SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP Talent Evaluation Analysis & Other Musings

Since the United States has bowed out of the 2006 World Cup, I wanted to hit on a topic that was raised in earlier threads about talent evaluation in the USA.

We all recognize that the Olympic Development Program is an expensive and sometimes exclusive avenue towards being recognized on a state and national scale. While ODP is a viable option for some, it obviously excludes potential players based on cost and availability.

The club scenario is certainly another way to expose talent on a state/national basis, but is it truly being utilized to do so. Are all players being included in this arena and if not, what could be done to include them. Are coaches involved in the club simply to garner a paycheck or truly develop individual and team talents.

High school soccer offers all kids an opportunity to compete, but repeatedly the prep game comes under attack for being too watered-down or a lesser-than pool of talent based on a "coaching what you get" philosophy. While HS is an admirable option for kids to play and my personal favorite, is it truly America's best option to develop international players?

How many kids in the 2006 graduating class are going to college based on exploits in ODP? In club? In high school?

I for one, know that at Brookland-Cayce HS we have several young men poised to play college soccer in the fall, and none of them were recruited via club soccer involvement. The same is true for the previous players that we have had in college. I realize this may be an exception to the rule, but the fact is, the lip-service provided for collegiate recruiting by clubs/ODP is widely exaggerated. Essentially the top 10% will be looked after as far as college soccer goes, but it's the next 10-20% that leaves me perplexed. These are the kids that have the ability to play at a "next level" but what are we doing to push the envelope as coaches/administrators as far as development and giving these kids an environment to improve.

Are our in-state colleges (and their coaches -- many of which are involved in ODP) looking after in-state talent or are they simply trying to keep their jobs and recruit the best players across the region/nation/internationally? Are they actively pursuing avenues to develop the in-state talent, or are they utilizing their summer camps to simply line their bank accounts?

Is soccer in this country being hindered by skill or athleticism? Is it our culture? Is it our multi-sport fanaticism?

I think it's a combination of the above. We in the U.S. value the Big 3 -- football/basketball/baseball. We pay cursory "isn't that nice" attention to hockey, soccer, tennis, and golf. Until soccer is more prevalent amongst the Big 3, we'll continue to fight/struggle for quality top-tier athletes. This is totally unlike the Argentinas, Brazils, Englands, Germanys, Netherlands, and Mexicos of the world in which those that "can play", play soccer! In America, those that cannot effectively play football (kickers don't count), basketball, and baseball (particularly in the South) move on to soccer. While they are often good athletes, we simply are not playing with our best in most cases.

What direction do we go? Should we pigeon-hole kids to soccer-only by the time kids are in the sixth grade in order to hone their skills? If so, who is to lead this effort -- MLS? USL First/Second Division Teams? Do they have the resources? As a society would we support taking kids out of a normal academic orientation to foster soccer development?

Let's face it, I'm having a hard time understanding why U11 players would travel 1-1/2 hours to play soccer for a team that could similarly be played 10-15 minutes from home. At $2.80 a gallon for gas, I just don't know where you draw the line. More power to them, but is the "product" truly superior and if so, how?

These are questions and ramblings raised amidst our debacle in Germany '06!

My question is simple. Where do the boys players on the 1989, 1990, and 1991 ODP state teams go to high school? I know several of the names, but need some help from the Board on this one!

1989 ODP STATE TEAM
Andy Angrino
Michael Antinoro, Northwestern
Stuart Brunt, Home School
Reel Callison, Lexington
Nicholaus Castro, Riverside
Kevin Cawthon, Wren
Andrew Chavarria, Lexington
Reed Dement, Emerald
Robert Eppelsheimer, Wando
Kevin Haskins
Jan Hernandez
Joey Howard, Dutch Fork
Quinn Hunt, Aiken
Michael Mudge, Daniel
Blair Rushing, Greenville
Devon Telford, Ridge View (doesn't play HS)
Ross Waters
Cade Weatherly, Lexington
A-Justin Blomdahl, Waccamaw
A-Christopher Dixon
A-Talon Stroud, Dorman

1990 ODP STATE TEAM
Crayton Benson, Northwestern
Danny Cates, Dutch Fork
Zackary Clark, Northwestern
Michael Czulinski, Ridge View
Andrew Denn
Michael Essman
Gradey Grumman
Rudiger Hellberger
Luke Hogan, Wando
George Khoury, Bishop England
Ralph Lundy, Wando
William Lynch, Irmo
Enzo Martinez, Northwestern
Erik Mozzo
Kevin Nolan
Robert Owens
Aaron Peter, Riverside
David Slaughter, Chapin
A-Gustavo Delgado, Lexington
A-Graham Howard, Lexington
A-David Moore
A-Tyler Vukoder, Fort Mill

1991 ODP STATE TEAM
Stephen Arneson
Andrew Barbieri, Fort Mill
Nash Brace
Henry Callis
Jason Chapman
Andrew Gorospe, South Pointe
Alexis Martinez, Northwestern
Kyle McEwan, Irmo
Benjamin Montry
Byron Quinatoa, Dreher
Daniel Riley
Brendan Shumberger
Tyler Staub
Joseph Sweet, Pinewood Prep
Brandon Tyner, Bishop England
Michael Valencia, Mauldin
Thomas Valikonis
Adam Wolf
A-Patrick Adkins
A-Jeffrey Antinoro, Rock Hill
A-Chandler Burns
A-Timothy Byrd
A-Jordan Hunsaker, Olympic (Charlotte, NC)
A-Brantley Wiggins

I'll be honest, my scope is from the high school level, because that is what I focus on from January through June. However, I don't see any names like A. Autenzio, D. Deas, S. Flynn, JC Gypin, S. Kulasekera, J. Maki, P. Myers, E. Penland, S. Velasquez, etc., and that bothers me when seeing some of these other names.

I think it would be better if the SCYSA site would publicize where players are from. I think that it would eliminate some obvious bias on the coaches that select part as well as give some credence to the clubs/HS that are producing these players.

What is there to hide?

I am pretty sure J. Maki and S. Kulasekera were asked to play ODP after a few people had quit. They were in attendance at the last training session if i understood correctly.

In my opinion though ODP can sometimes come across as a very political program. Alot of players may not want to try out for fear that even though they are good enough somebody with more connections, or who had previously been on the team may come along and take their potential spot.

Why were JM and SK not on the initial list? Cannot be from a lack of ability. I know that both register on the "blip screen" for those in the know.

I would say due to the fact that they were not on the initial team when the rosters were posted. It was not untill after players dropped out that they were extended invitations along with the alternates listed incase something of this nature happened.

Now that is getting in over my head. I am just a follower of the game, but know that Talon Stroud who was an alternate was out there along with a few other players. As far as who makes selections and who says who to bring in, I wouldn't begin to be able to answer that question. Somebody in an offical position would be much better suited to answer that question. So does anybody know?

You're right. Lots of players (many of them, good ones) fail to reach their potential and often stop playing.

ODP and Club (successful teams and those which attend major tournaments) are the recruiting ground for the BIG colleges. ODP teams are picked by the Coaches. Now that the club coaches are usually out of the mix, the politics for Boys ODP at least have dropped out too.

One suggestion, better tournaments, or at least one super tournament in SC. College Coach invitations, etc. This will take a lot of organising. Might be an idea for ODP to hold an in-state tournament as part of the selection process too. This would be another opportunity for local teams to showcase talent.

But I think the other issue is, how do coaches evaluate players who are NOT playing in good teams, against top level opponents and have yet to really develop as players ? I for one, had to pretty much stop playing for 3 years (14,15 &16) when I broke and rebroke my collarbone 4 times. So at 18 I feel I still had a lot of headroom. But how does a coach take that into account ?


So one final thought. 5-a-side Statewide tournaments in the summer will improve skills. Another thing to organise, but great fun to watch and play in.

What do the role of summer camps play on player development?

In my opinion it seems more and more kids are attending soccer summer camps for all ages. Can talanet from our state be evaluated at a place like Lundy Camp? Do colleges recruit from any of these high level camps?

I would venture to say that talent can be spotted in the younger campers, and the coaches working the camps can watch how they have progressed each summer, and eventually even recruit some of them.

I do not believe that the US can emulate the European/South American model of player development, which essentially plucks kids out of the amateur ranks at a very young age and puts them into pro club systems.

I remeber as a young boy in Europe hearing about some of my friends' older brothers being paid a very modest amount to play for a local team. Financially, it was basically comparable to bagging groceries at the local Piggly Wiggly.

What we do not see in the US, is how many talented kids are lost in the european system. For every Luca Toni -- who rose rom the Serie C to Serie A ranks - there are 100 journeyman players who never made good money, and another 100 who opted to pursue a higher education over soccer.

Instead of fighting to replace the US collegiate system, which after all, produces world class basketball players; the US needs to figure out how to improve it with year around play opportunities and such. I also believe that Bruce Arena is correct when he says that we have to develp our style which emphasizes our stengths, athleticism and speed, instead of trying to copy other countries' systems.

The club system, on the other hand, seems to me to be the root of all evil. I say this as the parent of a club player, and as an enthusiastic club booster. I'm not blaming the clubs, but they are just to damned expensive. Compare the cost of club soccer, let alone ODP, to comparable basketball programs and the problem is apparent. Talented soccer players must clear big financial hurdles to play at the club level. This is where we lose the second 10 percent that Kevin speaks of. Club play must become more affordable znd accesible. This is where we could take a page from other countries. Here, we play in the local Y league. In other countries, the pro clubs run or are invovled in youth leagues. How many YMCA parents know anything about MLS or A League soccer?

Finally, we have good reason to be optimistic. We are one generation away from soccer being a truly mainstream sport. I play in adult leagues and pick up games, and I remain impressed by the home grown talent found in the US. We have a generation of thirty somethings who are accomplished players, from high schools (Irmo comes to mind) or colleges with soccer traditions. They now have kids, who are also players in the younger age groups. The future is bright for US soccer.


Given the current demographic of soccer players in the US, this type of scheme won't work.

I should add Brookland Cayce to schools with a soccer traditon. From what I see, BC, like Dreher, Cardinal Newman, and others will influence the local soccer scene for years to come.

Coach...some help for you here

1989 ODP STATE TEAM
Andy Angrino
Michael Antinoro, Northwestern
Stuart Brunt - home schooled (I tihnk)
Reel Callison, Lexington
Nicholaus Castro, Riverside
Kevin Cawthon -
Andrew Chavarria, Lexington
Reed Dement - Emerald
Robert Eppelsheimer, Wando
Kevin Haskins - Wren ( I may confuse him with Cawthorn)
Jan Hernandez
Joey Howard - Dutch Fork
Quinn Hunt - Aiken
Michael Mudge, Daniel
Blair Rushing, Greenville
Devon Telford - Ridge View (does not play HS)
Ross Waters
Cade Weatherly, Ben Lippen
A-Justin Blomdahl, Waccamaw
A-Christopher Dixon
A-Talon Stroud - Dorman

1990 ODP STATE TEAM
Crayton Benson
Patrick Cates, Dutch Fork
Zackary Clark
Michael Czulinski - Ridge View
Andrew Denn
Michael Essman
Gradey Grumman
Rudiger Hellberger
Luke Hogan - Wando
George Khoury, Bishop England
Ralph Lundy, Wando
William Lynch - Irmo
Enzo Martinez, Northwestern
Erik Mozzo
Kevin Nolan
Robert Owens
Aaron Peter, Riverside
David Slaughter - Chapin
A-Gustavo Delgado, Lexington
A-Graham Howard - Lexington
A-David Moore
A-Tyler Vukoder, Fort Mill

1991 ODP STATE TEAM
Stephen Arneson
Andrew Barbieri, Fort Mill
Nash Brace
Henry Callis
Jason Chapman
Andrew Gorospe
Alexis Martinez - Northwestern
Kyle McEwan, Irmo
Benjamin Montry
Byron Quinatoa, Dreher
Daniel Riley
Brendan Shumberger
Tyler Staub
Joseph Sweet, Pinewood Prep
Brandon Tyner - Bishop England
Michael Valencia
Thomas Valikonis
Adam Wolf
A-Patrick Adkins
A-Jeffrey Antinoro
A-Chandler Burns
A-Timothy Byrd
A-Jordan Hunsaker
A-Brantley Wiggins

Kevin,

If the South Carolina ODP system were perfect, and able to identify the top 18 players per age group each year (and these players and their parents could afford it and would choose to participate), how many of these kids would receive athletic aid to play soccer in college?

Look at the rosters of our 20+ college programs. These college coaches aren't stupid, they are in a competitive situation and they are paid to succeed (win). We are a relatively small state with a limited soccer history. We are getting better each year but we are not yet producing tons of players of the calibre of some of our regional competition (GA, FL, TX, NC, VA). Therefore, these college coaches look elsewhere.

Realistically, we have 18 players on a U-18 ODP roster, what's the proper/average distribution for the college level that they should play at? How many are D1, D2 & D3? If they are D3, where are they going? We don't have any D3 schools in SC. It would cost a fortune for a South Carolina kid to play at a D3 school unless he/she has at least 1400 SATs and is in the Top 2% of their class.

Hurst66 -- I understand your point, but you cannot simply judge D1, D2, and D3 as true "levels".

Using the college men's programs in S.C. alone, USC-Upstate is every bit as quality as several of the D1 programs. D2 schools like Presbyterian historically have been on par with some of the D1 programs as well. (On another note, that's probably partly why both schools are in the process of getting D1 status).

Of course there are no D3 schools in S.C. and out-of-state options are costly.

I still argue that we have 4-5 legitimate D1 caliber players a year that we are producing and another 15-20 that can be role players at the D1 level on a 24-man roster.

That still does not tackle the issue of what is best for developing national and international level players however.

Now my opinion ... Everything that follows has a caveat.... That all involved have the development of the player as the most important issue to help them achieve their best.

1- College coaches will seldom attend HS games to evaluate players. The most obvious exception is the Palmetto cup where the field and quality is such that allows the LOCAL schools to recruit.
2- The only time a college coach will attend a HS game is to physically see a player they already have interest on based on club/ODP.
3-The ODP process in SC (and very likely elsewhere) is broken. I will expand further below.
4- Club performance and level of play will attract college coaches at certain locations. These will be tournaments such as Score at the shore, Raleigh Shootout, Disney Showcase, Jefferson Cup, Dallas cup, etc. and most state cup games.

Here is the problem...

SC plays its club season during College season. Therefore coaches cannot attend ragular season games. HS level is not the same as club (except for a few programs)Therefore it does not indicate competitiveness.

If Johnny/Sally is a real good player but plays in a mediocre to low team, you are virtually guaranteed not to be seen or heard off as you will not be able to attend any of the high level tourneys and most likely will not be at state cup.

So the team you play on is important.

The team you play on will be good if the coach is a good coach and attracts/developes the better players.

Therefore the coach is important.

And the team will be invited (make no mistake on the word invited) to play in the high level tourneys only if the coach has connections or the Club has recognition.

Therefore the club you play in is somewhat important.

So what we know

1-HS games are not where you will be “FOUND”. Unless by Local D2 school, maybe.

2-You should get into the best team with a good coach. The club it belongs to is somewhat secondary.

3-During HS season your school should attend a quality soccer tournament, for a final look.

4-BUT nothing should take away from having to market yourself aggressively… You must make it a point to be on the radar screen. PLUS grades, grades, grades. If you have a 1.0 it won't matter to colleges if you are Pele. On the other hand you should have an agent and be playing MLS/Europe instead.

This brings us to the next point – Camps & ODP

Camps are great for recruiting opportunities, but you must get into the right camp in the right session… for example the senior elite camps at Clemson, Furman and USC. Here you will have the opportunity to be showcased to many college coaches (not just that school) in an individual level… both a good thing and a bad thing. Key question do you need to go every year? Probably not, the key year is summer to summer of your Junior year (Girls may extend into senior year). If by this time you are not somewhat known, you probably never will.

ODP – as far as I am concerned ODP is broken. Here in SC and elsewhere, although the size of the participating population will impact the program. In my opinion I would like it better if instead of tryouts, players were invited to participate in the program (US CLUB SOCCER SUPER Y)… How do you do this?

1-The clubs should have a vested interest in the program; to date not many clubs do (think pro club vs national team issues – injuries, etc.). How do you have the club buy in? The coaches in an age group have to select the best 3 players for the opposing team after every game. The youth coaches know who these players are. A coordinator for the age group is selected to compile and discuss with the coaches the selection, for example Finotti is selected to coordinate the U15 boys.
2-As the season progresses, a list is generated from which an invitation will be extended to come to camp. There would only be a cost for registration, the additional fees should be from sponsorship opportunities.
3-SCYSA should centralize training, with the logical location being Columbia as the state central location. This requires fields or an arrangement with a local club.
4-The team is assigned the coordinating coach and a College coach for all training.

Now in a perfect world this would work, however there should be some rules in place that clearly define recruiting do’s and do not’s that affect the coaches from the clubs.

There is basically no way to eliminate the political perception of the program for one simple reason. Whether it is try-outs or invitation the fact is, it is someone’s opinion -similar to judging high dives or ice skating at the Olympics – not everyone will agree. But what everyone will agree on is that the selection process was done over a period of time in which Johnny/Sally had ample time to show his/hers stuff.

The cost is minimal and it would very likely identify the top players.

Lastly there should be showcase programs were teams come together and play each other in front of a large number of college coaches (similar to the Fayetteville friendlies).

The cost should be field usage and referees nothing else.

futbol,

Very good analysis of the college recruiting process. Also enjoyed your thoughts on improving ODP.

Question - US Club Soccer / Super Y.

Let's say I have a son who is a good player, but plays on an average to below average club team. He likes the team. The coach does a very good job in training/tactics but the player pool has never expanded because the kids & parents are loyal and there has been very little turnover. Thus the team has never moved up to the premier ranks.

Can this boy get additional exposure by hooking up with a Super Y team in the summer? What are the restrictions? Can players be assembled from a number of SCYSA teams and a team formed for Super Y?

futbol, thanks for the breakdown. One of the best things I've read on here.

Hurst... The answer is they are mutually exclusive. SCYSA and SUPER Y belong to two different organizations. Since neither has jurisdiction over the players going elsewhere you can play SCYSA and Super Y.

The answers to your questions - Yes, None and Yes

Note that SUPER Y is trying to become a year round program.

Super Y you still need to the marketing and the grades, plus getting into top tourneys like Score at the Shore or the nationals and regionals helps.

The Battery had started a Super-Y team in the early part of this decade, but no longer do so. I wonder why? What happened. It seemed to draw the best players from the Lowcountry and several from the mid-state as well.

You may be interested to hear Bruce Arena and Claudio Reyna discuss the very topic of this thread:

http://podcast.ussoccer.com/June23_Press_Conference.mp3

>>Let's face it, I'm having a hard time understanding why U11 players would travel 1-1/2 hours to play soccer for a team that could similarly be played 10-15 minutes from home. At $2.80 a gallon for gas, I just don't know where you draw the line. More power to them, but is the "product" truly superior and if so, how?<<

Several things:

• At $2.80 a gallon for gas [...] I'm "only" paying $2.59 for gas!
• Is the "product" (or "service") truly superior? On the girls side, at least to date, there are few viable alternatives in South Carolina. Last year the ODP region pool, selected by non-club and for the most part non-SC college coaches, was eight of nine from one club. And this one club has been noted as not having eenough participation in SC ODP! To use another criteria, look at the girls Gatorade player of the year for the last 6 years -- from memory, all but one came from one club [or a forerunner of that one club.] The product/service in my experience is vastly different on the girls side.
• On the boys side, it seems that South Carolina has a wider variety of clubs offering at least comparable products/services, as measured by either the ODP region pool selections or as measured by state challenge cup championships. As futbol(soccer) noted, it certainly seems somewhat easier to find a state-level competitive local team [ignoring the club] on the boys side than the girls side. Region-level? That's tough to find on either the boys side or the girls side; but there have been more instances in the last 5-6 years of regionally competitive boys teams from a variety of clubs than there has been on the girls side.
• [...] is the "product" truly superior and if so, how? Regarding "how?", again, on the girls side, I've seen tremendous differences in "how." The most obvious "how's" are a superior player pool, an open training environment, the number of training sessions available, and the quality of those training sessions. The superior player pool simply means that some clubs consistently have better players to challenge each other. An open training environment simply means that players are both allowed and encouraged to train with any team they want, regardless of their team or even club affiliation. This again draws superior players to challenge each other. The number of training sessions available is a function of both the open training environment and the number of training sessions per team. I've seen many clubs with challenge teams expect that two practices a week, with optional speed training, is enough. It's not. Finally, with regard to the quality of the training sessions, a focus on possession variations, short-sided game variations, and full-sided scrimmages with a decreased emphasis on standing in line drills seems to mark a significant difference in the product/service.

The equation for United States soccer is simple

skill with a ball + money = getting to the next level. Sometimes skill with a ball can be left out leaving: money = getting to the next level.

Everywhere but the U.S.: skill with a ball = getting to the next level.

Now to get to the professional level in the US a person would have to

Be good + play HS or Club + Get Recruited by a bigtime school + actually play there + make a list of MLS prospects + Either get drafted into the MLS or USL or tryout and hopefully make the squad

A ton of places for interruptions or where a person may fall through the proverbial cracks. Hey, if you achieve this you might get paid 30 grand a year plus endorsements. Thanks I'll stick to my path as a public educator or wal-mart greeter. Unless your really good and then you get paid in the 70 grand range. WOWIE.

In other countries just being good at a young age and working your way through a club program can many times send you on your way to a multi-million dollar contract.

Let's face it, DC United isn't going to check out a local Y game to put 13 yr old Johnny who's dominating the opposition in a soccer-rich environment where he is taken care of, schooled, and looked after like they do in Italy, England, etc. Rather, you have to go the backwards route and pay to play instead of being paid TO play. What happens is that soccer becomes an elitest sport. However, I find it ironic that while the affluent individuals thrive in soccer the US federation and soccer itself have little money or prestige. Compare the wages of the Big3 to MLS players. What you get is those being served being bigger than the service.

Let's also face something else. The best athletes in America aren't playing soccer. They probably won't ever. They're playing the big 3. American's cherish a few fundamental themes that soccer lacks for instance being physically bigger than others (how much can you bench? squat?) as well as being tougher than the opposition (I bet big 3 fans struggle with all the diving and rolling around on the ground for 3 minutes after you got your toe stepped on and I can't blame them. Soccer players in a lot of cases are rightfully labeled as pansies.).

Finally, I think that a lot of blame is to be put on coaches who (in HS especially) fail to do their job for their kids. Perhaps they don't know their job as a soccer coach and how it's different from being a big 3 coach. Because of budgets/scholarship alotments/ncaa regulations it is sometimes impossible for a kid to get looked at by a college coach and unfortunately a lot of talent simply moves on, even if they would have cherished an oppurtunity to just play some more soccer somewhere. Why do you think BC has so many players go on the the next level? Probably because Kevin Heise knows that it requires work and you can't simply just show up and coach like at a good big 3 program. The problem is, that not every coach understands or cares about this process. HS and college coaches have to work together to insure that the kids who are deserving get a chance to fulfill their dreams which ultimately will boost the national level of talent.

Even HS seniors are "kids" who don't know the process of getting to the next level. Parents who never played the game more than likely don't realize how much that process differs from the big 3. Finally, sadly enough coaches, more often than not, aren't aware of this either leaving no one representing the kids.

Shut... I assume by the big 3 you mean Football, baseball and basketball. I will sound like a heretic.... there is nothing slower than baseball exceot maybe golf, so action wise there is no comparison.
Football is a coaches game... in the old days you went out there and called your plays, nowdays you have to be told what to do ...just execute and everything will be OK. Great action but very little creativity.
Basketball is the closest thing... but to me basketball is 5 minutes long, start at 100 and play 5 minutes and you have the same result.

So the big 3 generate lots of money... the 2 Bs by playing a million games in a season. Football only has 16 games for the obvious physical toll.

The problem with your statement best athletes do not play soccer. Lets first state that as athletes go soccer players are usually better conditioned due to the game, secondly you have to compare apples to apples... The US is the size of Europe, you cannot use the same logic for building players that is used there, especially when the infrastructure is almost non-existant. you basically have to compare a continent to the US. Therefore you cannot say that there aren't enough athletes to select 23 to play at the world cup out 300 million.
The problem (or differenc) is choice. There are far too many choices in the US, the same cannot be said elsewhere. So in order to develop the players a whole new approach must be used, using rejects from Europe/SA/Mexico to run the programs is not going to work because their experience is not the US reality. Secondly your point....money.... the US has it, a service is provided therefore a fee is paid. But what is the ROI?.... nothing....unless you use school or profesional leagues as the enticement.

So you want to fix soccer? start by making 18 scholarships available at schools instead of the missly 9.9 for men or 12 (?) for women.

Where to get it from? Football has 60 plus scholarships on an individual basis. In any game no more than 40 play (to be generous) why you need so many? And yes I heard the stories of who pays for what....see Chico's analysis.

But here is the crux of the matter, you have to rob Peter to pay Paul, and Peter is none too happy. So lets drop the charade, admit that college football and basketball are indeed profesional, and start comparing apples to apples. Soccer will be a slow growth market in the US, one which will eventually grow in size to challenge the status quo, but it will not happen anytime soon.

So I will continue to push the sport I love, work within the available avenues and try to provide ideas (hopefully good ones) on how to make it better.

We can complain all day long but if we do not get off our butts, nothing will change and nothing will get better....except of course for our complaining.

First of all I hate baseball just as much as the next person. However, a lot of people don't. Apparently it's so competitive that people abuse steroids to get ahead of the competition. So that pretty much takes care of your baseball comment. Basketball is probablly one of the best aerobic sports around (next to soccer). I don't know if you've ever played it but it can be pretty exhausting. Sprinting up and down a court, stopping and starting again. It takes a lot out of you which is why bball players (with some exceptions) are very skinny. They work out a ton but because of their height and the physical exertion they fail to put on the bulk like a football player would. As for football. I enjoy football because I enjoy the strategy involved. It's an explosive game that requires thought, speed, and physical strength. I wish more football bound athletes would play soccer. Heck I wish more basketball bound athletes would play soccer.

ok, so your next point. If our best athletes play soccer then why did we take a bunch of 5ft 150 lbs. nothings to europe (minus gooch and ching, ching never played anyways). Check the stats. We had 3 or 4 guys under 150 lbs. How can you win a ball at that height/weight? In Europe we were hit in the mouth by 6 ft 7 Jan Koller in the first 4 minutes that we were on the field. Then we could never get by that back line of trees the czechs have. Then it was a spiral downward and let's face it we had a ton of luck in 02. We were extremely fortunate to make it that far. If our best athletes play soccer then why are they not being seen in the top leagues around the world? Who do we have playing in Serie A or SPL? I realize that Bobby Convey plays at Reading FC a 2nd division English league, Brian Mcbride and Reyna play in the EPL but I think we saw how awesome they were. Do you think this is some conspiracy that other leagues around the country aren't trying to tap the US athlete for prospects? There aren't any.

Obviously the US has money but soccer itself does not. It's an olympic sport and until about 10 yrs ago it wasn't even a mainstream sport. Some would argue it isn't now. Listen to all the sports talk shows and everything else. They HATE soccer. HATE IT. Everything about soccer is negative to them. Do you think that doesn't have an affect on people? Do you think they're ill-informed?

You're not taking football scholarships, sorry. Football generates so much money. Go to a USC game if you don't think so. 100,000 people + coming to Columbia for a home game can't be wrong. How many people frequent soccer games at USC? Do You? You're not robbing peter to pay paul. You'd ultimately be robbing the university of their money. If you want more scholarships, and I think at least in principle you and Chico are right, you need to look elsewhere. Perhaps women's rowing doesn't need 15 full scholarships? Look that up if you think it's a joke.

The problem is like I said before your "avenues" available have a ton of wreckage on them. You have to clear the wreckage making soccer affordable for that premium athlete who probably can't afford it but he sure can afford to go to his local bball hang out and shoot hoops all day. He sure can play football for his hs team which will provide him with all the equiptment for free. From there he can do anything. He can go to the next level. In soccer? No. You have to pay 20923804923492347 dollars to play club. You have to be on a good hs team and then you have to present yourself to a coach who happens to be where you are. If it was easier to make it to the next level perhaps we'd get a Dwayne Wade in soccer or a Lebron James. Perhaps we'd see a T.O. or a Steve Smith.

I think that it is a given that the road to 'success' in soccer will run through college play in this country for a long time to come. That is the model that we are used to here, and I think doing anything counter to that will meet too much resistance. If you accept this, then the idea of more scholarships makes perfect sense.

I am the granddaddy in this discussion. I played in the first organized youth soccer game in SC in 1972 and have been involved continously in youth soccer since that time. In 1972 there were more working class families involved in youth soccer than today. Youth soccer has become a sport of the elite and there is no problem with that. Until we create a venue for the "every man" to play we will not be able to compete at the level that we all want.

Club soccer is a great experience. As one of the first coaches in this state that was paid to coach a team I have no problem with acknowledging that people should be paid for the work that they do. Unfortunately, without corporate sponsorship we have allowed well heel parents to dictate who plays on our best teams. Good players without money need not apply.

The ethnic leagues may be the future. More and more high schools will be forced to look to those leagues to find their next prospects. These leagues provide quality affordable play without the expense of travel and other ancillary expenses.

Colleges coaches who used to look exclusively at club teams are recognizing that the high schools now have experienced coaches that we did not have a decade ago. As a result more and more college coaches are taking a hard look at quality high school programs.

As I stated in a reply in a related topic, things can be changed to better development for the top players in South Carolina. There's not enough top players to be segmented, however, DOCs will have to swallow their "pride pill" and "self-building State Cup titles" and allow top players to have what's best, whether they provide it or not.

Regardless of how much a CESA, or top club, might think they "have it all," there are still alot of players from distances away they don't have that need the top environment, consistently, with other top players. Remember, adding a top player and telling him/her to make the long trip once a week or every two weeks is not development.

An idea is to have 1) a committee of top soccer coaches (club, college) to 2) appoint a full-time DOC and then 3) serve as his technical group and work closely in making all soccer/development decisions like league formation, training environments/curriculum and, of course ODP restructuring.

In addition, I believe the ODP pools, in this state, should be year round teams that play under a club (or maybe a SCYSA-formed Columbia based club just for that matter) and play Premier League and/or US Club. Does that mean seperating and catering to the elite? YES. Decisions for the majority doesn't develop the minority, the best! You can still have SCYSA leagues for the other clubs/teams and they'll only play one another in State Cup. If the elite teams win, then it should. If the elite teams don't win, then things are advancing, maybe, for an outside group and a player or two could be identified. But this way, the best players are guaranteed to play and train together with top coaches.

The most important thing is the top players train, at least, 3 times a week in Columbia (or a central location)so they actually train and move around on weekends when there's not matches. With so few top, top players, they need to be in the same environment constantly.

I know this all seems drastic and different, and there's probably a better chance of seeing SCYSA brass (like Mary Bynum) juggling 3 times, but it's needed. Get rid of administrators making soccer decisions and allow that to the best soccer people. South Carolina needs thorough and wholesale change!

I've added a few more (in all CAPS) to help you...

1990 ODP STATE TEAM
Crayton Benson, NORTHWESTERN
Patrick Cates, Dutch Fork
Zackary Clark, NORTHWESTERN
Michael Czulinski, Ridge View
Andrew Denn
Michael Essman
Gradey Grumman
Rudiger Hellberger
Luke Hogan, Wando
George Khoury, Bishop England
Ralph Lundy, Wando
William Lynch, Irmo
Enzo Martinez, Northwestern
Erik Mozzo
Kevin Nolan
Robert Owens
Aaron Peter, Riverside
David Slaughter, Chapin
A-Gustavo Delgado, Lexington
A-Graham Howard, Lexington
A-David Moore
A-Tyler Vukoder, Fort Mill

1991 ODP STATE TEAM
Stephen Arneson
Andrew Barbieri, Fort Mill
Nash Brace
Henry Callis
Jason Chapman
Andrew Gorospe, SOUTH POINTE
Alexis Martinez, Northwestern
Kyle McEwan, Irmo
Benjamin Montry
Byron Quinatoa, Dreher
Daniel Riley
Brendan Shumberger
Tyler Staub
Joseph Sweet, Pinewood Prep
Brandon Tyner, Bishop England
Michael Valencia, MAULDIN
Thomas Valikonis
Adam Wolf
A-Patrick Adkins
A-Jeffrey Antinoro, Rock Hill
A-Chandler Burns
A-Timothy Byrd
A-Jordan Hunsaker, Olympic (Charlotte, NC)
A-Brantley Wiggins