SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP Premier league 1st seed and 2 seed decided for state cup

The SCYSA SCSCL website has defined the 1 and 2 from the premier league for the state playoffs

U18 girls - CESA #1
U18 Boys - CESA #1 , Mt Pleasant #2
U17 Grils - CESA #1, Mt Pleasant #2
U17 Boys not decided (identical records and they tied each other, CESA has better Goal Diff than Bridge)
U16 Girls - CESA #1, LCSC #2
U16 Boys - NECSA #1 , CESA #2
U15 Girls CESA #1 , CESA Challenge #2
U15 Boys CESA #1, DSC #2

Bridge gold U15 is in the CESA side of the bracket.... CESA 3 - DSC 2 HMMMMMMM!!!

Just kidding....

I still do not understand how SCYSA can put these up considering CESA and DSC have not finished their games in Premier. I know the Administrative manual says the two premeir shall be placed 1 and 2 based on the standings in the R3PL, but is there any chance this weekends play by DSC would change the seeding. If DSC wins both their games by four goals would that not put them ahead of CSEA?

I think SCYSA should look at the schedule for premeir. They should have notified R3P league to schedule all of SC teams games prior to the November 12 first round of state play.

Soccersmylife...I hear you and I don't know the specifics for the U15's but the storms this fall have forced the cancellation/rescheduling of many of the final premier league games. The U16's will have premier league games "after" the first round of state cup...good luck at States.

Just wondering if it is because CESA beat DSC in R3P.
As of now Sunday evening - DSC is ahead of CESA.

How can CESA get #1 seeding in U15 Boys??? DSC had better winning % as rules state. You can't consider head-to-head.
http://www.hotstat.com/standings.cfm?DID=2729

Looks like there was some heavy backpedaling. The challenege standings no longer has DSC and CESA as 1 and 2. As of matter of fact they are no longer listed... However if you go to the CSC boys section they are shown as playing DSC in Lexington at 11 on Saturday U15 boys challenge Hotstat standings

They need to keep peddling back further.
The 1st Round schedule still shows CESA premier with a 1st rd. bye.
http://www.hotstat.com/standings.cfm?DID=2996
Under SCYSA rules as stated :'The team with the highest points percentage from the Region III PremierLeague will be seeded number 1 and the second highest points percentage from the Region III Premier League will be seeded number 2.'
looks like DSC 70.4 % v. CESA 61.9%. This is a no-brainer for DSC to have 1st rd. bye.
CESA must have worked some deal since they were already accepted at Raleigh. However, by playing much higher level competition at Raleigh, in comparison to DSC playing a very weak 1st rd. opponent, CESA has the greater advantage in preparation for state finals Dec. 3.
All the way DSC!! Take it all from the evil red machine!

Looks like we may be catching them in the changing process (whatever that will be) as when I went in this AM neither team was listed and now they are back as they were last friday.

I agree with you.... way premature on SCYSA's part. DSC should have first round bye.

I have to chime in here. I cannot say for sure but the SCYSA rules that you are citing are most likely based upon each team playing the same opponents with the same number of games. My guess is that the games against the Florida teams were taken out of the equation since CESA was not able to play them and that CESA won out on the head to head tie breaker. They probably need to put more description in the rule. I also always thought that in the Premier league one state would play another on a given weekend, and you would not get a situation where one SC team would play against another state while another one didn't. That's what seems to have happened here.

CF...go to this link, you need Adobe reader.

State cup rules

Scroll to item 13, point 2, second to last sentence.

2004,
You need to check your facts before you pop off at the mouth accusing CESA and SCYSA of working in collusion. CESA is not, I repeat, not going to Raleigh. Your little conspiracy theories are played out.

As I said earlier in the week, the only viable solution is to level the playing field by using like opponents. Both you and futbol can get on here and list the rules and say see this and see that, but nowhere in the rules does it say anything about the situation where one team has played more games than the other. Is it fair to CESA that they were unable to complete their games and thus be penalized for the weather.

If DSC is able to win the state, great for them, but it will not be because anything was cooked up.That is a load of crap and is a disservice to all parties attached, regardless of what you think about SCYSA or CESA.

Nino Brown - the most ruthless gangsta in da hood!

CESA Challenge is listed in the CASL Shootout U15 Men Elite Group C schedule (6th flight). CESA Premier is not listed in any of the flights.

CESA Challenge also has a 1st round State Cup game vs Bridge Red. What's up with that?

I think SCYSA followed their rule book, but cut off the Premier schedule at the end of October, leaving DSC and CESA with the same records, CESA getting the bye due to head-to-head.

I have to agree with Nino here. I know what the rules say but I think there is an assumption that both teams have the same number of games with the same opponents. In this case you do not have that. I realize that it is very easy to hate CESA but I don't see foul play here. I wouldn't be surprised to see the rules rewriten to be more clear on this topic.

I got El Nino really blowing now! CESA Premier U15 was on acceptance list. Must have dropped out after all this, huh? Did I use the words conspriracy or collusion? Rules are rules....but whatever SCYSA decides must be. GO DSC!!!

I neither hate nor favor either team... I am just showing the rules as written, and they clearly say the "winning percentage" is the requirement for seeding. If SCYSA cut it at the end of October, then why would the season for challenge go on through Nov 5/6? And even if they did, it is not written anywhere. Personally I think that DSC has a viable complaint and they should be given the bye. Rules are rules and it is very likely that noone predicted this situation, however to come at the last minute and "change" the rule or make an assumption is incorrect. Someone in an earlier post (I believe was another thread) stated that it is unfair to only use % as the determining factor as a team with only 1 game and 1 win has a 100% winning factor over someone who played more and thus has more chances to fail/succeed. I agree with this statement, but this is not how the rules are written. SCYSA should clearly identify that the premier seeding is for this , that and the other. They did not.

And by the way this isn't the only group that has the problem. For example in the U16 group the premier teams will be playing games the weekend of the 19/20, you can argue that seed 1 could fall to seed 2 after these games.

Futbol,
In that case you're talking about CESA is penalized but decisions have to be made.

2004,Who's doing the backpedaling now. Amazing that just about everything out of your mout is wrong.Did what's his name get at ya the other day?

Please answer 2004 PLEASE answer

.....whats her name??

you know the guy???

...the guy???

dude from CESA??

Turder dude?

And decisions have been made.... our problem is that noone here knows who, why and how. So speculationt is rampant.

Maybe someone from one of the affected teams can provides us with better insight.

I would suppose the U17 boys was goal differential CESA -9 vs Bridge -12 as the tie breaker

Yeah, please provides us with some mo insights......

yes CESA U-17 Premier takes the first place seed in the playoffs due to goal differential

Does anyone know why the game between CSC Blue U-15 and DSC U15 boys was postponed for their first round of state playoffs?

100% guess in my part....

DSC is probably contesting the CESA bye as they have the higher number of points at this time.

Futbol,
I can't see any other reason either. This is a shame. Now not only is CESA, DSC, and Bridge involved but so is CSC.

Someone has to know what is going on. Obviously the parties of CSC and DCS know or is this off limits to.

Word on the street is that DSC threatened legal action against SCYSA. Did CESA not beat DSC? SCYSA made a decision that was fair. Now a CSC team has to wait until late november to play what is probably their last game. Why string that team out?

All the u16 boys games have not been finished. CESA is only 2 points below NECSA with Two games to play. However, they are both playing first round games this weekend. So SCYSA decided to give NECSA the number one seed through common opponents. Much like the way the 15s were decided. What about the 18s where MPSC has only played 4 games? I agree that SCYSA needs to decide how to handle these situations better, but they made a decision and that decision should be followed. Shame on Discoveries for stretching this out further than it should be.

Seems to me like DSC is afraid to play Bridge's top team!

So if my son does not make ODP will I be able to threaten legal action and get tryouts pushed further back?

Loc,

I really hope that the legal action you are talking about is just a rumor and not true.

I would imagine that in this case if DSC (or anyone) has an issue with the seeding then they would appeal to SCYSA and eventually to USYSA. Ultimately I believe that USYSA would have any final decision in this matter if it was pushed that far.

In looking at the U15, 16 and 18's, the siutations are different. In the case of the U15 and U18 teams, the situation is similar where each team has played a different amount of games. In the U18 case, CESA has played the most games and has more points against the common opponents. In the U15 case, DSC has more games but when you take the common opponents into account (including head to head) CESA wins out. In the U16 case, both teams have played the same number of games but NECSA has more points. Given that both teams are close in record and points it is very conceivable that CESA could overtake NECSA when the last two games are played but when you go on what has happened so far it NECSA wins out.

For one, I think that it is a no-brainer that SCYSA needs to re-write their rules to include these situations. I realize that you cannot possibly predict every situation but given that we have had this strange type of situation occur, it needs to be documented on how it will be handled during seeding.

Well if we are looking at future predictions, CESA plays both of the FL teams who lost to DSC. So by your logic, one would expect CESA to win both games which would have everything tied up again and CESA would be #1.

However, SCYSA made a decision and this decision was made in all age groups that were affected by weather and circumstances out of their control. How come CESA and MPSC not questioned the decisions?

I'm not sure where my logic gets applied to future games. Every game in the Premier league is tough and all it would take is for CESA to tie or lose to one Florida team and then DSC would have the better record in the end, but none of that matters. What matters is what has happened to this point with the common opponents.

You may believe al these are valid points...but none of us know how the decision was made in the first place.... At least I have not read the rationale.

If my calculations are right, DSC is actually arguing "for the right" to play Bridge in the semis. The brackets are 1,8,3,6 vs 2,7,4,5.

Thus DSC if #1 would be with Bridge #3

And then there is the problematic written rules, there is nothing said outside of higher point total. As of 11/6 (the technical last day of the season)DSC was #1.... All other views valid or not cannot loose sight of the current rule.

The mess was created by SCYSA by calling seeds earlier in the premier league than the challenge league last day. Why? we do not know...however it does create a problem for teams that have done everything to get there and now have to wait and see... I feel for those teams, good luck CSC and prepare against all foes.

Because you said that, when you go on what has happened so far NECSA wins out. I think we are on the same page, just not saying it the same way. No other club has argued against the rulings of SCYSA and had games postponed is my problem. CESA's 16s and MPSC 18s have much of a right to raise issues as DSC. However, even if they do not agree with the rulings, they have accepted SCYSA's rulings.

Actually football, the seedings do not work that way.
1 v 8, 2 v 7, 3v 6, 4 v 5

Semis

1v 4, 2 v 3.

So DSC would be playing Bridge in the semis right now. Everyone knows that this is for the most part a 3 team race. The 4th team in the semis will either be a B team from CESA or Bridge, which you would consider weaker than the other three.

LOCDOG....you are correct...that should teach me for relying on memory.... Then I retract what I said and the fight is NOT to play BRIDGE in the semis.... I would love to be a fly in on of those meeting rooms

for clarification to my comment and LOCDOG's seeding

Group A - is made up of 1,8,4,5
Group B - is made up of 2,7,3,6

In this age group 3 = Bridge....

DSC deserves the bye this year.
GO DSC !! Take it ALL!!

2004,

did you and shearer have a few before you posted. The reason that CESA and the FL teams did not play was not because they "had no games schedule". They were scheduled to play the weekend of hurricane wilma that moved through FL. So is it a schedule screw up? I think not. So why punish CESA, who beat DSC, because of mother nature?

2004,
Yo. Did what's his name get after ya da other day.

Put away your "I hate CESA" shirt 2004. Some day you too will succumb to the dark side.


Fulfill your destiny....

Seems like that is the best seller though Flag.

2004

Why did you change your post? Cant handle the truth?

What is the latest on the U15 seeding?

In the R3PL, CESA cannot move into 2nd place, above DSC or CASL, even if they win both games. Since there would be a 3 way points tie, head to head is thrown out. Goal differential would be the next tie breaker and CESA would only have a GD of 13 if they received the max allowed of 3 for each game. DSC and CASL both have a GD of 17. No matter what happens with CESA, DSC will be 2nd and CASL 3rd in the R3PL league. That should make DSC the number 1 seed.

What does CASL have to do with any of this? We are talking about seeding for South Carolina's state cup. Seeding is determined for South Carolina teams only. DSC's record versus CESA's record.

If they are looking at the R3PL league standings, then DSC will be ranked higher than CESA no matter what happens this weekend.

No AC. CESA will have the same percentage points as DSC if they win both games. At that point it will go head to head, before goal differetial. This is elementary my man.

Why do you think that this appeal process is even going on if what you are saying is true.

"The teams (two maximum) playing in the Region III Premier League will be seeded one (1) or two (2) based on their standing in the Region III Premier League".

If CESA wins both games, there will be a 3-way tie in Premier at pct = 70.4; DSC and CESA, and also CASL.

"If two or more teams are tied on percentages at the end of the season, the following tie breaking
procedures will be used:
a. Head to head competition (if three teams are tied go direct to b.)
b. Goal differential with a maximum differential of three (3) goals per game
c. Total goals scored
d. Fewest total goals allowed in all games
e. Fewest red cards
f. Coin toss

To me it is clear that AC is correct. Head to head is not used in a 3-way tie. The seedings are based on standings in R3PL. CESA cannot overcome DSC's goal differntial advantage.

-Nino Brown-
What process are you talking about?
CESA plays this weekend to determine things.

Last year there was another scheduling boo-boo, again involving CESA. In U13 Boys, #1 CESA Premier and #2 CSC Navy had byes. 1st round, #6(Northside) beat #3 (MPSC) and #4 (CESA Challenge) beat #5 (SSC).

Semis were scheduled #1 vs #6, #2 vs #5. Anyone who could read a brackets could tell that was wrong, that #1 should play winner of #4 vs #5. Ended up #4 (CESA Challenge) beat CESA Premier.

Another example of the evil empire at work in the scheduling office?

There should not be a "process going on". If SC had read the R3PL rules, they would have known that DSC would be the #1 seed.

Irmo. I'm having a hard time understanding you. In the 13's last year, CESA Premier did play CESA Challenge just like they were supposed to. The No. 1 seed plays the winner of 4/5, which they did. If there was a conspiracy it seems to me that CESA would have wanted their two teams to play in the final, not the semis.

Also, here is a geography lesson for you. CASL is located in Raleigh, which the last time I checked is located outside of the lines of South Carolina which would disqualify them for a state championship in South Carolina. Let me make it even more simple. CASL has nothing to do with this. It is between DSC and CESA, so there is no three way tie here. We are not talking about R3PL, we are talking about seeding for state cup.

Since DSC and CESA only play in the R3PL, it is my understanding that the team from SC that is ranked the highest in the R3PL would be the #1 seed in State Cup. DSC is #2 and CESA will be #4 in the R3PL even if CESA wins both games this weekend and receive maximum points.

AC

Please explain to me how they would be #4. If CESA wins both games, they would be tied with DSC and CASL for points with 19. So they would be tied for second. Is it that hard to understand? I am awaiting this quality explanation.

AC

I see the error in your logic. First of all, look at Nino's post about geography. that was an elementary class. Secondly, even if you still argue for the 3 way tie. GD is not limited to three goals. Go look at DSC's GD. its has not been limited to three goals. It is TOTAL GOALS SCORED - TOTAL GOALS AGAINST. Understand yet? well if not, I can teach you a some simple math too!

In R3PL, the first tie breaker is head to head unless there is more than a two way tie. In this case, if CESA wins both their games, then there would be 3 teams with 19 pts. The second tie break is goal differential with a maximum gd of 3. That is how DSC is above CASL. DSC's actual gd is 11 and CASL's is 10. CESA's gd is 5. If they get the max gd of 6 then they would be tied with DSC and the next tie breaker is goals for. DSC has 30 gf, CESA has 20. CESA would have to score 10 goals to tie DSC or 11 goals to move ahead of DSC in the R3PL. It would be hard but I guess they could do it.

I know it gets complicated. The region 3 web site has the goal differential posted that is based on total goals scored less total goals against, but when they figure the tie breakers they only allow 3 maximum goal differential per game. Also, it doesn't matter which state you are in. They don't group the states together. They only look at each teams statistics.

AC

actually GD is used to either push someone ahead of the other two or elimenate someone. that means that if CESA wins and gets the +6 then they would tie DSC and CASL would be gone. Then it would go back to head to head. CESA would take it. Thats talking R3PL. We are discussing SCYSA and the tiebreaker there is head to head. so CESA gets the first seed if they win both games.

NO, it does not go back to head to head. It then goes to total goals scored, then fewest goals allowed, fewest red cards and then a coin toss. It never goes back to head to head. Look back at page 4 of this thread and see Irmo4now's comments on the R3PL rules.

Nino....last year after the 1st round, the U13B games were posted as:
CESA Premier vs Northside
CSC Navy vs CESA Challenge

CSC had to notify SCYSA to get this changed. How did that happen?

Go to www.scysa.org, click on "state cups menu" on left side bottom of screen, click on "state cup rules - challenge cup" on botton. Scroll down to #13 - "scysa challenge cup teams - seedings" and read. No mention of "SC teams only".

Since more than two team from SC cannot be considered for seeding in the SCYSA Challenge Cup from Premier League standing, I feel sure that any team tied in the R3PL standings is involved in the tie-breaking process, even non-SC teams.

Dog - good point about GD - that is true - if CESA gets +6 from the two matches vs Fla teams, they get the bye. I was using GD from hotstat, but for tie-breaker DSC is actually +11 and CESA +5.

AC:

As much as I agree with you on the Head to Head rule, I believe that USYSA will go back to the Head to Head tie breaker once a team has been eliminated and only two teams are left. I'm not saying that this is the correct thing to do, but there has been cases of this happening before. I have always believed that you move down through the tiebreakers and never go back up.

AC,
One last time. If what you are saying is true and there is no way that CESA can be the number 1 seed, why has the decision not been made.

There appears to be a lot of uncertainty in Rock Hill. The club web page said DSC gets number two seed; you are confident that DSC is one, and someone from the Mutiny team appealed to SCYSA beacuse DSC is not number one. Before you reply back on this board again why don't you contact the coach of the Mutiny and perhaps he can educate you on this matter.

You are confusing R3pl with SCYSA seeding. There will be no three way tie. If CESA wins both games they will be number one. If CESA loses or draws DSC will be number one.

THis thread is like reading a Beckett novel. Irmo, why would the SCYSA website have to say anyhting about SC teams. Isn't it obvious that since you are on a SC website that it applies to SC teams and not teams from Arizona, New Mexico, or Arkansas.

Beckett novel...great analogy.

Thanks Chico. I was hoping someone would get it.

I agree, this is a novel. All I am saying is that when they say "standings in R3PL", I feel they mean standings amongst all teams in the R3PL. My opinion has no weight at SCYSA.

I see where the First Coast Soccer team for the U-15 boys forfieted their games this weekend on Jeykell. So CEASA gets 3 points for this, which gives them 19, same as DSC. If CESA wins their second game on Sunday, does this put them ahead of DSC in the R3PL?

I would imagine that since SCYSA has put everything on hold until these games are played then yes, if CESA wins they would get first seed. If CESA couldn't get #1 seed then the games would have been played last week.

That forfeit gives CESA 16 points. They still need a win vs Player Club (Fla) on Sunday to get to 19 and a tie with DSC. Then it would depend on how SCYSA breaks the tie.

Just recieved a report: CESA 4 - Players Club 1

DSC must have another appeal ready now

No-brainer now-
Tiebreaker goes to CESA - Head to Head

Well......I guess DSC gets to play Bridge FA Gold. Good luck to both teams.

When will that game happen?

Check the SCYSA web site for the schedules.

Congratulations to CESA U15B Premier team -- who have won the #1 seed at least twice. It's hard not to have admiration for these kids and coach Nick Finotti who have finished #2 in RIIIPL and who when it counted showed why they're the defending state champions. This team is a credit to South Carolina youth soccer. Great job!

I concur Chico. I know that CESA is easy to take a shot at on this board but tghere has to be some vindication here. As you said they have won the #1 seed twice. They were not the ones that went to the SCYSA board with lawyers and appeals to try and get what they did not get on the field. These lawyers that you spoke about tried to manipulate the system every way they could but in the end the right thing happened. CESA beat DSC on the field and in the courtroom.

Lost in all of this is the CSC team that has been through all of this because of some parents who could not accept a decision. I heard from a reliable source over the weekend that they will be without a few of their players for the match against DSC this week. How unfair is that. They might have been able to field a full team if the game would have been played when it was originally scheduled.

U-15 boys state cup cesa challenge 3 bridge red 2
next: cesa challenge vs. cesa premier.
DSC discoveries vs. bridge gold

what do you think the outcome will be?

CESA premier beats challenge.
DSC wins in a tight game against Bridge, Bridge wins if the game becomes high scoring.
CESA premier is on a roll, will be a huge hurdle for any team to overcome. Without a doubt the best group play this wekend will be boys U-15.

sweetfeet - Why do you say Bridge wins if it becomes a high scoring game against DSC.

I agree...the best to watch will be the U-15 Boys

OK.... Final predictions only.... (and If I was any good I would win the lottery as well)

U15B CESA P Vs Bridge
U15G CESA vs CSC
U16B CESA C vs Bridge (yes CESA C not CESA P)
U16G CESA P vs LCSC
U17B CSC vs CESA P
U17G CESA P vs CSC
U18B NECSA vs CUSC
U18G CESA vs Coastal

soccermylife-

My reason is simple: DSC relies on a single player to make things happen, although a team sport, one person can have a huge influence on his or her team. If said player is on his game DSC finds a way to win due to their experience. If things don't go well early for DSC a well disciplined Bridge team will take advantage and secure an easy victory. In my humble opinion, Bridge is playing to validate the first year of their merger. If CESA wins this year it reaffirms their total club dominance in SC youth soccer for years to come.

Futbol(soccer)-

Sorry, U-16B Premier wins, not C yes Challenge.
last year yes, maybe, this year new center-mid from last years older boys Premier team. Coach has made adjustments Premier playing consistant soccer for the first time this season.

by far Enzo Martinez. with out him i dont think DSC could score! yes they have many other solid players but all the production comes from him.