently improve our team.

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quote:

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[9/6/2004] It was about expense, primarily and travel. As it is now, traveling to five tournaments is a very expensive proposition. In the premier league this would have them traveling basically every weekend with at least one night stay-over. I mean, this is not a pro or college team and they are still young with budding social lives and homework. If we pull off the state cup this Fall, we may very well go into the PL and cut back on the tournaments somewhat.

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My point was only that if you want parents to travel 90+ miles several times a week to come to MPSC and play, the level of "seriousness" may need to go up a notch. I'm speaking only of myself here -- someone who had a kid who considered MPSC at one point and thinks a lot of many of the kids and teams there. Heck, I got on this summer and spoke about the impressive things MPSC did in the girls challenge cup this spring.

To your point, "The point I am trying to make is SC does not have the numbers, even with regional clubs, to compete with the big dogs." I understand that this could be a new belief based on events since the September postings. You could absolutely be right. Clubs from larger metropolitan areas certainly dominate the Soccer America Top #20. However, CASL, Edmond (the 2004 U15 national runner-ups), and other clubs from relatively small [sub-1M population MSA's] metropolitan areas may disagree. I just haven't spoken to many from the upstate who are willing to simply give up and concede superiority, particularly in the future, at this point.

P.S. If this is an inappropriate venue for this discussion, I apologize -- I tried private messaging but it wasn't enabled.

ARRRRRRGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

The topic is about merger in Cola. area, which turns into a CESA Lovefest, and now we have dueling barbs hurled by CESA and MPSC proponents against each other????

Mark,
The point of available training sessions right now is a bit misleading isn't it?
Only reason to train right now is for those state champ teams who might need to get to keep their touch for Regonals.
MPSC teams playing in Christmas tournaments are stll practicing.

Kids that are best at rec should have good rec teams to play on. Kids that are challenge classic should have good challenge coaches and good challenge leagues to compete in. Extraordinary kids that want the most out of what they can bring out in themselves need extraordinary clubs, coaches and training schedules. Great redneck players need Camels rolled up in the sleeve of their underarmour and two fisted tobacco chewing/cussing country coaches to inspire them to their redneck best. A perfect club structure will bring all of these things to all of these kids and more.

lpaf

Shaker wisdom. " 'Tis a gift to be simple, 'tis a gift to be free. 'Tis a gift to come down where you ought to be. "

Just as a little heads up, I live in the north now, specifically Wisconsin, and I have actually been a ref for some Chicago FC teams, and I was not overly impressed. They were good, but did not live up to what I thought they were going to be by the way that everyone talks them up. I wouldn't say that they are that much better than most of the premier SC teams, if they are even better at all. Their coaches are generally rude, and don't have a lot of respect for the refs or other coaches. I had a coach argue with me about a call, and when I told him the discussion was finished, tell me that I didn't know who he was, and how influentual he could be. How much more arrogant can you be? I would much rather ref or play against any team in SC than those teams.

FEAR - What drives some people and deprives other people..... You can say that of people reading threads (never posting just reading due to the unleashing that can take place) and of parents chasing the merger of tomorrow (don't wont to be left behind). This is my first "POST"! I have been reading for about two(2) years! This is meant for discussion and not attacks! It will be direct and only my opinion - not gospel!!! The last few weeks has encouraged me to voice a few thoughts today! I have been trying to get a sense of this "grass is greener on the other side" thing. The direction the last few post(s) are going has lead me to the following: Many people in CESA and many outside of CESA are "OD'ing" on pure CESA propaganda! Propaganda is meant to methodically promote a cause (CESA) and/or disrupt/injury another (other SCYSA Clubs). 1) CESA is understaffed and over worked. Additional players were brought in from out of area to support a few teams. Other than that - Challenge teams were merged Classic teams removed or kept together and recreation teams forced to play in house. Trainers over teamed and having to pick and being told which team to train. 2) Trainers, NOT coaches, - have too many teams and can not focus on growing/training all of their assigned children! Many can not complete pre-season evaluations will not do post-season evaluations for many players. The "committed to no more than three(3) teams and will equally train" idea did not work as planned. A great deal of scrimmaging between teams and some teams not even having a trainer to show up during the week. 3) CESA pulling ALL U14 and below recreational players out of Greenville County Recreation League(GCRD) and forcing them to play in-house. The in-house league has a four(4) goal scoring rule for all teams. So a team can not beat another by more than four goals. CESA ended up, reluctantly, placing the U16 and U18 teams in GCRD after they did not have enough in their in-house league. How many recreation titles did CESA take home? How many articles and accolades were written and posted about the recreation side? 4) Trainers training higher level teams and volunteer coaches helping lower level teams. 5) CESA proposing to give their MeSA Soccer Complex to GCRD for them to take over (either in a lease or sale w/Greenville residents flipping the bill by using tax payer money to finance - (This deal is still in the works) - also looking at using Accommodation Tax for purchase). This is all being done in late political arm twisting before a County Council member lost her seat. 6)CESA focus on "elite" players pooled together to win a trophy and enhance a resume'. 7) Recruiting out of area players i.e. all over SC,NC,GA & TN just to chase the elusive win. Some just showing up for games. Where is the"I" in Team? 8) Focus on Regional and National play that is pushed by staffed employees. 9) Trainers in a resume' feeding frenzy of who gets to train what team and who gets to travel with what team. 10) CESA focus on elite players. 11)Discarding potential good players due to the commitment of time to develop them into future players (this is done by cutting or not providing a team and looking outside of local area for players).

I could go on and on and so could many others. CESA is a business not a youth soccer club. People need to stop trying to cloak them in youth development, but in elite player development! CESA is not about merging youth soccer players! CESA is about merging the "ELITE" player and parent w/desire and wallet to play at the National level. Those players and parents need a place. Many talk of the merger as if it is best for ALL players. Many talk of how youth players love to look up to players in their club who are treated better with trainers, better quality uniforms, warm ups, bags, travel, money, attention, publicity and vaunt. CESA is a merger of people to financially support and fund the showcasing of few! The roster of three to five players will not work. Mega clubs need other youth players/parents to buy into the team idea in order to pool the money to finance the few. I do not just mean the player either - I am talking of the trainer ego. Resume building! Just review the web site and article published! Just review the past post that got this thread started. It is about "PLAYER" & "TRAINER" not team and community development, team/club loyalty, friendships, work ethic, teamwork and sticking with a team when times are tough or players are injured. It's about what team can I try out for next season and wonder who the trainer will be. It's about the quick fix to my childs potential soccer career. It is NBA, NFL MLS! Call it what it is! A business! But do not, call it a youth soccer club. Even CESA, Carolina Elite Soccer Academy, does not profess that concept! Their name dictates their focus and drive for elite development!

Regional and National soccer exposure is a grand goal to have. CESA has this goal! CESA is Elite! It is in their name! They should not be ashamed of their goal or drive for the elite! They should be ashamed of letting people think they are very interested in the development and training of all youth soccer players at every level of play. But - I do not think they have ever said they want to be all to all. I think it has been other parents drunk off the water believing those tales. South Carolina will only obtain Nat'l & Regional recognition through the merging of "ONE STATE CLUB"! Yes! I said it! This club will be the merger of elite players training together off to themselves with the elite trainers! Keep in mind their world is different! Both player,trainer and parent thinks differently! They need their own facilities away from the common soccer player! At that time, those players will compete against the other elite players(the pecking order will still exist)! In time past - SCYSA and parents called this ODP! Parents, Players & trainers are now calling this CESA! CESA can have satellite training facilities in Columbia & on the Coast! The merger will provide the facilities to train these players and boundaries and colors are no longer a factor! The members have been programmed and adapted to Team A and Team B. Problem: It takes money, power, control and some stupidity on members to buy into this takeover.

One might ask - how do we do this! Do tell! The money comes from the dumb down recreation league, player and parent who's programs are nothing. These programs must fall in order for the club to go in house. The club must go in house to make more money. Yes! It is sold off the concept of better training and game focus. We can then control the entire player pool. We all remember how we got lured to the trough of soccer propaganda! Has it been that long for us! I remember as I played and drank from it. I go back to mid 1970 when I started! It was still pure! The last 10 years has brought the big money into the program! The machine is at work and the parent does the following: My son or daughter is 11 or 12 and "only" has a few more years to play! If I do not get them (Individual) onto that team(full of individuals) to be showcased I am doomed. The level of play is so low and bad. I need to step up and reach deeper in my pocket to provide for them. The seed has been planted that the level of play is bad and your child is wasting their time. Keep in mind the adults are typically saying this not the child(keep in mind a few children might see & say the above). Then the coveted day arrives when you look up from your chair on the sideline and the trainer and crystal ball come walking in your direction. You perk up and start to look to your side. Is it me they are walking toward? Yes! It appears so. You tell your self "I have been waiting on this day"! I - I mean we are in the inner circle! You can not wait to tell your child and coworkers what has happened! You now get to practice over there - over with the elite! The roster must grow to collect great fees! After a while, the parent and player realize they are still not in the inner circle(there are higher levels of play) - they must work harder and pay more to provide. They just are not satisfied - they are not "IN". Then the next call comes and the invitation extended, but it does have a cost! Time, money, commitment, travel, leaving the family & siblings, stay away from home, leaving other sports behind, and school work and friends will find a place! Another roster is filled in the elite circle of contestants. The people below have been called up and the positions are filled. The roster is smaller this time.. You are told the level of play is so high many just do not make it! Your proud, but later find you still are not "IN".......... By now many of you are asking where the heck is the circle and who are these people and players. Some used to call it tournament/travel teams! Some used to call it ODP! Some used to call it Classic Soccer! Some call it Challenge Soccer! Some call it Premier League! OH! Is it Super Y? It must be the National or Regional team! Is it CESA?

As long as parents are willing to finance a dream and the trainer/club can sleep at night, the elite circle will be the Golden Carrot of Soccer Life! It is OK to have a goal for your child. It is better to support your child(s) goal(s). Do not force mergers down the throat of 90% to 95% of the soccer population. That majority enjoys South Carolina soccer with the occasional travel tournament in or out of state. Leave the Club concept alone. The pride of a local club with local players winning and competing against the giants is great. Let the majority play competitive soccer and compete against other clubs. Last time I checked with the children, they still enjoyed club rivalries. They enjoy playing teams with different uniforms! They enjoy playing for their high school! They like knowing who is on their team. These players are growing tired of adults telling them what level of play is bad and a waste of time. They are starting to figure out it is about the pay check or the ego! They are cluing in to the fact it is not about the player. A club can always find a player to replace another player.

CESA is running a business for the elite. Let CESA continue and all will continue to be a feud with the elite! CESA is just a piece of the puzzle. A BIG STATE run merger is the ONLY way many think SC can compete Nationally and Regionally. Tomorrow will bring a new look, a new name, a higher fee, a new trainer and a larger geographic player pool. The days of players guest on out of state teams are coming to a close. Many parents are sacrificing the child to join the out of state team and show up for games. Premier teams have players from all over on the roster and some still have guest positions available to win certain tournaments. Man the water is cloudy!

Sad part of the above: Conforming and giving up to the 5% of TRUE elite player pool is destroying the development and joy youth soccer brings to children. Children have enough labels at school and in life. Do not make them feel inferior to play soccer below the elite level. Has it ever occurred to the elitist that the commoner does not have to look up to them as Gods, but as fools! Just read the condescending elitist talk in the quotes from the paper and on the wed site. Sooner or later these clubs will be held accountable or sued for non performance. Families are sacrificing big money (thousands) and family relationships to get that final call from the University. CESA's two prong approach to state monopoly is working: 1) Take any elite player willing to travel and pay and CESA will eventually win. 2) Need tournament money and one big club to finance the elite player. Remember that the entire SC player pool is smaller than many clubs in other states. The question that should be asked is: Why are elite Premier teams composed of regional players allowed to compete in SCYSA Cups? Do not give me the OH that is the only way to get to Nationals and Regional. Please! If a all South Carolina team composed of players in the clubs area, cannot compete Regionally/Nationally then that club needs to train and develop their respective players better. Not going to the ends of the earth to find a live, willing and paying body to show up to a game. How can people read the CESA accolades and say - Man that Greenville, SC team is playing great soccer. It needs to read WOW! That South Carolina Club has put together a great regional team. No wonder they beat the other small teams. The small teams need to be honored to hold the CESA teams to the close games. Do you realize the amount of money and geographic area some of those teams had to go to to just beat the smaller teams. I would congratulate the small clubs for competing. CESA should have KILLED every team with what they have tried to put together. Why stop with Premier teams. Let clubs recruit players from around the globe in Challenge, Classic and Recreation and take each one to regional play. What a concept! I mean fair for one is fair for all! Right! Let's let Division I schools play Division III schools in the NCAA Championships! I congratulate the Clubs who competed with great pride in the Cup! Keep your head up as you are a winner. No wonder CESA was so complementary of the other Clubs. CESA knew what the other small teams did not. CESA should have been embarrassed by not running away with the score. By first half, CESA should have been playing possession soccer and scoring after 15 to 20 passes. Yes! They complement the others! They quietly thank God they pulled through a few of the games. The other players and parents just do not realize the Goliath they were up against. Hold your head high and parents hug your players neck! Players say thank you to your parents for not giving up on your area team. Tell your club thank you for not giving up and continuing to train players to combat these giants. Hold your head high when you play against players who refuse to commit their talent to your local club instead to journey to a far away land to feast from the table of the elite. Remember that you did not give up on your area. Your competitive heart and desire will keep the blood pumping in your areas local youth soccer player. Good training and a well coached team playing for a cause will eventually beat a group of individuals playing for oneself!!!!!!!!!

I am flinching in anticipation for the blows to come. Do not worry for long - USL Super Y - League is the NEW and growing focus for the elite play. Signing off.

Man!!! What an awesome post. I don't agree with a word of it , but man that was awesome.I felt like I was reading The Communist Manifesto. Power TO The People.

A an U10 boys coach for CESA I wouldn't agree with the being forced to play in-house statement. We had 24 for teams in our age group, mostly from the club with a few from Anderson and Bob Jones. I loved the fact that we knew we were playing every game at MESA. If you truly go back to the 70's, assuming it was in Greenville, you must remember how awful it was to play at Northside one week, Washington Heights the next, somewhere out near Moonville the week after that, and finally up near T.R. I don't miss that at all. Does the Rec. program have flaws? Maybe. Playing in-house it not one of them.

Seethepitch -- AMEN!!! Your words ring true and certainly raise the warning flag in regards to the inherent danger of youth club soccer in SC. I have never read a more accurate depiction of this growing crisis. You are to be commended for coming forth and stating this viewpoint. Hopefully some will see that 95% is greater than 5% and that's who we need to cater to, not the elite. If CESA wants that role, so be it, but it's not for the majority!