SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP Cesa establishes in columbia.

give me your insight on the deal with Cesa establishing something in columbia.

What has happened to CESA Columbia? I thought they were going to field teams for the spring. Was CESA sanctioned for the problem with CSC's DOC not abiding by his contract with CSC?

Shhhhh... rumor is all around, but there has not been an apology or official word on the sanctions. Therefore, what was wrong is not, because it is now not to be discussed.

We teach our children to accept responsibility and ask forgiveness when they do wrong. Why don't we expect that from adults?

Did CSC's DOC even have an employment contract? I heard "no", but I didn't hear it first hand, so I don't know.

Shrink Rap: You might want to consider teaching children not to gossip.

Hey Chico, since you must know then what's the offical word? And why does CESA not want to apologize to those hurt by the incident?... and allow those within their club to know the details? Lots of questions for CESA still abound, but gossip is all that is out... why is that?

Did you just gossip when you said, "I heard "no", but I didn't hear it first hand??? If you don't know... then it's gossip!

If gossip is the truth... is it gossip?

If someone did wrong, should they accept responsibility and apologize?

Looking forward to your post and others with knowledge on this topic.

Hey Chico, since you must know then what's the offical word? And why does CESA not want to apologize to those hurt by the incident?... and allow those within their club to know the details? Lots of questions for CESA still abound, but gossip is all that is out... why is that?

Huh? How could anyone be hurt by an act of a soccer club? Who knows what within the club? Lots of questions for what you represent in my opinion. You are spreading the gossip!

Did you just gossip when you said, "I heard "no", but I didn't hear it first hand??? If you don't know... then it's gossip! If gossip is the truth... is it gossip?

Same as you are stating it appears.

If someone did wrong, should they accept responsibility and apologize?

Who did wrong? What are your priorities? Do you care about soccer players development?

Looking forward to your post and others with knowledge on this topic.

I admit that I don't have much knowledge on this subject, but I went through this ordeal 10 or so years ago and can't believe some of these questions!

Cola Fan, thanks for your questions. Many people at CSC were hurt by the announcement that came out during the week of the fall State Cup. The DOC and another coach left, only to have the coach return.. the focus that was suppose to go to the Cup was taken away and feelings were greatly hurt. No gossip here, only facts.

I'm not here to rehash what happened, I'm posting to ask if there was wrong committed, then why not put in on the table and move forward.

If no wrong was done, then someone official settle the issue. We can always ask SCYSA for any help they can offer.

I appreciate your input and I too care about soccer players development... done the ethical way!

are some of the csc people fishing for something? Eddie decided to resign and join another club, wheres the foul?

No fishing at CSC. Eddie is a neighbor and great guy. CESA is an outstanding club with a great reputation. The original post asked, "was CESA sanctioned?" Is there a "Yes" they were, or "No" they were not?

IF there was a sanction, then an apology is appropriate. If there was not, then someone should be able to easily answer that question.

My apology... The original post by greenacres read, "Was CESA sanctioned for the problem with CSC's DOC not abiding by his contract with CSC?

Chico did attempt to answer this question. However, I believe greenacres meant to ask, "Was CESA sanctioned ... in regards to this event?

And this answer is?

>> [Shrink Rap] Many people at CSC were hurt by the announcement that came out during the week of the fall State Cup. The DOC and another coach left, only to have the coach return.. the focus that was suppose to go to the Cup was taken away and feelings were greatly hurt.<<

You're kidding, right?

CSC and NECSA made an announcement that they were merging the same week that the CESA announcement was made. If there was a sincere belief by any of the clubs that club announcements constituted some sort of "theft of focus" and "feeling injury", then none of the clubs would have announced during that week.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at this. The increasing tendency toward a culture of victimization (i.e., the Oprah-ization of America) was bound to manifest itself in South Carolina youth soccer sooner or later.

Shrink Rap: Apology not needed; no harm, no foul. I'm glad you read the first post more carefully and understood I responded directly to the question being asked.

Now to respond to your question. I do not have public information of anyone being penalized (this is how I interpet the term "sanction"; I'm working hard to be straightforward here) and I have not received any announcements from anyone or any club regarding being penalized. However, this does not mean that it has or has not occurred; what it means is that either the clubs have not gone public with this information and/or I am not "in the loop" and are aware of this public information.

I have heard a lot of rumors about CSC, NECSA, and CESA; however, I have found no one that will confirm anything publicly. This isn't exactly uncommon; yesterday for example I got a message stating details of the CSC/NECSA merger including team integration strategy. Just as I'm not going to post those details without someone official in the clubs publicly confirming them, I'm not going to post details of other rumors.

Why do I try not to post rumors? One reason is that it's difficult to tell what the intent is of the person telling you the rumor. For example, was the intent of the person sending me the message yesterday to try to hurt the CSC/NECSA merger, help it, or recruit my kid? I don't know. But I am aware that the intent deeply biases the rumors passed on [or not passed on, for that matter].

Any other questions?

Yes, do you have any SCYSA discipline board's names, phone numbers, or email addresses that would verify if this has or has not occurred?

Note; I have not posted any rumor on this topic that I have heard. I am only trying to understand if anybody on this site knows if anything has come out of this issue. I have stated that IF a sanction were given, THEN I believe the appropriate action would be to apologize and accept responsiblity.

Why would I kid about feelings being hurt at CSC? This is not victimization and let's have a pity part (I'm a licensed professional counselor and I've seen that much too often), but it is the fact of the incident. If you recall, CESA came out first with their statement and within a week CSC/NECSA later came out with their statement. Question, not rumor, could it have been that one led to the other? I believe some would like to discount what happened and say that Oprah-zation is now in youth soccer. But if it did happen and people were hurt, then what is the term we are to use? I call it "survivor", not victim.

Side note:
Victimization: If a family member gets abused (physical/emotional) is it termed A)being a victim B)Oprah-ization or C)being a survivor (assuming they live) ? I believe that a person who was hurt does not want to be known as a victim for the rest of their life, but they want to come out of an incident known as a survivor. When something truly happens why do some of us want to whitewash the whole discussion as if it never happened by throwing out the pity party card? If something happened call it for what it is. However, I am well aware that America has become the "blame it on someone else" society in order to not accept responsibility and this does cloud many positions.

Accepting Responsibility:
We often jump to one side of an issue because we want to believe the person and we might think that they have the best interest of us in their minds. However, as we have learned from history, until we learn the facts it is wise to form ones opinion and wait until the facts come out to express his/her opinion. Remember Bill Clinton and, "I never had sex" or George Bush talking about weapons of mass distruction? How about Susan Smith and her aledged reports. We are often a passionate society and like to express our opinions. However, when we or leaders are wrong with our expressions, or lack thereof, we need to accept responsibility, receive consequences if necessary, and move forward.
I believe this is a great website for expressing opinions but we must understand that these are mostly opinions and not always facts. I wanted to believe Bush, Clinton, and Smith and expressed my opinion before knowing the facts. I've learned and I hope others learn that we are often deceived by what we hear or see. What counts is how we handle when we're wrong.

[Preface: I think that these passages get at the heart of our discussion; thus I pulled these passages out of the longer post that follows.]

>>[Shrink Rap] Why would I kid about feelings being hurt at CSC?<<

I have no clue. It's just difficult to take someone seriously who is claiming that one announcement hurt a club when that same club made an announcement concerning a merger two days later. If CSC felt a real wrong had been committed, it would have not only not announced its merger days before the state challenge cup but it would have fired the coach who announced he was going to CESA and gave his permission for his name to be in the announcement; instead, CSC welcomed him back (which in my opinion, was the right move for CSC.)

>>[Shrink Rap] If you recall, CESA came out first with their statement and within a week CSC/NECSA later came out with their statement. Question, not rumor, could it have been that one led to the other?<<

Only if the leaders of CSC and NECSA weren't telling the truth when they talked to "The State" and said that CESA had nothing to do with their decision to pursue a merger.

By the way, even if they weren't telling the truth -- I don't believe that in two days CSC and NECSA got together, decided to do merger, and made the announcement. I've not seen that type of efficiency from boards of any corporate entity before.

But if I'm wrong, and the CESA announcement is what caused CSC and NECSA to merge, I would think a "thank you" is in order to CESA -- because Columbia-area soccer needed to change. But again, I don't believe a "thank you" is in order, because I believe what the leaders of CSC and NECSA said.

>>[Shrink Rap] Yes, do you have any SCYSA discipline board's names, phone numbers, or email addresses that would verify if this has or has not occurred?<<

No; however, I believe you can find contact information at http://www.scysa.org. A bit closer to home, I believe you can find contact information for CSC at http://www.columbiasoccerclub.org -- since someone had to claim being a victim if such a claim was made, it would probably be CSC, right? So you can check with your club's leadership as well.

>>Note; I have not posted any rumor on this topic that I have heard. I am only trying to understand if anybody on this site knows if anything has come out of this issue. I have stated that IF a sanction were given, THEN I believe the appropriate action would be to apologize and accept responsiblity.<<

What you're doing is fishing. It's okay to stir the pot making insinuations and then sit back and loudly proclaim your innocence, but it's rather hard to look credible while you're stirring with one hand and gesturing proclaiming your innocence with the other.

>>Why would I kid about feelings being hurt at CSC?<<

I have no clue. It's just difficult to take someone seriously who is claiming that one announcement hurt a club when that same club made an announcement concerning a merger two days later. If CSC felt a real wrong had been committed, it would have not only not announced its merger days before the state challenge cup but it would have fired the coach who announced he was going to CESA and gave his permission for his name to be in the announcement; instead, CSC welcomed him back (which in my opinion, was the right move for CSC.)

>>This is not victimization and let's have a pity part (I'm a licensed professional counselor and I've seen that much too often),<<

Okay...I'm starting to understand the attitude now.

>>but it is the fact of the incident. If you recall, CESA came out first with their statement and within a week CSC/NECSA later came out with their statement. Question, not rumor, could it have been that one led to the other?<<

Only if the leaders of CSC and NECSA weren't telling the truth when they talked to "The State" and said that CESA had nothing to do with their decision to pursue a merger.

By the way, even if they weren't telling the truth -- I don't believe that in two days CSC and NECSA got together, decided to do merger, and made the announcement. I've not seen that type of efficiency from boards of any corporate entity before.

But if I'm wrong, and the CESA announcement is what caused CSC and NECSA to merge, I would think a "thank you" is in order to CESA -- because Columbia-area soccer needed to change. But again, I don't believe a "thank you" is in order, because I believe what the leaders of CSC and NECSA said.

>>I believe some would like to discount what happened and say that Oprah-zation is now in youth soccer. But if it did happen and people were hurt, then what is the term we are to use? I call it "survivor", not victim.<<

Staying with the facts for just a moment, here's what occurred. CESA made an announcement it was expanding its Columbia program and that a former CSC DOC and a CSC coach would join CESA. Two days later CSC and NECSA announced that they were in talks to merge.

Debating this logically has to be a losing proposition for you since any "losing of focus" or "hurt feelings" could equally be said to have occurred on either announcement. Clearly, none of the three clubs believed that making an announcement was doing anything other than informing its membership of its plans.

When things happen and people spuriously claim hurt who in fact did not suffer injury and who should not have reasonably suffered injury, that's called things like "frivilous" or a "culture of victimization" or "Ophra-ization."

>>Side note:
Victimization: If a family member gets abused (physical/emotional) is it termed A)being a victim B)Oprah-ization or C)being a survivor (assuming they live) ? I believe that a person who was hurt does not want to be known as a victim for the rest of their life, but they want to come out of an incident known as a survivor. When something truly happens why do some of us want to whitewash the whole discussion as if it never happened by throwing out the pity party card? If something happened call it for what it is. However, I am well aware that America has become the "blame it on someone else" society in order to not accept responsibility and this does cloud many positions.<<

The problem is defining what "abuse" is. In this case, you're trying to sell "abuse" as CESA making an announcement with CSC being the victim when CSC performed the same type of "abuse" two days later and then a day or two after that CSC welcomed back an "abusing" coach immediately. It's a difficult sell, at best.

>>Accepting Responsibility:
We often jump to one side of an issue because we want to believe the person and we might think that they have the best interest of us in their minds. However, as we have learned from history, until we learn the facts it is wise to form ones opinion and wait until the facts come out to express his/her opinion. Remember Bill Clinton and, "I never had sex" or George Bush talking about weapons of mass distruction? How about Susan Smith and her aledged reports. We are often a passionate society and like to express our opinions. However, when we or leaders are wrong with our expressions, or lack thereof, we need to accept responsibility, receive consequences if necessary, and move forward.

I believe this is a great website for expressing opinions but we must understand that these are mostly opinions and not always facts. I wanted to believe Bush, Clinton, and Smith and expressed my opinion before knowing the facts. I've learned and I hope others learn that we are often deceived by what we hear or see. What counts is how we handle when we're wrong.<<

Of course you have an opinion -- as do I. What it seems to break down to is that you believe the CESA announcement formed some type of "abuse" with CSC as a victim and I don't. This is an honest difference of opinion; while I find your opinion unfounded and without merit, I understand that you have some deep-seated inner need for it regardless of the merits of your argument.

With regard to the national context you cite: when Clinton said he didn't have sex with Lewinsky and later admitted it only when incontrovertable proof was found, it was clear he lied -- which he later admitted to the country and his wife and asked forgiveness. Equating that somehow to the WMD argument is silly -- while Bush was absolutely wrong that WMD's existed, he was wrong in the company of a legion of Republicans and Democrats (including Clinton) who believed that WMD's existed. You can hate Bush or love him, but trying to make the case that he knew the WMD's did not exist but fooled everyone into thinking that they did (even before he took office) has always been a bit of a stretch -- as evidenced by the last election. I'm not a fan of Bush (and am less a fan of Kerry); but the difference between "lie" and "mistake" couldn't be much clearer. If someone can prove that anyone lied about something, then I'm with you on the belief that someone should apologize.

Great Post! I think you are actually understanding my issues. However, without stating rumors I will have to not enitrely respond to your last post. One point I must make is that I don't believe that 2 days between announcements was all the time CSC & NECSA had to begin this process. I think there must have been previous talks. Additionally, I believe that CSC & NECSA announced that they were beginning talks to merge and that nothing was final. Therefore, 2 days only allowed them to start the process.

You are correct in your break down! I do believe the CESA announcement formed some type of "abuse" with CSC as the victim (survivor). This is because of what I have heard and am trying to understand if it really happened. I truly hope I am wrong in my intent to reveal the truth! If I am then you will surely hear an apology. But if I am not wrong that something inappropriate happened and someone received sanctions, then my deep-seated inner need for honesty is whats correctly driving me.

Thanks for link to the scysa website. I will see if they can help me.

A little terminology clarity: "the CESA announcement" means not the announcement timing alone, but also the manner in which the process was handled.

I don't know if the DOC at CSC had a contract or not, however, I do know that the girls on the team he coached at CSC were hurt by his leaving. I have yet to hear anyone mention the kids that made a year-long commitment to a team that now has to go into the spring season with a new coach. These girls play U-13 and spring is when they play for their state cup. The "mid-stream" coaching change has caused a lot of disharmony on that team. Someone should appoligize to them!!! This whole thing should be about the kids playing the game and not some adults living vicariously through them.

greenacres: I actually did hear first-hand that when the CSC DOC left CSC that there was no offer to him, and no discussion of an offer to him, from CESA. So who do you want to apologize to whom? Do you want the CSC board to apologize to the kids for not putting the former CSC DOC under an annual contract? Do you want the former CSC DOC to apologize for leaving the club under any circumstances? Have you contacted either of these parties and asked for an explanation or an apology?

Why didn't they follow him to CESA???

Or was that even considered by the team and parents?

Chico: I don't know a thing about timing of offers and such. I do know that a coach that happened to be the DOC quit coaching a team of young girls for "personal reasons." In a short matter of time those "personal reasons" must have been resolved, because there was an announcement that the same coach was heading up a Cola. extension of CESA. I guess the only appology should be from that coach to the team he left hanging.

What I would really like to know is what happened to the Cola. extension of CESA? All reference to it has been removed from the CESA webite.

I only want to know because I would like to have CESA in Cola. as an option for my child. The proposed "merger" of CSC/NECSA does not really appeal to me. I don't think either club has given their developmental programs a chance to take them to where they want to go. I believe this is the first or second year of that program for both. I see a merger as two leaky boats tying themselves to each other only to go down together.....just my opinion.

greenacres: I actually did hear first-hand that when the CSC DOC left CSC that there was no offer to him, and no discussion of an offer to him, from CESA.

What Chico????? Now I'm really confused. You say CESA did not offer Eddie Crosby a position, and yet the CESA press release states ...

For immediate release 11/14/05

Carolina Elite Soccer Academy (CESA) announced that they will establish a program in the Columbia area beginning in the spring of 2006. Jim Heilich, who has been a CESA staff member since the club’s inception and former Columbia Soccer Club Director Eddie Crosby will help to implement this new program. Chris Christian, who led the Columbia Soccer Club Under 13 Boys to the Challenge Cup State Championship last season, will also join Heilich and Crosby as a member of the CESA staff. CESA has offered training in the Columbia area over the past year and is now committed to forming recreation, academy and select teams based in Columbia.

Help me understand your post.

Shrink Rap: Here's a clue. When did the CSC DOC resign? Here's a bigger clue. Why did the CSC DOC resign?

Answer #1: I was told that there was no offer or even discussion of his joining CESA before he resigned.

Answer #2: It had nothing to do with CESA.

Good advice, seek the contact page. This stuff is just going to be rehashed until facts are either brought to light, or they are nullified.

What is the big deal about this? Was there an offer before he resigned, there was no offer before he resigned. He needs to apologize, he doesn't need to apologize. Look folks what it boils down to is he did what he believes was best for himself. One thing is pretty obvious - he was not happy where he was or he would still be there. Would you stay employed at a place if you were not happy? It's a rough world out there. This type of stuff happens everyday out there in the old world of business. Feathers and feelings will get ruffled. Shame on CSC if they did not have some sort of contractual agreement with him. Dot your i's and cross your t's (CYA). Hillcrest High School's AD/Head football coach just resigned earlier this week effective immediately. He didn't call my son (who is a senior this year) and apolgize to him (not that I would want him to anyway) I didn't hear of anyone say they received an apology for him resigning. I just don't see what the big ordeal is with this. Move forward and learn from this and concentrate on your merger with NECSA.

Shrink

I guess you still have not caught the big one yet uh? Eddie resigned, CESA offered him a position. why is that not clear? In regards to the girls, why did Eddie feel a need to resign? Obviously he still wanted to be involved in the game by his decision to join CESA. I think as Chico stated, you need to ask your board, which has been horrible over the years, as to why Eddie resigned.

As opposed to a merger, Eddie has been talking with different clubs for 2 years now as to a merger in the columbia area. Just ask Striker2004, he can fill you in on columbia mergers.

From what I've read, Striker may be better served 'shelving books'.

"Shame on CSC if they did not have some sort of contractual agreement with him."

Darn. I need to talk to my organization about signing me for a contract. I must be in the minority on contract signing.

I agree with GFCPOP21. What is done is done. Clubs are moving forward. I believe this will be good for Columbia soccer once things get hashed out in the next 4-5 months.

I suspect CESA found finding fields in Columbia a lot harder than in the upstate. County run fields do not like to share with the clubs and want exclusion rights to the fields for their rec programs. A lot of the county programs make money from the rec programs and do not want to see that revenue stream disappear. A lot of clubs in Columbia has disappeared because of this problem. Chapin Soccer Assoc., PGSA, and Carolina FC to name a few have died because of this exact problem.

I know for a fact that someone promised CESA some fields in Chapin. I knew that someone was making promises that they couldn't keep because Chapin protects those fields like it was their baby and their was no way they would allow any club team including CSC to use those fields except for a 1-2 day type event. Even then the first drop of rain and the fields will close.

***But this is all just my speculation on the subject and may have no bearing on CESA.

I got this from the CESA website, but it still doesn't state if CESA will field "Columbia" teams in the future.

2006 CESA Greenville and Columbia Spring Training


CESA will again offer its spring training in Greenville and Columbia beginning the week of February 6, 2006. Greenville-based spring training will take place on Wednesday nights at 7:00PM at CESA's Wenwood facility. Columbia-based spring training will take place on Monday nights at 7:00PM at Boundary Park in Chapin. Greenville-based training will be led by Andrew Hyslop and the CESA staff; Columbia-based training will be led by Jim Heilich and the CESA staff.


This training is offered free of charge. All players are invited to attend. Players participating in CAP are strongly encouraged to make use of these training sessions. For more information on CAP, please see this link.

For additional information, please contact Andrew Hyslop (e-mail: Andrew@CarolinaEliteSC.com).

Don't think you're going to get answers. NECSA has filed a complaint trying to lobby the SCYSA to disallow CESA being in Columbia saying its against SCYSA bylaws. Read the bylaws and couldn't see where it said anything about that, but I'm not a lawyer (NECSA president is), I think lawyers can get anything to say anything.

It's all about the kids, right?

Why would you not want Cesa in the Columbia area?
It gives your kids another choice as to where to play and competiton with other clubs will only make everyone better.If Walmart is the only shop in town,then why would they have to work at being the best.I think when you have choices it can only make the product better.I can only hope that someday Cesa will consider opening shop here in the lowcountry so my kids will have another choice and it will make every club down here step up to the plate to keep what they have

Point taken....I just like the idea of choice..With the prices we pay now for competitive soccer and I have a daughter playing.It just seems like our choices are limited.Due to the numbers of girls and the emphasis put on girls programs

Choices?

How many do you need?

CSC, NECSA, CRSA, LCSC then add in the YMCA's and ICRC

What good will CESA coming into Cola do? It would do a good job of of spreading out the players and coaches even more. As was pointed out there is already a numbers problem in Cola so lets take 2 or 3 kids from each age group at each existing club to make a new club in Cola...hey thats smart!

So someone tell me why I would want CESA to come to Cola? we already have TOO MANY CHOICES, we already have some outstanding programs, we already have outstanding coaches!

If you REALLY want to play for CESA take your happy butt to Greenville.

If you have an outstanding program and outstanding coaches then you have what you need and consider yourself lucky.If the parents and players are happy with their programs and coaches then Cesa will cease to exist in the cola area.If Cesa does set up shop in your area and is successful in forming teams then not everyone is content with their choices.Just the thought of Cesa coming to the cola area has already brought two programs together.I am not saying Cesa is the answer for everything.Would CSC and NECSA considered a merger if Cesa was not coming to Cola?I think people have more of a problem with the word CESA than with another club in your backyard

I would like you to show me 1 kid that decided on their own that the club they play for is not giving them what they want or need...the kids get it from their parents.
It's the parents that think little johnnie or suzie are superstars and need to be playing years ahead of their age for the team that won the last state championship... kids are just out there to have fun...and if their not having fun then the parents need to step back and ask themselves "What am I doing?"...Not saying "we need another club"

I'm with you on the CSC/NECSA merger..probably wouldn't happen without the CESA anouncement.
Personally I think the merger is one of the best things that could happen for soccer in the Cola area. Now, if they can just make it happen.

I found this announcement on the CESA website today! The saga continues..........

CESA and CRSA Form Exclusive Partnership

CESA (Carolina Elite Soccer Academy) and CRSA (Congaree Rapid Soccer Association) today announced the formation of an exclusive partnership in which both soccer clubs will work together to increase opportunities for Columbia-area youth soccer players. The two clubs will share resources, professional expertise, tactics, and strategies for increasing the penetration of soccer in underserved and urban markets while maintaining an overall focus on improving soccer opportunities for all players.


CRSA has consistently demonstrated that it is one of the best soccer clubs in the state in terms of both player development and in reaching out to kids that might not otherwise have a chance to play soccer.


“CESA has had enormous success since its inception; not just in terms of state championships but in terms of innovative programs aimed at increasing the level of services it offers to South Carolina youth soccer players,” said Kevin Heise, director of coaches at CRSA. “We’re pleased to be working closely with them to continue increasing the level of services to players and to get new players involved in soccer as well,” Heise added.


CESA and CRSA are programs with a proven commitment to youth soccer. This exclusive partnership will enhance the level of service that each club can provide and will give families access to the necessary tools needed to help players reach their potential.

I agree with you completely about parents...We are the ones that created this monster.When my kids started six years ago there were no training fees.The soccer professionals saw the gleam in the parent's eye and look what we have today and who knows where it will end.Parent's decide where their kids will play...no doubt unless little Johnnie can find an income.There is quite a contrast from boys to girls.My daughter did choose to play where the girls are instead of the elite program.Boys,I believe have more choices due to numbers.But if the kids are not happy they will quit sooner or later.To be honest..alot of the kids on elite teams are athletes..not soccer players.They are just bigger or stronger..maybe meaner.

And the saga continues.....It's like a soap oprea that you can't stop watching

Sons a Player -- That was posted on this Message Board at 2:13 p.m., as well.

It is also mentioned at the CRSA website.

Sorry, I must have missed it in my jubilation over finding such breaking news. I think it is great and believe that the NECSA board never saw it coming! The face of soccer in the Cola. area has certainly changed quickly in the last six months. The increased competition will only bring about quality for our kids. Nobody likes a monopoly except Milton Bradley

Wow. 3 days and 2 posts on the message boards and you have already taken a shot at NECSA twice and CSC once. That has to get you into some kind of record book.

I know of 4 coaches that have resigned from CSC in the last 2 months but 3 of them where very close friends of Eddie and left with him and the last one wanted a break from the drama of it all. None of them resigned just because of the merger or else you would have had a lot of coaches leaving at NECSA and I don't know of any coaches that have left from NECSA. Turn over is always a problem at any organiztion. I know several coaches left CESA last season and other clubs throughout the state.

I know that NECSA has lost at least one coach U-14 girls. I think that it was because she coaches a high school team and only signed on for the fall.

Greenacres, I think your correct...she only coaches club in the fall. Chapindad, I KNOW you are correct. Soccer-SC, get your facts together before you spout off.

Personaly, I hope the coaches that left CSC do start coaching somewhere else in the Cola area. Everyone of them is an outstanding coach it would be ashame for them to not be out there.

Let me make this very clear I AM NOT ANTI CESA. I think they have done great things in the upstate.

The point I was making is that there are currently 10 different programs in Cola...What good will one more do? We don't have enough players to support the 10 programs we have! If you really think CESA (or any other club)can come in and do it better or give more opportunities to more kids than the clubs that are already here, your out of your mind! If you can not find what you are looking for with the 10 programs we already have, maybe, just maybe it's you and not the programs.


Do other youth sports have this much drama?

SoccerPop9194: I guess I'm going to have to break in. I understand and respect your position that having more players play at fewer clubs will improve Columbia soccer. However, statistically the Columbia area is actually underserved with respect to the number of SCYSA clubs denominated by population. While I am all for the CSC/NECSA merger, it will only tend to exacerbate the statistical difference between Greenville, Charleston, and Columbia in terms of clubs denominated by population, i.e., Columbia will grow more underserved in terms of clubs denominated by population.

I have a lot of numbers that prove this, but an easier demonstration may be found in the map at this thread. While reviewing it, you might remember that Columbia as an MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) is more numerous than either Greenville or Charleston -- thus the relative fewer clubs Columbia has are not offset by a smaller population, but instead the larger population of Columbia execerbates the effect even more.

Again, let me make it clear that I believe that the Columbia soccer landscape should change and that I believe that it makes sense for CSC and NECSA to merge. But I'm pleased that in addition to that merger, that there are other things going on to change the landscape of Columbia soccer.

I hear that AAU baseball and Basketball is a lot worse...

chapindad

what 4 coaches have resigned? were their resignations immediate as was eddies? just curious

Chico, I agree with you 100% on the need for change in the Cola area. I too am a big fan of the CSC/NECSA merger as well as CRSA and their abilities as a developmental league. However, if you soley base your arguement on numbers you need to break them down to qualify them not just quantify. The population break down is not the same (not even close) for the Greenville, Columbia and Charleston areas. For example there are aproximately 15,000 more kids from ages 5-17 in the Greenville area (Greenville & Spartanburg counties) than in the Columbia Area (lexington & Richland counties) each with 4 SCYSA clubs that I could find. By my estimate the Charleston area should be the one with the best "choice" or worst depending on how you look at it. The socio-economic break down is almost identical to Columbia...the Charleston area has approximately 6,000 more kids (5-17) and 6 SCYSA clubs that I could find. Granted you could make the argument that you can not group Spartanburg and Greenville counties together because they are more spread out than Lexington and Richland. However, if you look past just the population numbers and get into the population breakdown by age, income, race ect...it becomes even more evident that Greenville and Spartanburg have a much more pronounced numbers advantage.

Just my research on the matter here is where the numbers came from: http://www.sciway.net/statistics/population.html

I feel for the parents involved with AAU if it's worse than soccer.

By the way...I know I can not spell for crud so stay off my back about my spelling!

Pop,

The CESA/Congaree plan takes into consideration all demographics, including race and income. I applaud their efforts to bring affordable, competitive soccer to a market that has long since been ignored since the evolution of "paid coaching".

Now that I agree with...If the Cola. area is going to flourish it needs to break out of the "paid coaches" market and back to the voluteer coaches. Those who coach because they truely love to coach not because they are getting paid.

If you look at any set of bylaws for any NPO they are going to make the same claim. Can they do it is another question. If they can it will be outstanding

I'm not speaking for CESA or Congaree, I'm just trying to read between the lines. The Congaree boss said that there is no money exchanging hands for fields. If there is any money changing hands, I imagine it is going to subsidize the coaching and training for those children who have not had the means (but may have the talent) to play organized/competitive soccer.

The people doing the training would probably be compensated. Again, I'm not part of either organization, I'm just trying to put two and two together and make five.

SoccerPop9194: Thanks for the opportunity to discuss this. There are several potential fundamental errors in your analysis:

1) According to US Census methodology, Greenville, Spartanburg, and Columbia are three separate MSA's. Aggregating two MSA's and comparing against a third MSA is nonsensical -- in census terms what you are doing is comparing a CSA (Combined Statistical Area) against an MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area.) For more information on why an MSA is the appropriate unit of measure, please see the sources cited -- but the bottom line is what you note when you question your own results concerning apples-to-apples county comparisons. [Source: US Census Bureau, Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas; Specific Source of MSA's: http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/metro_general/List1.txt, December 2005]

2) You need more rigor on your team counts; you're off on all of them. For example, the Columbia MSA has 6 SCYSA teams: CSC, LCSC, NECSA, CRSA, Lower Lexington, LCDOR. All of these fall within Lexington and Richland Counties. [Source: SCYSA Web Site]

3) Breaking the population down into a 5-17 age demographic doesn't have the effect you cite. You are creating an effect by mixing county data and what may be CSA/MSA data (although it's difficult to tell.) For example, here are the 5-17 demographic for selected counties:

Greenville County: 5-17 [2000]: 17.8% 379,616 67,572
Lexington County: 5-17 [2000]: 19.3% 216,014 41,691
Richland County: 5-17 [2000]: 17.9% 320,677 57,402
Charleston COunty: 5-17 [2000]: 17.3% 309,969 53,625

[Source: US Census Bureau, 2000 Demographics]

As you can tell, Richland and Lexington actually have a higher percentage of people aged 5-18 than Greenville or Charleston. So trying to explain away gross population counts by demographics is actually a losing proposition for you. But the real trouble is that you can't just pick any county or combination of counties that you want (see point #1), you have to pick equivalent census-oriented entities. If you don't, the results are subject to incredible self-selection bias based on "stacking the data" by county/area selection. Again, see the MSA definition and history for the reason that the MSA is the appropriate unit.

I think the point is that there are talented players who are not being reached. I still coach a Columbia YMCA team and can count the number of hispanic players in the Y League last fall on two hands. I don't blame anyone for this. It's not NECSA, CSC, or the Y's fault, but I'm glad that CRSA and CESA want to reach out to these kids and others. There was a team in Lexington Soccer Club that tried to do this last year. It's principal sponsor died suddenly last fall, but I hope the team continues to play.

Chico, If you use the MSA as the measure the numbers get extreamly lop sided. If we take the just total MSA population numbers as set by the US Census Bureau...

Charleston-North Charleston, SC MSA = 549,033

Columbia, SC MSA = 536,691

Greenville--Spartanburg--Anderson, SC MSA = 962,441

(source: U.S. Census Bureau
Census 2000 - P1 Total population - Census 2000 summary file 3)

Now if we look at the population under 18:

Charleston-North Charleston, SC MSA = 141,342 or 25.7%

Columbia, SC MSA = 133,922 or 25%%

Greenville--Spartanburg--Anderson, SC MSA = 235,319 or 24.5%

(source: U.S. Census Bureau
Census 2000 - Universe: population under18 years - Census 2000 summary file 2 100-percent data)

So you are correct, Cola. and Charleston do have a higher percentage of children under tha age of 18. However, it is a .5% and 1.2% difference of a much smaller number and that is before we start to break those numbers down into "classes"

I do not like using the MSA as a measure (at least in this case) because when you look at the Greenville--Spartanburg--Anderson, SC MSA you are talking 3 metropolitan areas sread over 5 counties. That is the reason I had lumped the counties together using just Greenville and Spartanburg, maybe not as accurate but a more equitable measure.(in my opinion)

Something which shocked me was that Lexington and Richland counties have more black children than all 5 counties in the Greenville MSA combined.

SoccerPop9194: You're using 2000 MSA's: MSA's are by their design changed as communities change. In other words, you've got to use 2005 MSA's. You'll get what you want in that Greenville, Spartanburg, and Anderson were disaggregated into separate MSA's. It doesn't change the numbers; whether you take the under 18 demographic or if you do what I tend to do and take the 5-17 demographic.

I have a ton of data on this that I've been developing for 2+ years. The split of Greenville, Spartanburg, and Anderson was a shocker; and yet it was valid given both census data and traffic patterns.

I wonder if population and demographics were at least partial thoughts in the mind of the clubs involved in the CESA/CRSA partnership?

Chico, aren't the census's done every 10 years? so if you are using 2005 msa's your using "estimates" aren't you? I have not seen where they broke them up...but it would make sense!

Yes...I'm using US Census estimates. The details are in the cited sources.

get away from paid coaches? thats the way to do it soccerpop. CESA and Bridge would definitely rule the state then.

Yes get away from "paid coaches"...I don't mean we don't need to pay our coaches nor am I saying that our "paid coaches" don't do an outstanding job. However, if Cola is going to penetrate into the "inner city / under privileged" market one of 2 things needs to happen. Either find volunteer coaches that are willing to do it for free or at least a very reduced fee. Or find a person or organization which is willing to pick up the cost of the coahes. Hopefully, this is what will happen with the CRSA/CESA partnership

Pop,
Why don't you volunteer?

Is there any update on the alleged by-law violations by CESA? Somewhere on a previous post it was stated that it would be resolved this past weekend.

Chef,

Coached for @ 7 years...even had a state champion team...never took a dime for it! Unfortunately, I no longer have the time to coach. But I do volunteer as much time as I can to the club.

Word has it that CESA has been placed on probation by SCYSA. Is that true? If so, when will this be publicly announced? What is the reasoning from SCYSA?

Cola Fan: What did CESA do to be put on probation? Any word? Sounds like disgruntled competitors trying to protect their turf.

Speaking of probation, what exactly does that mean?

I think it's like in Animal House, with the double-secret probation thing!