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Fenomeno, your ignorance is quite staggering!! I need a couple of Carlsbergs just to readjust after reading your post.
Who is Giggs? He plays for Manchester United.
Who is ManU?? they are the biggest club on the planet.
Who is Wales?? IT is a country my friend, look at a map.
Who is Arsenal?? They are one of the best teams in Europe and incidentally when United beat them in 1999 in the FA Cup they had 4 members of the France team that won the World Cup the year before!!! By the way, their is a team called Arsenal in the top ten of the Argentinian League right now, although I'm sure you know that right???
Chelsea is making differences???
Oh yeah, the Chelsea that Liverpool beat last night, That Chelsea??
Without South Americans European football would not have diving, spitting and dirty tackles from behind, Thanks a lot for that.

And by the way, Brazil is not hispanic, the people their are of Portugese ancestry, which happens to be a European country.
Maradonna also owns the record for the most ephedrine consumed during a World Cup Tournament and I believe he is now the fattest ex-player in the world!!

Ignorant? Is that the best you can do? You call somebody ignorant because he knows more than you do...

Giggs? decent player from ManU, nothing big.

ManU? Richest team in the world... won the Champions league a once or a few times.

Arsenal? Did they ever won anything but the Premier League? Sorry but I just can't remember, when it comes to talking "the best of the best" Arsenal is missing somewhere!

Wales? I though their biggest sport was rugby? Do they have soccer team?

George Best? Is he from England? If I wouldn't come to the US I would never hear about that dude...

Brazil is not a hispanic country... I though I said South American... that's what the real deal is, that's where soccer is a passion, and where the best soccer players come from.

Here is a list where George Best would never fit it;

Maradona (Ar)
Pele (Bra)
Rivelino(Bra)
Tostao (Bra)
Garrincha (Bra)
Romario (Bra)
Rivaldo (Bra)
Batistuta (Ar)
Kempes (Ar)
Di Stefano (Ar)
Hugo Sanchez (Mex)
Zamorano (Chi)
Pekerman (Ar)
Jorge Gonzales (ES)
Enzo Franchescoli (Ur)
Roberto Carlos (Bra)

Maradona "God of Futbol"
Pele "King of Futbol"
Franchescoli "Prince of futbol"
Gonzales "The Magic"

Just a few names of people that made fubol THE BEST SPORT IN THE WORLD... PEOPLE THAT PACK STADIUMS OF 160,000 PEOPLE...

Europeans?

Puskas, Platini, Beckenbauer, Van Basten, Roberto Baggio, Dino Sof, Paolo Rossi, Giussepe Meazza, Franco Baressi, Paolo Maldini.

The only people from England I ever hear of was; David Platt, Sheringan, Shearer, Owen, and Beckam..

I don't think any of them ever won anything but a Premier Championship... did George Best won a world cup? Sorry my ignorance...

Maradona was always hurt, Ronaldo is always hurt? That is the only way EUROPEANS CAN STOP THEM...

Sorry man, you have give up. England invented soccer, but South Americans took it to a different level...

That's futbol man, the real deal.

It was nice sharing some knowledge with you body, I hope next time you better prepared.

I don't want you sharing anything w/ my "body"

For your info, South America has won 9 World Cups and Europe 8. In the Toyota Inter-Continental Cup which brings together the UEFA Champions League Winners with the winners of the equivalent Cup in South America, European teams have won it 12 times and South American 12 times. Seems that the levels are about the same.There are great players on both continents but South America is not the best in the world!
I tried to find out what year Mexico won it and I'll be darned if I can find it!!!!!!!!!!!!

we are not talking about individual countries here "Bazza", we are talking about a whole entire soccer cultures. And Fenomeno, eventhough I agree with you on most of the facts, i would have to say that you left an English player out of the list, that is Sir Bobby Charlton, who won the World cup in England.
And that is right, what woul Europe be with out the Latin Flare??

wan to take a guess??

well, NOTHING, and they know it, that is why every year there are disputes between the BIGGEST European clubs to sign all these player from South America. South American players are the most expenssive in the world(and Figo and Zidane), that is why right now Chelse is offering $100,000,000 euros (enough zeros??)to Inter Milan for Adriano (who by the way is a Latin Player). "Just some facts"

SORRY FOR THE LITTLE "TYPO"!!!

I love this topic.

The last continental cups I believe;

Boca Jrs. beats Madrid
Boca Jrs. beats Milan

Europeans clubs are big becasue of their South American players...

Madrid: Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, Solari, Samuel.

Barcelona: Ronaldinho, Marquez (Mexico), Mezzy, Lopez.

Milan: Kaka, Cafu, Crespo, Dida, Serginho.

Juventus: Olivera, Zalayeta, Montero, Trezeguet, Emerson.

ManU: Heinze, that's probably why they almost never win anything but the Premiere.

I can list so many players...

Europe is like that;

When it comes to nationals; Italy and Germany. Sometimes France and England come out strong, Holland too, Spain is always decent.

Clubs;

1.Madrid
2.Milan
3.Juventus
4.Barcelona
5.ManU
6.Bayer
7.Borusia
8.Maybe Arsenal or Liverpool

As you can see England is just the "money maker" other than, they never bring anything big to the "futbol" community.

I'm not Mexican, but there is nothing wrong with being from Mexico, it just a country where Natives where treated different... Mexico always wins the Concacaf Championship. They won the American Cup once going through all those South American contries including Brazil and Argentina.

You have any idea who Hugo Sanchez was? You know who Rafael Marquez is?

Mexican clubs are only behin Argentinians and Brasilians, Mexicans clubs pack stadiums and their soccer players get paid just as much as many Europeans...

I though Pumas defeated DC United 5-0 de other day in the Concacaf Champions League. What do you think about that?

I don't care if you're an American or from England, you either have to respect or recognize that you don't have enough arguments to keep up with this conversation. Sorry man, next time.

By the way, English is my second language, I like the correction of the language, it your capacity of intelectual "stradegies" when it comes to debating. If it was in Spanish all you would would be just read, learn, and be quite.

Again, thanks for the "hospitality" and for the respect you show. I can tell the level of education you have.

Have a good one, and next time you challenge a Latino, Mexican, Hispanic, in futbol, make sure you know a lot...

Later

I agree with you Fenomeno mexicos clubs are just as good as any other clubs around the world! Hugo Sanchez was a great player and as of my knowledge he is the only player from north america to make it on real madrid! And Rafael Marquez is another player Madrid is looking at! So that makes two players ever to make it on the dream team! (Both from mexico)!!!!

Hate to tell you this but on the list of Latin players that you say make Juventus so great, you listed Trezeguet. He is FRENCH!!!!!!!!!!! Plays for the french national team.
However, bottom line is, you think South American football is best, I think European is best. There are good players and clubs on both continents and many great players have been left out in this discussion: Daniel Passarella, Jorge Valdano, Claudio Caneja form South America and Luigi Riva, Gianni Rivera, Bobby Moore from Europe. The longer you think about it, the more names come to mind. It's an argument that can never be resolved definitively.
Lets just agree to enjoy watching them battle it out on the field. Good luck to Liverpool in the Champions League and roll on Germany 2006, for which, I am happy to say, I have tickets!!!

Fenomeno,

Whats the big fascination with Madrid. They have not won a champions league or a domestic title for quite a while. 2001-champions league. 2002-Domestic league. If you are talking historically, then it is different. However they are right now, NOT the best club team in the world. In my opinion AC Milan can hold that honor for conisitently being near the top in there domestic league and nearly always making the latter stages of European competitions.

You said that you would never of heard of George Best for you not being in America. Well obviously you havent seen him play either. He was a genius.

I do respect South American and Mexican soccer. Some of the greatest players to have played the game are from there. However it is importnat to know that the European club system helped mould these players into the greats they are today. Kaka, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho would not be where they are today if they hadnt spent time in europe learning tactical and discipline aspects that have rounded there "rough edges" into polished diamonds. The same will happen with Diego (porto) and Robinho when he finally moves to Madrid. Its no surprise that Tevez's move to Corinthians has not been a resounding success.


Seeing as you have thrown out opinions about who were and are the greatest players. I will share mine (in no particular order):

Top forwards in The world:

Schevchenko (Ukraine & AC Milan)
Ronaldo (Brasil & Real Madrid)
Adriano (Brasil & Inter)
Henry (France & Arsenal)
Rooney (England & Man Utd
Ronaldinho (Brasil & Barcelona)
Etoo (Cameroon & Barcelona)
Van Nistelrooy (Holland & Man Utd)
Trezeguet (France & Juventus)
Tevez (Argentina & Corinthians)
Vieri (Italy & Inter)
Cassano (Italy & Roma)
Robinho (Brasil & Santos)

Top Midfielders in the World:

Lampard (England & Chelsea)
Gerrard (England & Chelsea)
Robben (Holland & Chelsea)
Ronaldo (Portugal & Man Utd)
Deco (Portugal & Barcelona)
Totti (Italy & Roma)
Kaka (Brasil & AC Milan)
Davids (Holland & Inter)
Aimar (Argentina & Valencia)
Viera (France & Arsenal)
Reyes (Spain & Arsenal)
Pires (France & Arsenal)
Beckham (England & Real Madrid)
Ballack (Germany & Bayern)
Emerson (Brasil & Juventus)
Nedved (Czech Rep & Juventus)
Gattuso (Italy & Milan)
Diego (Brasil & Porto)

Top Defenders in the World:

Ferdinand (England & Man Utd)
Nesta (Italy & AC Milan)
Cannavaro (Italy & Juventus)
Stam (Holland & AC Milan)
Terry (England & Chelsea)
Campbell (England & Arsenal)
Cole (England & Arsenal)
Samuel (Argentina & Real Madrid)
Ayala (Argentina & Valencia)
Cafu (Brasil & AC Milan)
Marquez (Mexico & Barcelona)
Carlos (Brasil & Real Madrid)
Zambrotta (Italy & Juventus)
Thuram (France & Juventus)
Puyol (Spain & Barcelona)

Obviously im sure i've left some out.

Top 5 players ever (in order)
1. Pele
2. Garrincha
3. George Best
4. Johan Cruyff
5. Beckenbauer


Note that nowhere in this post have i told you your opinions on players are wrong, i respect them, however do not belittle European nations or players just because they do not conform (in your opinion) to the "futbol" ethic.