SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP Talent Evaluation Analysis & Other Musings

I do not believe that the US can emulate the European/South American model of player development, which essentially plucks kids out of the amateur ranks at a very young age and puts them into pro club systems.

I remeber as a young boy in Europe hearing about some of my friends' older brothers being paid a very modest amount to play for a local team. Financially, it was basically comparable to bagging groceries at the local Piggly Wiggly.

What we do not see in the US, is how many talented kids are lost in the european system. For every Luca Toni -- who rose rom the Serie C to Serie A ranks - there are 100 journeyman players who never made good money, and another 100 who opted to pursue a higher education over soccer.

Instead of fighting to replace the US collegiate system, which after all, produces world class basketball players; the US needs to figure out how to improve it with year around play opportunities and such. I also believe that Bruce Arena is correct when he says that we have to develp our style which emphasizes our stengths, athleticism and speed, instead of trying to copy other countries' systems.

The club system, on the other hand, seems to me to be the root of all evil. I say this as the parent of a club player, and as an enthusiastic club booster. I'm not blaming the clubs, but they are just to damned expensive. Compare the cost of club soccer, let alone ODP, to comparable basketball programs and the problem is apparent. Talented soccer players must clear big financial hurdles to play at the club level. This is where we lose the second 10 percent that Kevin speaks of. Club play must become more affordable znd accesible. This is where we could take a page from other countries. Here, we play in the local Y league. In other countries, the pro clubs run or are invovled in youth leagues. How many YMCA parents know anything about MLS or A League soccer?

Finally, we have good reason to be optimistic. We are one generation away from soccer being a truly mainstream sport. I play in adult leagues and pick up games, and I remain impressed by the home grown talent found in the US. We have a generation of thirty somethings who are accomplished players, from high schools (Irmo comes to mind) or colleges with soccer traditions. They now have kids, who are also players in the younger age groups. The future is bright for US soccer.


Given the current demographic of soccer players in the US, this type of scheme won't work.

I should add Brookland Cayce to schools with a soccer traditon. From what I see, BC, like Dreher, Cardinal Newman, and others will influence the local soccer scene for years to come.

Coach...some help for you here

1989 ODP STATE TEAM
Andy Angrino
Michael Antinoro, Northwestern
Stuart Brunt - home schooled (I tihnk)
Reel Callison, Lexington
Nicholaus Castro, Riverside
Kevin Cawthon -
Andrew Chavarria, Lexington
Reed Dement - Emerald
Robert Eppelsheimer, Wando
Kevin Haskins - Wren ( I may confuse him with Cawthorn)
Jan Hernandez
Joey Howard - Dutch Fork
Quinn Hunt - Aiken
Michael Mudge, Daniel
Blair Rushing, Greenville
Devon Telford - Ridge View (does not play HS)
Ross Waters
Cade Weatherly, Ben Lippen
A-Justin Blomdahl, Waccamaw
A-Christopher Dixon
A-Talon Stroud - Dorman

1990 ODP STATE TEAM
Crayton Benson
Patrick Cates, Dutch Fork
Zackary Clark
Michael Czulinski - Ridge View
Andrew Denn
Michael Essman
Gradey Grumman
Rudiger Hellberger
Luke Hogan - Wando
George Khoury, Bishop England
Ralph Lundy, Wando
William Lynch - Irmo
Enzo Martinez, Northwestern
Erik Mozzo
Kevin Nolan
Robert Owens
Aaron Peter, Riverside
David Slaughter - Chapin
A-Gustavo Delgado, Lexington
A-Graham Howard - Lexington
A-David Moore
A-Tyler Vukoder, Fort Mill

1991 ODP STATE TEAM
Stephen Arneson
Andrew Barbieri, Fort Mill
Nash Brace
Henry Callis
Jason Chapman
Andrew Gorospe
Alexis Martinez - Northwestern
Kyle McEwan, Irmo
Benjamin Montry
Byron Quinatoa, Dreher
Daniel Riley
Brendan Shumberger
Tyler Staub
Joseph Sweet, Pinewood Prep
Brandon Tyner - Bishop England
Michael Valencia
Thomas Valikonis
Adam Wolf
A-Patrick Adkins
A-Jeffrey Antinoro
A-Chandler Burns
A-Timothy Byrd
A-Jordan Hunsaker
A-Brantley Wiggins

Kevin,

If the South Carolina ODP system were perfect, and able to identify the top 18 players per age group each year (and these players and their parents could afford it and would choose to participate), how many of these kids would receive athletic aid to play soccer in college?

Look at the rosters of our 20+ college programs. These college coaches aren't stupid, they are in a competitive situation and they are paid to succeed (win). We are a relatively small state with a limited soccer history. We are getting better each year but we are not yet producing tons of players of the calibre of some of our regional competition (GA, FL, TX, NC, VA). Therefore, these college coaches look elsewhere.

Realistically, we have 18 players on a U-18 ODP roster, what's the proper/average distribution for the college level that they should play at? How many are D1, D2 & D3? If they are D3, where are they going? We don't have any D3 schools in SC. It would cost a fortune for a South Carolina kid to play at a D3 school unless he/she has at least 1400 SATs and is in the Top 2% of their class.

Hurst66 -- I understand your point, but you cannot simply judge D1, D2, and D3 as true "levels".

Using the college men's programs in S.C. alone, USC-Upstate is every bit as quality as several of the D1 programs. D2 schools like Presbyterian historically have been on par with some of the D1 programs as well. (On another note, that's probably partly why both schools are in the process of getting D1 status).

Of course there are no D3 schools in S.C. and out-of-state options are costly.

I still argue that we have 4-5 legitimate D1 caliber players a year that we are producing and another 15-20 that can be role players at the D1 level on a 24-man roster.

That still does not tackle the issue of what is best for developing national and international level players however.

Now my opinion ... Everything that follows has a caveat.... That all involved have the development of the player as the most important issue to help them achieve their best.

1- College coaches will seldom attend HS games to evaluate players. The most obvious exception is the Palmetto cup where the field and quality is such that allows the LOCAL schools to recruit.
2- The only time a college coach will attend a HS game is to physically see a player they already have interest on based on club/ODP.
3-The ODP process in SC (and very likely elsewhere) is broken. I will expand further below.
4- Club performance and level of play will attract college coaches at certain locations. These will be tournaments such as Score at the shore, Raleigh Shootout, Disney Showcase, Jefferson Cup, Dallas cup, etc. and most state cup games.

Here is the problem...

SC plays its club season during College season. Therefore coaches cannot attend ragular season games. HS level is not the same as club (except for a few programs)Therefore it does not indicate competitiveness.

If Johnny/Sally is a real good player but plays in a mediocre to low team, you are virtually guaranteed not to be seen or heard off as you will not be able to attend any of the high level tourneys and most likely will not be at state cup.

So the team you play on is important.

The team you play on will be good if the coach is a good coach and attracts/developes the better players.

Therefore the coach is important.

And the team will be invited (make no mistake on the word invited) to play in the high level tourneys only if the coach has connections or the Club has recognition.

Therefore the club you play in is somewhat important.

So what we know

1-HS games are not where you will be “FOUND”. Unless by Local D2 school, maybe.

2-You should get into the best team with a good coach. The club it belongs to is somewhat secondary.

3-During HS season your school should attend a quality soccer tournament, for a final look.

4-BUT nothing should take away from having to market yourself aggressively… You must make it a point to be on the radar screen. PLUS grades, grades, grades. If you have a 1.0 it won't matter to colleges if you are Pele. On the other hand you should have an agent and be playing MLS/Europe instead.

This brings us to the next point – Camps & ODP

Camps are great for recruiting opportunities, but you must get into the right camp in the right session… for example the senior elite camps at Clemson, Furman and USC. Here you will have the opportunity to be showcased to many college coaches (not just that school) in an individual level… both a good thing and a bad thing. Key question do you need to go every year? Probably not, the key year is summer to summer of your Junior year (Girls may extend into senior year). If by this time you are not somewhat known, you probably never will.

ODP – as far as I am concerned ODP is broken. Here in SC and elsewhere, although the size of the participating population will impact the program. In my opinion I would like it better if instead of tryouts, players were invited to participate in the program (US CLUB SOCCER SUPER Y)… How do you do this?

1-The clubs should have a vested interest in the program; to date not many clubs do (think pro club vs national team issues – injuries, etc.). How do you have the club buy in? The coaches in an age group have to select the best 3 players for the opposing team after every game. The youth coaches know who these players are. A coordinator for the age group is selected to compile and discuss with the coaches the selection, for example Finotti is selected to coordinate the U15 boys.
2-As the season progresses, a list is generated from which an invitation will be extended to come to camp. There would only be a cost for registration, the additional fees should be from sponsorship opportunities.
3-SCYSA should centralize training, with the logical location being Columbia as the state central location. This requires fields or an arrangement with a local club.
4-The team is assigned the coordinating coach and a College coach for all training.

Now in a perfect world this would work, however there should be some rules in place that clearly define recruiting do’s and do not’s that affect the coaches from the clubs.

There is basically no way to eliminate the political perception of the program for one simple reason. Whether it is try-outs or invitation the fact is, it is someone’s opinion -similar to judging high dives or ice skating at the Olympics – not everyone will agree. But what everyone will agree on is that the selection process was done over a period of time in which Johnny/Sally had ample time to show his/hers stuff.

The cost is minimal and it would very likely identify the top players.

Lastly there should be showcase programs were teams come together and play each other in front of a large number of college coaches (similar to the Fayetteville friendlies).

The cost should be field usage and referees nothing else.

futbol,

Very good analysis of the college recruiting process. Also enjoyed your thoughts on improving ODP.

Question - US Club Soccer / Super Y.

Let's say I have a son who is a good player, but plays on an average to below average club team. He likes the team. The coach does a very good job in training/tactics but the player pool has never expanded because the kids & parents are loyal and there has been very little turnover. Thus the team has never moved up to the premier ranks.

Can this boy get additional exposure by hooking up with a Super Y team in the summer? What are the restrictions? Can players be assembled from a number of SCYSA teams and a team formed for Super Y?

futbol, thanks for the breakdown. One of the best things I've read on here.

Hurst... The answer is they are mutually exclusive. SCYSA and SUPER Y belong to two different organizations. Since neither has jurisdiction over the players going elsewhere you can play SCYSA and Super Y.

The answers to your questions - Yes, None and Yes

Note that SUPER Y is trying to become a year round program.

Super Y you still need to the marketing and the grades, plus getting into top tourneys like Score at the Shore or the nationals and regionals helps.

The Battery had started a Super-Y team in the early part of this decade, but no longer do so. I wonder why? What happened. It seemed to draw the best players from the Lowcountry and several from the mid-state as well.