SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP H.S. vs Club

What would the outcome be if a 4-A State Champ played a U-17 State Champ? Also what would happen if the same U-17 State Champ played a 1-A State Champ? All teams being boy's.

U17 beats 4A in a well fought match but control most of the game.

U17 beats 1A relatively easily, even a 1A powerhouse like Christ Church.

PLC All-stars would thoroughly whoop U-17, 4A, & 1A champs..


..even if all three took the field at once.

Please...
There is no argument here. Any top level club team can easily handle any high school team. I have had a couple of college coaches tell me that a top level U16 girls team can hang with most college teams, beating some (with the exception of the big dogs, of course). For example, you might remember that CGSA Fusion beat the tar out of The Citadel and Coastal Carolina as U16s in scrimmages.

Need Chico to do a demographic/population analysis. Of course any premier state champion U-17 club team should easily be able to beat any high school team, given that the high school team is restricted by boundaries from where they can draw their kids. Given that the club team can attract kids state-wide (and there are kids in the Charleston area who play club ball in the Greenville area) gives them an obvious, insurmountable advantage.

Only exception would be if Columbia or Greenville had a 4A-sized Catholic school that had a great coach that everybody wanted to play for (this scenario could exist up north).

Tough analysis to do: the best club teams tend to have much wider geographic distribution but the best HS teams have a much wider age-based distribution [i.e., freshmen to seniors]. Given maturation averages, the latter is probably typically more a factor for girls than boys.

Anecdotally, it's hard to disagree with Soccerdog6 and Hurst66 on this one. Taking the CSC's U17G team which is currently leading the U17G challenge league, you have players from high schools in Chapin, Dutch Fork, Irmo, Lexington, and probably elsewhere.

If what you guys are saying is true, why is there so much talk about HS soccer in the mid state and lower state and very little talk in the upper state about HS soccer, just club ball. Seems like people talk up HS soccer but from the posts, HS soccer at the highest level can't stay on the field with a top flight club. Am I correct with this train of thought ?

Club soccer does not get in the newspaper or on the 11PM newscast. This is looked as something that goes on behind behind the scenes and goes without publicity. High school is, well, high school. This is something whole communities get behind. Club ball does not get the recognition that it deserves. If not for club ball, providing at least a couple of players for any particular high school, the high school programs would be even more pitiful than they are now, with a few notable exceptions.
Just my opinion, but I think is the correct one.

Age is key.... A top flight U17B team should win the majority of the games against 4A schools, except for the few who are strong enough (I can only think of a handful). 3A and below, no contest.

Girls, ditto except maybe a couple of HS

The key is age make-up of the team.

a top flight U17B team? i am assuming you mean challange correct?

Do highly skilled club players look down upon their less skilled HS teammates, or do HS players have trouble accepting their club teammates?

Also, can anyone think of a star HS player who dosn't play on a club team.

Top end challenge ...yes. Could be be #3 or 4 in state. Although in hindsight I would have to add "depending" on the field they play in.

If they play on normal HS fields it will be tighter, if they play on 120X70 ...no contest.

the other question... I know of some players one would wonder why they are not playing club. But in all the cases there were deficiencies for which pure athleticism cannot make-up for. If you cannot pass a ball accurately 10 yds or dribble under control, then no amount of speed can compensate. Sometimes people confuse speed with skill. Give me a thinking, skilled, quick player over raw speed anyday.

In many of the HS games I have seen, it would appear that speed is the main factor.

HIgh school fields tend to be more narrow due to the fact that they are mostly played on the football field or inside the track. Add to this that you usually have less skilled players playing, and what you geet is a game that relies less on skill, and more on speed. Overall it's a much more vertically played game.

LE: whats PLC all-stars ? premier league players??

As you can tell, I'm new to the SC soccer forum and new to the area. Having gone back and read previous posts, I was curious about all the HS smack talking and the lack of club players bashing one another. Why all the mean spirited talk between HS players, when the previous post's have stated that club ball is played at a much higher level, and the club players talk little if any smack.

I have to add my opinion to this topic......

First, a top level club team from South Carolina and a top level 4A or 3A high school team would probably have a pretty high level, good match. In a series of 5 games, i would say the club team probably wins 3 with at least one going to penalties. However, there are some high schools from out of state who would do the same thing to the club team.

Second, I cannot fathom a scenario where a "B" team would defeat a top level h.s. team. I would take the h.s. team over the "B" team 4 games to 1 with one game going to penalties.

Here is another prong to this discussion-- since club soccer has not always been at the level it is currently at here in S.C., let's take the following hypothetical match-up...

one of the best high school teams of all time versus one of the best club teams of all time.....

girls: Riverside 1993 versus Mt. Pleasant Ice 2000 (or their best state championship team)

boys: Riverside 1993 versus DSA's Regional Finalist team (to this date, S.C. most successful club team)

girls #2: Mauldin versus one of GFC's State Champions

boys #2: Irmo 1989 versus Bridge FA's US Club Soccer National Champion

For the record... U17B means U17 Boys... not B team. Although there may be some B teams from clubs that end up in the 3 or 4 spot in challenge

If you watch club and HS soccer then it is easy to see why the club teams would beat most HS teams. There are always exceptions to the rule. Bishop England two years ago was as good as any club team. The only problem with your question is that the best HS teams contain the players from the best club teams.

Smack talk. Smack talk amount the HS teams is fun and for the most part no takes it personal. The Clubs tend to be a lot more sensitive to the smack talk so everyone just avoids it. But smack talk among the HS teams is also becoming hard to find because of the sensitivity.

One of the best teams in SC ever and you name a team that won a US Club Soccer National Championship. Come on, dont fool anyone. US Club is still in its infancy with alot of major clubs not on board and not looking to get on board at any time soon.

How about some of the best club teams, ie. GFC Black ( i believe 86, RCates will be able to give the date) that won every state championship. Or how about the NECSA Galaxy who did the same. Or maybe the Aiken Fire team? National runner up. They are the most successful club team ever from SC if basing your reasoning on how far a team advances in regionals/nationals.

I gotta go with my dog lower on this one.Not only was it US Club but the Bridge team is under 15, 14 at the time they won Nationals. Were you talking about them and Irmo's JV team?

Ahhhhhhhhhh, nothing more relaxing than sitting out on a poor field in lawn chairs watching uninspired club soccer.

how could you say that south aiken or eastside last year was worse than any club team?

The original post said nothing about ANY club team. It was about a U17 State Champion Club team. As another poster said, there would be some close games but the club team is going to win the majority of the time. I like high school games. My child likes playing on a high school team but the there is going to be more depth and skill on a good club team than on a high school team.

ahh, ok so now you guys want to bring age into the equation, huh???

ok, then you cannot ever compare club and high school with regards to who would win more b/c of course a top level U-18 club team would beat a top level high school team b/c the high school team probably starts 2-3 sophs who are 3 years younger than every player on the club team. Likewise, a top level U15 club team would have no chance playing a top level high school team b/c the high school team would have numerous quality 18-year olds on the team. Remember, I am not talking about the donkey high school programs versus GFC. I am talking about the Irmos, Wandos and Riversides of the world versus GFC, Aiken Fire or the Bridge.

So comparison is virtually impossible expect for people who just really hate one or the other.

In my hypothetical situations, which no one offered predications on, there is no chance that players would overlap.

Lowerstate--
You bring up some better teams (thanks b/c i could not think of them) but my point was made by Nino.....

you cannot compare high school and club teams b/c club teams are usually single ages (with maybe one or two players playing up one age group) while high schools are a 4-5 year difference. This creates unfair match-ups on the field.

Therefore, those of you who want to bash high school soccer and say how bad even the best teams are, ask yourself how a U-15 club team would do against the Irmo varsity team. I would hope that most people who know soccer would realize that in this situation, the club team would not succeed. On the other hand, Irmo may have a hard time handling one of the teams Lowerstate mentioned.

For a hypothetical instance, what if the #1 U-18 player who plays for Irmo is marking the #1 U-15 player who plays for GFC. Now lets say that since Irmo is a great high school program, that same team also has the #2-#5 U-18 players and the #1-#4 U-17 players.... even if the club team has the #1-#8 U-15 players, they will be marked by better, older and more experienced players. This puts the club team at a disadvantage versus a top level high school team!!!

Most of you who constantly bash high school soccer imagine the perfect situation where a GFC team or that one Aiken Fire team is playing a donkey high school team and then you base your entire argument on that one situation.

The high school versus club argument cannot be solved in absolutes b/c there are plenty of instances where top level club teams would be at a significant disadvantage versus a high school team and vice versa.

Voice, I think you need to go back and look at the original question. Age was identified from the start. It is also my understanding that a U17 team (High school Juniors for the most part) was used because it is approximately the average age of a high school team.

Actually, in this case, it is very easy to compare the two. Last years state champions for club were CESA U17 and the high school 4A champs were South Aiken. I don't believe there is much (or any) overlap of players on both teams. Therefore you can get into argument of which team would win if they played one another. Now I don't think the original poster wanted to turn this into an South Aiken vs. CESA discussion, but only to know which type of team would be stronger. Clubs obviously have an advantage in Geography over high school teams but that's not to say a high school can't have a good team.

Some people are also failing to recognize/mention that most of the quality club teams will be better coached whereas the same can't be said for most high school teams.

I think most good high school teams have coaches that also coach club ball. That seems to be the case in cities anyway. Now then, if you're talking about a rural area, I may stand corrected.

Cola Fan, I don't know if I understand your response. Are you saying that just because a hs coach also coaches in a club he is to be considered a quality coach? As a point of clarity, I stated that the majority of the quality clubs would be better coached, with better being the operative word. I didn't say that some hs coaches didn't have a clue.

Voice, it seems that all you want to do is promote the Riverside teams that you played on - or at least were rostered on. Give it a rest. Were they a quality program in the late 80s and into the 90s - yes. But, they could not compare to the top u17/u18 club teams of that era nor of today.

I agree Hammer. The game is much better when you have stands and play on fields that are 100x60.

Nino, who's block is this? Your time has expired playa.

I dont know. I think that the Riverside teams from 90-94 would be very comparable to the top U17/18 club teams because Riverside teams were made up of the most of the players that played on some of the top U16/17/18 club teams back then. Notice I said back then, I think those Riverside teams would have a hard time playing a top U17/18 club teams now for obvious reasons. But I believe that club players make a high school team and it would be hard to compete if you did not have a few club players on your high school team.