SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP How to avoid coach/parent/player bad actions on the field

Since everyone talks about a constructive topic on this subject, and nobody has started one yet, I decided to start a new thread. What do you all think would be an effective way to prevent what was "alleged" to have happened at a certain game where a player was "allegedly" struck? While we are on the subject, how can you keep the parents from getting out of hand at games? It has been my experience that a lot of parents are getting to the point of being very belligerant and threatening at times. I sometimes just go to watch club games where I live to watch good games, and to see how the other refs are reffing. Some of these parents are getting out of hand. What I noticed though was that most teams that had parents that were out of hand had coaches that were complete jerks. How can we prevent this from happpening?

Someone e-mail Dr. Phil.. he'll know what to do.

Well, I have observed that some coaches and parents come to games not so much to play the game as to see how obnoxious and intimidating they can be be, especially towards the ref. I guess they feel like they paid their $500 bucks and they have a right to make any comments without any rebuke or penalty. No matter what sport it is, it is of course natural to pull for your respective team to win. Yet, when calls don't go your way every time or your child is fouled or when your team plays bad, you as a parent, can't blame it on the coach who may have not prepared the team well enough or did not practice the team enough, and you certainly don't want to blame your perfect children for not being ready to play or because they missed several practices. So who else is there to take out your frustrations on? The refs of course!! But, to address the issue proposed by soccerboy........I think it has to come from the DOC and the club officials what will be the expected conduct for parents, players and coaches. You can have several responsible parents appointed as monitors of conduct on the sidelines. It is not an easy job, but it must be done. Also, there should be more emphasis and direction from SCYSA regarding the seriousness of some of these recent incidents. I am not aware of the specific guidelines from SCYSA concerning conduct and any penalties for club infractions. Anyone have any info on the specific guidelines?

LE dudeman,
Think hard before you answer this question -
Have you ever made a constructive comment in your entire life?

I think the first thing that must happen is for the coach to speak to the parents pre-season and let them know his expectations. He/She needs to let them know that he is the coach and he will be the one to discuss "incorrect" calls with the refs and it's not up to the parents to call the Refs out. He also needs to remind parents that if their behavior is obscene or obnoxious that he reserves the right to have them removed from the field and their child removed from the team no matter how good they are. I have coached in the past and I don't care if the kid is the best player on the field, if you have to deal with an obnoxious parent it just isn't worth the trouble. Let the kid put some pressure on the parent to behave. I've seen it happen where a parent is irate over a call and the kid runs down the sideline and says, "Just be quiet. It's over." That "embarrassed" the parent into shutting up.

LE Dudeman,
Benp lippen mentioned that all the parents were removed from a game last week, due to conduct and threats. This incident happened after the Aiken incident. NOW is the time to make constructive comments because it will not be a joke when some crazed, out of control parent or coach harms someone physically, i.e the hockey parent situation. This should be viewed proactively and not reactively.

First rule of business. Whatever happens at the lower level is being thought by the higher levels. So I guess to start we need to look at the different levels of positions within USYSA soccer.

Top down

1. USYSA
2. SCYSA
3. Club Board Members
4. Club DOC
5. Coaches
6. Team Manager and Refs
7. Parents
8. Players
9. Fans

I don't think USYSA is the problem.

SCYSA has talked to all the Coaches, Clubs, and Team Managers about toning it down or else they will lose their bonds. I do think there is a frustration with SCYSA in some of their decisions and for the most part very lacking communication skills. They tend to be more reactive to a problem then pro-active. This frustration could be being vented on the field since SCYSA does seem to give any other place to vent. For example, they annonce they are having a SCYSA meeting on Spet 10th in the "SCYSA Newspaper" which most people got on Sept 11th.

But not all clubs seem to have the problem. I have noticed in my years of watching the sport that if one team is a problem team then most likely a lot of the teams from that club are a problem. I blame this squarely on the club board of directors. The club hires the DOC and the DOC sets the tone for the coaches. The coaches then set the tone for the parents and the players will follow their coaches first and parents next.

Almost without fail if I hear a player mouthing off at the opposing parents or Ref, you will hear giggles from the sideline by that players parent and a coach that does nothing. I know for a fact that if a player mouths off on a Heather Fredrick team and she sees it, you better be ready to get your tail chewed because she can't sub you fast enough and won't be holding back. I have seen her make a girl cry because she was using foul language of the field.

I do think the coach has the most direct control of the game and is the most responsible for the actions of the parents and players but the coach is getting direction from his/her DOC and it turn the board of directors.

I will say this also. I believe a REF has a responisiblity to keep control of the game and everyone on the field. I have seen to many REFs that will let a game get out of control. SCYSA needs to train the REFs to call more obvious and tighter fouls. I have seen teams that count on a REF to not make calls and be able to bully their way through a game. Those same teams will lose when a REF calls a tight game and requires them to play soccer, which in the end is what is best for the sport and SC.

Now the question is how do you fix it. I thinking better training for the REFs on calling fouls. But for clubs, SCYSA needs to hit them in the pocket book. Start taking more bond checks each team posts and if a team loses its bond based on misconduct then take the club bond also. REFs should also send in a card to SCYSA rating the team behaviors between 1 and 10. If the team posts 3 bad ratings then pull the bond.

Thats it for now.

LE Dude, I was just providing a forum for those that have some good ideas to express them. I have no connection to anything that was expressed on the other thread besides having an opinion. I just think it would be interesting to see what some of the ideas might be to keep some of these situations from arising. There was a slight bit of sarcasm when I started the topic, but it should be interesting to see all the different ideas.

You may want to start here SCYSA code of Ethics

I am not sure many people read it.

BY the way if you scroll down you will also find the parents code of conduct.

Dr. Phil would reply to this thread in the following way...
1. Set clear expectations of conduct
2. Set clear consequences of breach of conduct.
3. Enforce consequences when expectations are not met.
note: Do not use 3 strike rule when bad behavior happens as this only leads to mixed messages.

From the SCYSA website these are the listed penalties for infractions. Those guidelines are good to have in place, but it is up to each club to make sure all involved see and hear the rules of conduct. I would assume that some teams/clubs are being monitored now as a result of the recent incidents.

<In the event a coach, player, parent or administrator violates or breeches the intent, the spirit, or rules of the SCYSA Code of Ethics and Conduct, one or all the following consequences may occur:

Probation. A warning and stipulated period of time where soccer activities may be monitored.

Suspension. A stipulated or indefinite period of time when ALL soccer activities in any capacity are prohibited.

Fine. Monetary penalty.>

It has been my experience that SCYSA doesn't enforce anything until it is to late. Last year SCYSA had a record number of red cards at the state cup games and one bench clearing brawl. They are threatening to be tougher this year but I will believe it when I see it. Plus by the time the state cup comes around things have already been set into motion and very hard to stop.

BTW if you see no value in this topic then don't post. Posting stupid comments is only a reflection on yourself.

From the practical point of view...As a team manager for many years...I had to deal with NEW mouthy parents every year. Even tho the club president, along with the team coach would have a meeting before the season started, and spell out behavior expectations, there were always people who JUST DIDN'T GET IT!! But a few tactful words and reminders, and examples of behavior from other "veteran" parents always seemed to solve the problem. Support from the top-down is very important. Only once in 10 years did a situation get so bad that I had to warn a parent that they were close to being asked to leave the field(and believe me..I said it in a tactful, joking way). The next week they removed their child from the team. I guess the important thing is to be consistant so everyone knows what to expect. Bottom line...the players like to hear encouraging cheering from the sidelines...and are embarassed by anything else.

You either have noble intentions, or you allow the sport to be dominated by thugs...I will throw my chips into the noble corner. It's unfortunate when you have to clear the sidelines as a referee because you can't take the swearing and other crap that the parents spout off. I have had to do that once. There are rules that have to be in place, and they need to start being enforced. You'll reach a time and a place where you will realize that there has to be some people on their "high horses" to keep everything in line.

Look.. I never said there was anything wrong with rules OR enforcing them. But I'm not going to sit here and pontificate with you guys about "methods"..that have already been established.

MY POINT IS: People have already talked about these things..they've made rules..they've made codes of conduct..they've pondered sporting ethics.. And we STILL have these incidents.

How many of you have read the SCYSA Code of Ethics?

I guess I'm just not sure what you guys are trying to accomplish..

LE Dudeman,
I do not think we are trying to accomplish anything specific. We are all just expressing our opinions and concerns relative to game situations that may arise. It is good to at least hear what approaches respective clubs take to deal with certain situations. But I understand your approach is to be reactive rather than proactive as a club.

Wow...pontificate...I feel like I am in a class discussing kings and queens of the dark ages. What exactly does pontificate mean you ask...?

"to speak or express opinions in a pompous or dogmatic way"

I am unclear as to where I was pompous (having or exhibiting self-importance) or was self involved with a dogmatic (a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds) approach. As far as I can tell, most individuals involved in this discussion are coming from the idea that they are either involved in soccer personally or have a child that is involved in soccer. I think that discussion is good, and possibly someone may take something out of this that can help reign in some of the unwanted behavior. As for who has read the code of ethics...I have. A brainstorming session is where the best ideas usually come from. This is basically a brainstorming session. It is always better to be proactive rather than being reactive. If you are always reacting, you do not have the proper vision to be in a position of authority. The less you have to react, the better eveeryone else is. That is paramount in market based management strategies, or even the Sigma Six ideaology. These ideas need to be somehow integrated into the soccer management system of the club organizations.

UUUUUGGGGGGHHHHH what a bore. You think little league baseball does this??? NO thier referees(umps/blue) have backbones and don't mind a little banter.

What ever your response 2004sucker....SAVE IT and use those words in your brochure for Columbia's ultimate Soccer Club. Then you can control EVERY PARENT that has paid thier $500 to sit nice.......

AND REMEMBER practice what you preach!!!!

I am out for a brown ale and some PRINGLES!!!!!

Cola Fan, if you don't have anything positive to add, I would appreciate it if you would just not add anything at all. If I wanted to focus on one individual, I would have started the topic with that person's name. I am trying to get a general overview of how to prevent such occurances in the future as per the topic. If you want to read more into it, feel free, but that isn't necessarily the reason for the topic.

To get back to the original question:

Several times as a spectator, as a coach and as a referee, I have reminded parents that if they would not yell something out at a school spelling bee, they should not yell it out at a youth soccer game. These two activities are not fundamentally different. That tends to quiet the unruly ones.

Before each season, I hand out my expectations to both players and parents. Three of the bullets on the list are:

- Parents are responsible for providing positive encouragement. If you want to yell out technical or tactical advice, I can get you a coach's pass, and you can sit on our side. You get extra bonus points for yelling "Well done!" to someone on the opposing team. Remember, it's all about sportsmanship.

- The referee is always right. Always.

- After the game, we shake hands with the other team. Win or lose, we hold our heads high, and say "Good game" with sincerity. We then thank the referee crew.

I have had a few problems with sportsmanship on my team and on my sideline, but if I stay on top of it, it never gets to the point of needing police intervention.

Honestly, I think the number of incidents involving coaches would drop dramatically if they were all required to also get certified as referees and work a few games a year. I know that I'm a lot more understanding of referees since I started doing it. The same advice could apply to parents, but I know how unrealistic that is.

Yo Shearer..allow yourself to be PMed so we can talk without these twats being present...

Hey guys, I finally realized what it takes to get rid of LE Dudeman and Shearer. All you have to do is make rational comments about any issue. That throws them off so much, that they have to crawl back in their holes and resort to their "private" conversations.
Shearer & your really bosum buddy LE,
I have found an appropriate soccer website that suits your tastes. You can post all you want in their diaries, since this forum is too complex for you.
http://www.ukrainiansoccer.net/diary/travel_diary.asp

Jack, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed yesterday? I noticed that you were a little angry. I know of a lot of people that would be offended by the t word you threw out there. Let us be constructive on the issue.....

Lurker, I think you are right about the whole refereeing thing. If coaches had to referee a game or two, they may have a little more understanding of the referee's plight. I think that some of the parents need to read the rules, and understand them before they go to the games. I was sitting through a U-12 girls game the other day, and all that I heard was "hand ball, hand ball" every time the ball hit someone on the hand, even if they were protecting their face and it was just a reflex action with no advantage. Or the whole idea of being in an offsides position but not active in the play is a hard one for parents to understand too....let alone if you ever give advantage...God forbid. Parents have no clue what this is, let alone a lot of referees don't fully grasp the concept either. I have had parents and some coaches go nuts when you give an advantage. Understand what it is, and how it may benefit your team before you go yelling about it. Soccer is much more popular now then it was in the last generation. Most of the parents now don't fully grasp the concepts of soccer because they never played themselves. If they better educate themselves, a lot of these problems would go away.

Soccerboy,

Question, and I'm not being sarcastic....just want to hear it from the referee's point of view. In a competitive U-12 girls match, if a ball is heading toward a girl's head and she puts up her hands to protect her face, and as a result, the ball drops right to her feet (or to the feet of a teammate), is it a handball?

Factor in that these girls are only 11 years old, but playing classic/challenge, not rec.

soccerboy you raise an interesting point about coaches needing to referee to appreciate that perspective. How about this for a trade off?

I know when I would sit on the sidelines and watch my son's team play, the thing that would infuriate me the most was when referees felt like they had to "coach" the game as well. And this is in U14-U18 levels. There is a particular jack-leg in Columbia that feels he has to be the main attraction. Ironically, he headed up SCYSA for a long time. This guy would prance around and "coach" the players while not allowing the real coaches to comment from the sidelines.

Not only a poor administrator, but a terrible ref!

soccerboy,
I think the problem with LE Dudeman is that he has been talking with Shearer too much lately. Or else they both got into a bad batch of brown ale!

Hurst,
Regarding your question about possible handball by a 11-12 yr old girl in a classic or challenge match, it must be called a handball. You have to also consider intent. If it is not called would you think it fair for her to continue to gain an advantage and control of the ball thoughout the match? And, she does have a head and a chest to control the ball with. At that level of play they have got to learn - no hands.

The intent is obvious, she's trying to protect herself. The result is a clear advantage that she wouldn't have had, had she not used her hands.

Ref says "play on".....parents and coaches "scream".

It is not a hand ball offense. This is case in point described in the hand out dated April 27, 2005 that is from Alfred Kleinatis (Manager of Referee Development and Education) This memorandum clearly states:

What characteristics of ball contact are clearly not handling offenses?

-The contact is the result of purely reflexive effort at self protection.

This clearly answers the question. It is not a hand ball.

Cola Fan,
I would agree that that referee was way out of line. We are taught to referee the game so that you are not the center of attention. In fact, if you read the book that is put out by the USSF entitled Guide to Procedures...it states

"It is the job of all member of the referee team to perform their responsibilities as efficiently, effectively and unobtrusively as possible."

"An official's style should not interfere with the flow of the game, result in unclear communication of information to players or fellow officials or cause unde attention to be drawn to the official and away from the game."

By this bullet poin on page 4 of this book, if an assesment was made, this referee should be reprimanded for his actions. I do not like referees that have to be the center of attention, that very much annoys me. I enjoy refereeing games because it is a way for me to stay involved in a sport that I love, and I hopefully can positively contribute to it.

soccerboy,
I do not agree that it is not a hand ball at that level, maybe at rec. level. I agree that it is purely a reflexive action, but they have to be taught the use of chest and head. If the same girl does it 2, 3 times in the game, and nothing is called then she has learned that its ok to continue that same action each time the ball comes. The only instance in which I would not call hand ball is if the ball comes hard at her unexpectantly.

I'm just telling you what the memorandum states for us referees. If we call that while we are being assessed, we will get yelled at and todl that we are wrong. You can tell if it is being done on purpose for the most part. I would not call it a hand ball. I understand what you are saying, but I have to follow the letter of the law. Now if it continues to happen, and the ball mysteriously falls to her feet all the time, obviously I would call it, because she is using it to her advantage. The other consideration is whether she has enough time to get out of the way, or if she is opting to use her hands rather than move. If she is just standing there and not moving and putting her hands up...then it is a hand ball. There is a lot to have to judge.....but I do understand where you are coming from!

Don't you just hate it when old people patronize you!? Oh well, maybe I will find a topic that will interest you soon enough. Maybe we should talk about the goal/non-goal again that happened in the state championship match....Irmo got so screwed.... (OK for those of you that don't get it...that was sarcasm)

..sorry for killing your thread. All apologies.

Good job LE dudeman! You and Shearer have an exceptionally irrational propensity to see who can have the most adverse impact on rational threads. Opps, didn't mean to patronize you again.......

I can only hope I am as highly evolved as you ..when I'm in my sixties..

Yes, and thank you for the compliment.