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who does everyone think will be good this year? cesa and mpsc will fair well in their respective league. who do you think will fair well in the challenge league?

Good luck to MPSC.They will find Premier League to be extremely challenging,but fun. When you face the Concordes and CASL's of the world, you quickly find out who has what it takes to play at the highest level.

Does anyone have any information about the CSC team? With Zack Prince and Christian Monroe be playing there again? Also, is Jamal Geathers too old to play u18, if not, anyone know where he will be come fall season?

Zach,yes. Christian, ?... Jamal, not at CESA or CSC, so possibly look at Atlanta for him. Nobody knows for sure..

I talked to christian monroe today(weird..i know ran into him at the dentist office) he said he isn't sure about playing for CSC and i also asked him about that Atlanta club..he said he was thinking about playing in the state cup with them.

who else do you guys think...csc will no doubt finish at the top due to them being in the PL last year...what about the other teams..who are the others that could contend in the SCSCL

Necsa was outstanding this past year, and if their players return, it isn't certain that CSC will win the group. Necsa didn't lose a match in league play (i believe, correct me if I'm wrong) and had 5 or less goals scored against them (again, correct me if I'm wrong).

csc will win "no doubt"? nah not "no doubt". there are a few teams that could beat them. just because they were in the PL last year doesnt automatically qualify them for first place. necsa will definitely give them a run for their money, and there could be a couple other teams in there that will also.

on a side note, does anyone know all of the teams that are gonna be in the challenge league this year? i think at least one team dropeed out, did anyone replace them?

If you all are talking about U17 Concord Fire (Atlanta) - they did not place in the top two in Georgia. They did not make it out of their group play. So this year as U18's they will not be playing in PL. (Unless somebody pulls some strings)

I would imagine Concorde would be extended an invitation to play Premier. They may or may not accept.
Interesting that the top 2 teams in Premier East did not repeat as state champ/Concorde and Renegades. West Kendall, the Fla state champ was not a Premier team last year.

It speaks worlds of GA soccer, if they have 2 boys u17 teams that are better than the concorde fire team that dominated the pl league going 9-0-0 with a 35-1 goal differential. But I HAVE heard that there is trouble going on in the concorde fire club as far as money and violations of some GA youth soccer rules (but these are rumors passed from ref to ref and are not necessarily accurate).

[Link to GYSA Announcement]

Congratulations to all the following Georgia teams accepted into the R3PL for the Fall 2005 season! (07/15/2005)

Sex Age Team Name
Boy U15 GSA Phoenix Red 91
Boy U15 Concorde Fire Elite

Boy U16 Silverbacks '08 Elite
Boy U16 Concorde Fire Elite

Boy U17 Cobb FC Chiefs Gold
Boy U17 Atlanta Fire United Elite
Boy U17 GSA Phoenix Red 89

Boy U18 Forsyth Fusion 88 Gold Elite
Boy U18 Silverbacks '06 Elite
Boy U18 Norcross Fury Gold
Boy U18 Concorde Fire Elite

Girl U15 Norcross Magic Gold 91
Girl U15 Silverbacks '09 Elite
Girl U15 Tophat 09 Gold

Girl U16 Tophat 08 Gold
Girl U16 GSA Phoenix Red 90
Girl U16 Silverbacks '08 Elite
Girl U16 Atlanta Fire United 90 Elite

Girl U17 GSA Phoenix Red 89
Girl U17 Tophat 07 Gold
Girl U17 Silverbacks '07 Elite

Girl U18 PTC Lazers 88 Elite
Girl U18 Concorde Fire Elite
Girl U18 Cobb FC Lady Chiefs

does anyone know where christian monroe and jamal geathers are playing club ball?

Jamal will be in Atlanta some place

if you take a look at the rosters for the RIIIPL he is not rostered with forsyth,concorde,or siliverbacks..norcross is the only GA roster that is not up...what about monroe

I heard Cristian M. will play for concorde Fire Elite U-18

I heard Cristian will play for Concorde Fire Elite U-18....

he isn't on a georgia roster either, but I had heard the same rumor, does anyone know where he and jamal are really playing?

Christian-CSC Jamal-Alpharetta Ambush

Today's Results:

NECSA Ambush 3-3 CSC Burn Navy

Good match, was within one goal/tied the entire time. Goals: CSC-Lee Smith, Zack Prince, Andrew Evans, NECSA-Brett Keatly(sp?) 2, (can't remember maybe Patrick Clements?)

Even though both teams are very good, if the best of each team were combined by process of merger there could be a very strong team.

And if after the merger, the best players from that team merged with the best players from CESA, it would be even better. Next year, they can merge with Bridge for a statewide powerhouse. Unfortunately, they would have no one to play, and a lot of good players would be excluded, but that's okay.

Carrying this to its logical conclusion, Arsenal and Chelsea will be merging as the only team to be able to challenge the proposed Real Madrid / Barcelona juggernaut.

Sometimes, competition within the same area results in good games. Let it go.

If CSC, Necsa, and Lexington merged for a "columbia Bridge" club, then it would make for a competitive premier club from the midlands, that is what I'd like to see.

[lurker] And if after the merger, the best players from that team merged with the best players from CESA, it would be even better. [...]

This is known as the "slippery slope" logical fallacy, in particular what is known as the "causal version" of this fallacy. This type is based upon the claim that a controversial type of action will lead inevitably to some admittedly bad type of action. It is the slide from A to Z via the intermediate steps B through Y that is the "slope", and the smallness of each step that makes it "slippery." [Source: Fallacy Files.]

I prefer the following argument to make your case: if the best players in a specific age bracket and gender cared enough to play on a single team, then there is nothing stopping them from all talking to each other and trying out for that single team. Until this begins to consistently occur, there is apparently little demand for mergers to occur.

What about the CRSA kids from downtown? They are pretty good too, and several that grew up at Congaree are starring at CSC now - especially on the girls side!

Add Discoveries, Northside and Tega Cay to the CSC/Necsa/Lexington merger as well. This will eliminate another whole region of the state and allow scheduling to be so much easier (less teams to worry about).

Of course, eventually (with apologies to The Slippery Slope Theory) there will not be any teams left to play.

CESA...Bridge...COLA

Round-robin matches every Saturday!

"People can have the Model T in any color - so long as it's black." [Henry Ford]

Here's an interesting question: does the balkanization of soccer clubs in the Fort Mill area lead to more choice or less choice for players?

Or, to put this another way, if you have 100 manufacturers each producing approximately the same product, do you have more choice than if you have only a handful of manufacturers producing very different products?

With 3 clubs in Rock Hill area, there are of course more choices for the players. But what is the result? The result is the same as in Cola. area..........dilution of the talent pool to such a degree that you produce average, but not great teams.
Chico, regarding your statement that players should talk among themselves about all moving to one club to produce a great team.....kids do a lot of 'talking' about what they may want, but are most often quite reluctant to back up that 'talking'. Plus they aren't the best planners/motivators in the world!

Chico, not saying the consolidation of the three clubs in the Fort Mill area would be a bad thing. It would be nice to have another entity that could stay on the same field with CESA.

2004striker has consistently professed that the state of South Carolina needs 3 Super Clubs (Charleston-Columbia-CESA).

I say.............why not 4?

2004striker: I'm not sure that I agree that more clubs means more choices for players if those clubs are not offering different services to those players. It seems to me that the only way you get more choices is through different service offerings - and it doesn't matter if it's one big club or lots of small clubs. But I could be missing something here.

The one thing I noticed in Greenville before CESA was ever formed was that many [most?] of the most ambitious players cared enough to typically gravitate toward the best team. I can remember SGU having an amazing team in one gender/age bracket, or GFC having an amazing team in one gender/age bracket -- but it seems to me less common for their to be two strong teams in one gender/age bracket.

I guess I'm positing [and only positing] that the issue with offering higher levels of competitive soccer in the Columbia area may be [and only ***may be***!] fewer people who want those services when compared to the upstate or the coast. In other words, the people who run the Columbia clubs might be dead right when they decide not to merge, because they know that for their customers convenience and other factors are much more important than competing regionally or nationally.

Hurst66: That U15B team from DSC seems as if they can stay on the field with anyone!!!

I do understand...and maybe the issue is less having three clubs in this area than having one club that is really trying to compete regionally or nationally. In the past, that's been Charlotte [CSC], but they seem to be getting weaker instead of stronger. I hear great things about some of the teams at FC Carolina Alliance out of Charlotte; maybe they'll be able to step up more in the coming months and years. But of course, I'd love to see a South Carolina club up there do it -- for the simple, incredibly biased reason that I'm from South Carolina!

Chico,
I sadly concur with your assessment that the people who run the Cola. area clubs do believe that they are adequately serving their communities. I do believe, however, that CSC once welcomed a merger that would serve all the area interests. Yet, the other area clubs have too many various self concerns to be interested in a larger, grander vision for soccer in Cola. There is just not the passion here to produce high quality teams.....the kind of passion that is quite evident at CESA and now possibly beginning at Bridge.

2004striker, which clubs are looking after their self interests in Columbia? Seems to me that with five or six clubs (NECSA, CSC, CRSA, Lexington, Lower Lexington) in town that each have different goals and objectives. Can you explain a little furhter and be more descript? What more do you expect?

Things sure have changed since my son played at CMSA!

Cola fan,
Maybe self interest is not the correct word, because they naturally have the right to develop their own objectives and pursuits. And you are exactly right that there are 4,5 clubs well serving their respective communities and striving to accomplish their respective objectives. Maybe that is all that is possible and desired in Cola. It is just my own personal desire to see their objectives be broader and grander, and to seek to field the strongest teams from the Cola area. But again, that is not one of the objectives in Cola., as it is at CESA & BridgeFA. It is all a function of what is desired by the total soccer community in Cola., and at this moment in time the DOCs and parents only desire satisfactory, convenient soccer. But there I go again with the merger talk.........I will never learn. I attach for your review the copy of the letter posted here last year regarding CSC's efforts to work with the other clubs to set and seek higher goals for the Cola. soccer area. At least one DOC was interested in a higher quality of soccer in Cola. Yet, I do not believe there was much progress:

<posted February 13, 2004> Attached you guys will notice a letter I sent out to all Club Presidents and DoC's in the Columbia Metro Area! I want you all to know that we (CSC) would love to make this happen...the offer and on the table and hopefully we can get the ball rolling "together" here in Columbia?

....Good Morning Ladies and Gentlemen,
As you are well aware of by now St. Giles United Soccer Club and Greenville Futbol Club are well on their way to merging the two clubs into one super club. However, there are ways, that we in Columbia could unite our resources without taking away from anyone else. I feel at this time that Columbia Soccer Club has taken some steps to be just a slight bit ahead of the top clubs in Columbia and maybe in South Carolina compared to SGU and GFC. I'm not saying that Lexington, NECSA, Congaree and others are not, but I feel that CSC has taken some huge steps to provide the Columbia-Metro area kids an opportunity to play at the next level. Our coaching staff is maintains a minimum USSF C license or higher with most staff members carrying B and A or equivalent. We currently own our facilities with a 6 field complex, lights, paved parking, restroom and dining facilities. Also, we have received grant money to acquire two additional lite regulation fields along with two U10 fields as well. I know that all of you have great facilities as well! I know what great things you have to offer and I'm not disputing this, but if we shared resources: coaching, training, facilities, etc...the greater Columbia area would surely benefit? Please don't miss understand me. I'm not asking you to merge under CSC and drop your club affiliation. I'm asking you to consider our options. (What are those you may ask...?) I am proposing that we continue training the U11-14 at your various clubs for now. However, U15 and above would unite and play under one banner (which ever we decide) to compete at the regional and national level. While doing this our top coaches would be in charge of training/coaching the elite teams, while keeping their other club commitments as well. There are tons of options to work off this and this is only one idea! I'm sure you have your own and that is great, too!!! I think we all want to hear those! So, are we interested?
Sure, in the past we've all had a team here or there to challenge the upstate as well as a regional/national competitor. However, the time has come for us to put the KIDS first in our decision making. We can always work out logistics, money, training, etc...but we need to act on this to continue our development of the midlands youth. Together we can make this possible. I'm not doing this for personal gain, professional gain or any other alternative motives. Like all of you, I'm here for the kids and the advancement and development of our youth players to challenge and compete on a state, region and national level. As long as well keep this in mind and hire people with our same goals and vision... we will always keep our focus on the KIDS!

I have been in discussion with Kevin Demers from US Club Soccer and I'm very excited about our options to take our situation to the next level. He would like to meet with all of us. The sooner the better. He is working on a presentation and meeting for us to guide us (as a unbias professional) through this process. He has worked with Club soccer for numerous years and been in dealings with the likes of Concorde Fire, CASL, Charlotte and others. He, like us, is in it for the best interest of the kids. Attached is his email if you would like to contact him personally.

I look forward to hearing from all of you very soon. Please respond either way in regards to whether or not you would like to meet and your feelings regarding the meeting.

Respectfully Yours in the Game,

Eddie Crosby

Cola Fan: I can't answer the question concerning self-interests, because I have trouble with the semantics of the phrase. To me, all clubs pursue their self-interests, which is primarily to offer the services that their customers want or that they perceive that their customers will want in the future.

However, of the five clubs you note, it appears to me that the only one I think I truly understand is Lower Lexington -- it seems to be a geographically-oriented club that offers convenience to those in a traditionally underserved area. The one that I understand the second best [I think!] is CRSA; it seems to be primarily a high school feeder club.

CSC, Lexington, and NECSA have often appeared to me to be more of a loose aggregation of teams pursuing wildly different objectives than clubs in which there are club-wide objectives to which teams subscribe. I have seen CSC attempt to step up to a more cohesive model in which the club as a whole pursues regional competition; I believe that this is the reason that in the past they were more open to non-organic change than other clubs.

I have no doubt that I'm ignorant on this score; I hope someone will correct any of my misinterpretations or misinterpretations with facts.

This has quickly gotten outside the subject of U18 challenge information. However as with 2004striker, I will put my two cents in.

I believe the model that will work best for the Cola area is a Bridge model, assuming it is succesful. This will provide the 'choice" that Chico is referring to for the player (and the parents who foot the bill) as to the direction they would like to go.

The problem is not that dissimilar to ODP pool.
(A whole different subject.)

Nevertheless, Chico if you look at the map again, you will note that the majority of the smaller clubs do not offer anything above classic ball.

At the challenge and Premier level of play, CESA leads the way with 25 teams (23%), CSC is next with 14(13%), Bridge 11(10%), NECSA 8 (7%), Lex 7 (7%) with thee remaining clubs all having 5 or less

61% of the teams in the higher levels come from 5 clubs. 3 of these clubs are in the Cola area.

A merger of LCSC and CSC (geography)will yield the same numnber of teams as CESA without loss of numbers, and one can argue increased competitivenes.

Other numbers:

25% of the teams come from the low country.
42% from the midtstate (N. Augusta to Rock Hill area)
33% from the piedmont
(all classical definitions of the old 3 tier division of the state)

Assuming 16 players per team - there are 1712 players in the upper levels.

Looking at these numbers a set-up similar to bridge in Cola may benefit all involved without loss of numbers and teams.

futbol(soccer): Great post and excellent breakdown/analysis.

There is little doubt that some form of cooperation, whether it be through merger or affiliation, could theoretically increase the competitiveness of Columbia-area soccer. The fundamental question I have is whether there are enough players [and the parents that support them] who care about increasing the competitiveness of Columbia-area soccer to make this worthwhile.

There seem to me to be two fundamental models of Columbia-area soccer clubs that appear on this board from time to time:

• That they are led by power-hungry idiots who care more for their financial empire than "the kids."
• That they are offering what their customers ["the kids"] want and that an incredibly small minority of outspoken parents criticize but are not representative of the whole.

I honestly don't believe the former is an adequate model; while it has the advantage of being simple, I don't believe that all of these people giving their time and energy are either stupid or only after short-term financial gain.

When SSC and JIYSC formed Bridge each had the advantage of having a similar vision -- of offering services to more highly ambitious kids. When SGU and GFC formed CESA each had the advantage of a similar vision -- SGU had their "2006" program to win a regional championship and GFC had done the incredibly rare thing of winning a regional championship. But underpinning all of this was the fact that SGU and GFC also decided that they wanted to be able to reach more kids at all competitive levels than they could by themselves.

In Columbia, it's much tougher to find clubs with this type of similarity of vision. CSC at a club level is largely unencumbered with municipal fields and with local politics and seems to have the clearest vision. NECSA and LCSC at a club level are encumbered -- while not as much as MPSC, they would still have significant hurdles to overcome -- more so for LCSC than for NECSA, from what I remember of the political firestorm that those new fields potentially represent. So even if the leaders of NECSA and LCSC agreed to merge or affiliate with CSC based on offering services to more highly ambitious players [which they spurned a year or so ago], I think it would be tough to execute. I do agree with you that an affiliate model in this circumstance is more appropriate than a merged model; I'm simply not sure if there is a common enough vision in order to create and sustain an affiliation.

futbol,
Just a brief note about the proposed alliance model. I do not believe that an alliance with just CSC & LCSA would improve overall competitiveness in the Cola area. NECSA should be a part of the equation, as well.

2004striker

I do not disagree, I just used the geography as a means of combating the travel argument someone would have. Adding NECSA into the mix creates in my mind a potential powerhouse.

Chico
Municipal restrictions aside (if any). Although I agree on both points about the Cola brain trust, I have to say that the former seems to be more prevalent than the latter (at least from discussions I have had in the past). Pearce and Andrew did a fine job in the upstate. I'll let Bear comment on the Bridge issue (I have my own opinion about a CofC force, which I will keep to myself) as it is still in its infancy.

The key is to set a specific rule such as Bridge by not doing classic and CESA by keeping Classic labeled teams in Classic, that will make the "classic" club comfortable in the service it provides.

So what is the key to these two clubs. Both have strong willed people who decided what was best for the area and stuck to it (in CESA's case you can argue econmically succesful as well). There is no such individual or group in the Midlands, except for one person, who I would think could stand to gain the most benefit, but has been strangely mum. I believe if this individual were to galvanize the clubs a succesful bridge model could arise with little to no loss in numbers.

I guess I am starting to sound like 04striker now.

There is one bit of data that will need to reviewed in 2 years. How many players drop out because they do not want to go through the travel and cost of playing CESA and Bridge if they cannot break the upper echelon.

Futbol,
I do agree that NECSA would make the alliance a possible powerhouse. And you don't want to sound too much like me cause you will subjected to the wrath of the social conservatives in Cola. soccer circles who desire convenient, satisfactory soccer.

[futbol(soccer)] There is one bit of data that will need to reviewed in 2 years. How many players drop out because they do not want to go through the travel and cost of playing CESA and Bridge if they cannot break the upper echelon.

Several years ago if I lived in Columbia and had a highly ambitious child who wanted to play regionally and nationally competitive soccer my choices within a 100 mile radius was Charlotte -- or I could cross my fingers and hope that a Columbia, Greenville, or Charleston "blue moon" team existed near my child's age/gender. Now if I'm in that same situation there is another choice in Greenville, and what I hope is an emerging choice in Charleston. Things seem to be getting better.

I don't think that self-delusion is a profitable philosophy to teach children. The truth is that South Carolina has been largely a joke in terms of soccer at the regional and national level. Heck -- read the Georgia message boards now and you'll see some folks are still laughing. Our kids playing soccer have understood that; there's hasn't been a lot of pride being known as a South Carolina player at region camp or losing 10-0 in RIIIPL or getting blown out in the first round at regionals.

Will we lose some players because their self-esteem is damaged when they begin losing by greater amounts to better South Carolina teams? It could be [doesn't make sense to me, but I'm trying to be open to the probability] -- but it could also be the catalyst to wake up complacent players and parents so that more South Carolina players understand just how far we have to go to become regionally and nationally competitive.

To use an analogy from another sport. Did the entry of Tiger Woods onto the PGA tour cause the competitive level of the tour to become stronger or weaker? Most analysts say stronger. I think that the same could be true for South Carolina soccer. Then again, at last year's state cup, I didn't see many blow-out's -- so I think all clubs have a way to go.

I'd like to hear what some of the high school coaches in Columbia think about this. Particularly Savitz, Heise, Darlington, and Clark since they've been around awhile and more than likely have players involved on these teams. Let's let these guys weigh in on what needs to be done from their perspective.

charleston united victorious over Necsa Ambush, 3-1

where do the players from Charleston United play high school ball?

Mostly James Island...but some play at other schools...they r a good team

o, hi

14 of the players are from the James Island High School team. The other four are from other High Schools.

14 from the same HS team? How do they get around the "8-man rule"? Did these players not dress for a single varsity game last year? Explain.

is the high school coaching them? The rule applies to coaching, not players playing together. So you could have 22 players from one high school playing on a u17 or 18 club team as long as the coach of the high school was not coaching the club team. Hope this covers up some confusion.

No, the High School Coach is NOT coaching them. So the "8-man Rule" does not apply. They have the same Coach they have had since they were small boys. This team has been together for many years. Just decided to go to another club after Bridge FA formed. It is the last year for alot of the boys and they wanted to finish their season together as a team.

I don't coach them. Mansour Haidary coaches the team. He is a great coach and has developed this group of players very well. The high school program is very greatful for his hard work.