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#70917 07/25/06 04:14 PM
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[Preface: With all of this discussion concerning South Carolina clubs and mentioning the Dallas Texans, I thought folks might be interested in this.]

[Dallas Morning News Article Link]

Reviled by rivals, Hassan Nazari changed the rules in youth soccer

By BARRY HORN / The Dallas Morning News
Seventh in a series exploring the impact of youth sports.

Not everyone who competes against Hassan Nazari and his teams refers to the coaching director of the Dallas Texans soccer club as "The Satan of Soccer."

Some who really don't like him prefer "Hassan bin Laden."

It can be a tough crowd inside the world of select youth soccer, where rival clubs compete for children's skills, their parents' money and the rewards reaped from recruiting the proper combination of dollars and soccer sense."Cutthroat," is how Nazari rival Kevin Smith, coaching director of the Solar Soccer Club, describes the competitive youth soccer environment.

And Nazari is perceived as the bloodthirstiest of all.

"We all want to win," Smith says. "That's the name of the game. But Hassan wants to kick everyone's ass any way he can, and we all want to really kick his.

"That's just the way it is."

That's the way it is in a world where boys and girls as young as 11 who don't measure up to a coach's expectations can be erased from a roster at season's end.

That's the way it is in a world where children sign contracts binding them to teams because coaches can't be trusted not to recruit them away in midseason.

That's the way it is in a world where teams that don't win enough games are summarily exiled to a lower league.

That's the way it is in a world that can cost parents thousands of dollars a year, and short-term return on the investment frequently is measured in an ability to win games.

That's the way it is in a world where players scratch for college scholarships and one in 50 may graduate into at least a partial reward.

That's the world where Hassan Nazari has found his nirvana.

Perhaps that is why Nazari, a native of Iran who played in the 1978 World Cup, is not particularly wounded by any slurs.

He flinches only slightly when they come up in conversation.

Rather, he says with a touch of pride, the name-calling is proof positive that the soccer club he envisioned, founded and built to his own specifications has arrived.

Nazari wanted to build a supersized club with a huge feeder system in the mold of successful European clubs.

Not yet 10 years old, Nazari's Texans have mushroomed into the largest and arguably the most successful soccer club in North Texas, leaving older, more established clubs in their wake.

The North Texas State Soccer Association recognizes 30 clubs that field at least six competitive teams.

There are an additional 122 clubs that field five or fewer teams. And still, better than one of every 10 select players in North Texas plays for the Texans, who boast 68 age-specific competitive boys and girls teams based in Dallas, Arlington and Lewisville.

In May, the Texans won an unprecedented eight Texas State Cup age-group championships.

Such success has earned the Texans a coveted sponsorship from the Nike empire. Only 19 other youth soccer clubs nationwide are recipients of such benevolence from the giant sporting goods company.

"The rivalries in youth soccer are big. The jealousies are bigger. The place the Texans are in used to be somebody else's place," Nazari says.

"We came in, and we took it."

Took it by instilling a win-at-all-costs philosophy that leaves little room for players to develop their long-term skills, his rivals say.


Huy Nguyen / DMN
In less than a decade, Hassan Nazari has built his Dallas Texans into a soccer power – while alienating many area coaches.

Took it by ignoring rules. Took it by ruthlessly recruiting, padding teams with topnotch players who might get more playing time and chances to develop at other clubs.

Or, as his legion of supporters maintain, took it with a foreign but sensible philosophy of what a U.S.-based club should be. Took it because of Nazari's keen eye for talent. Took it with sweat and hard work.

Took it because Nazari was selling a better product, and parents and their children were buying.

"I'd heard rumors about Hassan for a long time, but I never paid attention until after he started coming after my players," says Scott Kerlin, coaching director of the Tarrant County-based American Eagles.

"I know what he did to me."

Kerlin and Nazari played professional soccer together for a brief season in the mid 1980s on the Dallas Americans, another in the progression of ill-fated teams that failed to make a go of it locally, but whose alumni rooted themselves in the community and helped build the world of select soccer.

The former teammates no longer speak to each other.

Just another envious competitor, Nazari says.

Besides, Nazari says, he has all the friends he needs within what he refers to as "the Texans organization." That includes the parents of 1,100 players ages 11 through 19, a score of loyal coaches and an army of devout volunteers.

"I've liked Hassan from the day I met him," says Kenny Medina, who is in charge of all of the Texans' girls teams. "He is a straight shooter, and you always know where you stand. He is not the most diplomatic person because he doesn't try to be."

As when Nazari talks about his friends working at rival clubs.

"Outside of the Texans organization," Nazari declares, "my enemy's enemy is my friend."

Asked to name a competitor whom he could identify as a friend, Nazari shrugs.

Escape through soccer

Hassan Nazari, 47, was born in the city of Abadan in southwest Iran. His father was involved in the petroleum business.

Nazari was 3 when his mother died. Two years later, his father died. Raised by an older sister, Hassan found escape from his recurrent sadness on the soccer fields.

Over the years, he developed into a gifted sweeper on a local youth team. He loved playing the position that is the last line of defense in front of the goalkeeper.


Courtesy photo
Nazari (right) played sweeper for his native Iran in the 1978 World Cup. He's shown before a qualifying game vs. Kuwait.

"You have to be extremely smart to play the position," he says. "You have to know all the angles and how to use them."

At 16, Nazari joined the Iranian national team. He played on the Iranian team at the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal and the 1978 World Cup in Argentina. Nazari, a national hero, might never have left his homeland if not for the 1979 revolution.

Unsure of soccer's place in the new Islamic Republic, Nazari fled to train with a club in Spain. He ultimately played soccer for five years in the United Arab Emirates and two years in Saudi Arabia.

In 1985, his travels took him to Dallas to visit a brother. Not long after, he signed on to play with the Dallas Americans in the four-team United Soccer League. The season started in mid-May and ended abruptly when the league suspended play five weeks later.

Nazari, however, made a fateful connection on the Americans. Teammate Charlie Kadupski doubled as coaching director of the Storm Soccer Club. He asked Nazari to work with some of his teams. Nazari leaped at the chance.

"I didn't need the money," Nazari says. "I had been a professional soccer player for a long time. I wanted to help teach this great game to young players."

Nazari coached with the Storm for eight years, developing some of the club's top teams. But he wanted more. He wanted to run his own club based on what he had seen in his soccer-playing travels throughout Europe and South America.

"Clubs here were not really clubs," Nazari says. "They were individual teams sharing the same name. The under-11 teams had no idea what the under-15 teams were doing. The coaches all had different philosophies. They went to different tournaments

"I wanted to start something closer to what the great European clubs like AC Milan and Ajax were doing. I wanted continuity, a philosophy. I wanted accountability. I wanted to stand out. I wanted to compete nationally. I wanted to be known internationally. I wanted to be the best from top to bottom.

"I had a vision."

And so he began traveling the country to study successful high-profile teams. He went to San Diego to look at the Nomads, to Tampa to watch the Chargers and to St. Louis to pick the brains of the Busch, a club sponsored by Anheuser-Busch Inc.

And he made frequent trips to Houston to visit an old friend, Roy Rees, the Welsh-born coach of the U.S. national under-17 team and the coaching director of the Houston Texans.

Model organization

The Houston Texans for years had been regulars at tournaments in Dallas. Nazari marveled at their success.

Rees' Texans were born in 1986 out of what he calls "a couple of parent-driven teams with nothing in common." Rees changed that.

"There was no vertical alignment," Rees says. "They had different sponsors, attended different tournaments, had no connection other than their name.

"That's not how the rest of the world works, not how players are developed. I changed the philosophy."

Of course, Rees' status as a national team coach didn't hurt. Players flocked to his Texans from throughout Houston, as well as Austin, San Antonio and as far away as Mobile, Ala.


Huy Nguyen / DMN
Hassan Nazari says his club has inspired jealousy by surpassing more established rivals. Critics accuse of him breaking rules and ruthlessly recruiting players.

Nazari, with Rees' blessing, copied his Houston blueprint, borrowed his club's name, adapted a little and in January 1993 unveiled his Dallas Texans with plans to begin play that spring.

Rees was certain Nazari would be successful. If Nazari didn't have the magic of national team credentials to help lure players, Nazari had something almost as valuable.

"He can charm anybody just as he charmed me," Rees says.

"He is a salesman. He knows how to make small talk. He remembers names. He'll zero in on a player on another team and approach him after the game to tell him how well he played. He will go the extra yard. He can be a blatant recruiter. He has mastered the ability to recruit without violating any rules."

Rees, who now coaches in Southern California, doesn't talk to Nazari much anymore.

"He got what he wanted from me," Rees says. "There is really very little use I can be to him anymore."

Bitter departure

Nazari's departure from the Storm club was not amicable. As coach of some of that club's best players, he took them along with him to the Texans. That was expected, says Kadupski, still the Storm's coaching director.

"When you leave a job and go to a new one, it is best not to talk poorly about your former employer," Kadupski says. "He began to make insinuations. It was not good."

Nazari says he was simply advertising the virtues of his new club.

About the same time that Nazari was starting his club, the coaching director of the Dallas Hornets decided he no longer had the time to run his club.

Schellas Hyndman, tired of the administrative side of the club game, decided to devote himself exclusively to his job as soccer coach at SMU.

Many of Hyndman's players gravitated to Nazari and the Texans.

The Texans debuted with five boys teams in the spring of 1993. Nazari coached four of them.

"We'd been with Hassan at Storm and felt that if he was in charge of a club, he would make it competitive, he would make it the best," says Jeannie Bradford, whose son Eric had played one season for Nazari before following him to the Texans.

Today, Jeannie Bradford is a paid administrator on Nazari's staff.


Huy Nguyen / DMN
Diane Sullivan, whose son plays for the Texans, greets Nazari after a victory at Richland College. Nazari says he has all the friends he needs within the club he built.

The Bradfords' team, the '82 Texans, struggled in its first season, prompting Nazari to institute Sunday practices and skills training. Those are fairly typical these days but were relatively foreign a decade ago.

The following fall, those Texans finished second in the North Dallas Chamber of Commerce Soccer Association's Classic League – the top boys' league in the area.

They won the league championship in the spring of 1994 and in five subsequent springs.

"In youth soccer, like in soccer at all levels, success breeds success," says Hyndman, a Nazari admirer who until last year was a technical adviser to the Texans.

"That team helped establish Hassan as a winner."

Hyndman, who has recruited a steady stream of Texans to his nationally ranked college program, including Nazari's stepson Kellan Zindel, says most of the Nazari-bashing comes from envy.

"There are a lot of people in college soccer who don't like Jerry Yeagley, who has won five national championships," Hyndman says of the Indiana University coach. "And plenty who will tell you that Bruce Arena [the former Virginia and current U.S. World Cup coach] is egotistical and not mannered.

"But they are successful," Hyndman says. "Bruce won five NCAA championships, and his peers never voted him coach of the year. That tells you something."

Nazari coached another stepson in youth soccer. But Hyndman couldn't get him. Garrett Zindel went on to a stellar career at the Air Force Academy and is now an Air Force pilot stationed overseas.

"Who knows?" Nazari says. "Maybe he'll be the one to get Osama bin Laden."

'The right idea'

Dave Simeone is the national staff coach with the U.S. Women's National Team program. He was director of coaching from 1993 to 1999 for the North Texas State Soccer Association, the governing body that oversees 170,000 registered players.

Simeone says there have been complaints about coaches as long as he can remember. Usually, he says, the more successful the coach, the louder the complaints, the ruder the name-calling. Nazari is only the most recent target.

Once upon a time, Horst Bertyl, coaching director of the Dallas Comets, was the object of dissatisfaction, Simeone says. Bertyl was among the first club coaches to be paid for his services.


Courtesy photo
In 1977, an Iranian magazine recognized Nazari as the nation's No. 2 soccer player. He later played in Dallas – for five weeks.

"He was the devil incarnate for a while," Simeone says. "And then everyone was paying their coaches.

"That's how it will be with Hassan. His was the right idea. Bigger is the way clubs will be going. They are copying his model whether they want to admit it or not. Until everyone catches up, he is the devil."

Says Bertyl, "Hassan was aggressive in going after players he wanted. It was a surprise to most clubs. There were rules he pretty much ignored. You know how parents are: His teams were winning, parents flocked to him."

What makes Nazari unique, Simeone says, is that he founded his club and structured it so that he makes the ultimate decisions.

"All the other coaches operate in a system where they have to answer to boards and to parents," Simeone says. "With the Texans, Hassan is the system. Anyone who doesn't like it can go elsewhere.

"Hassan is the master of his own fate."

Which is the way a club has to be run, Nazari says.

"We have a lot of volunteers with good hearts," Nazari says. "But soccer people have to make soccer decisions. It is a huge mistake some clubs make that because the parents pay the money, they know the game.

"Standing around watching your son or daughter play the game does not make a parent a soccer person, just as standing in an operating room doesn't make someone a surgeon.

"I don't go to our parents and tell them how to run their businesses," he says. "The decisions have to be soccer decisions, not politically correct decisions."

Keith Hodder, one of Nazari's coaches, joined the Texans three years ago. He had been the coaching director at the Dallas Comets and the Texas Comets.

"Those were good clubs, but they were not particularly well run," Hodder says. "There was a lot of infighting. Hassan doesn't allow that."

Questions of recruiting

On a dark, dreary day in early October, Hassan Nazari bounds into a Lewisville restaurant, not far from his Flower Mound home. Although it is raining heavily outside, he seems to have avoided every drop in making his way from his Lexus to the front door.

Not a strand of his salt and pepper hair is out of place. His Nike outfit looks as if it had come directly off the rack. Before he rounds the corner, his cologne trumpets his impending arrival. He apologizes for being a few minutes late.

He dismisses accusations about illegal recruiting with a wave of the hand.

"That's because recruiting is not illegal here," he says. Recruiting is not illegal in that all players technically become free agents for about a month before they sign their one-year contracts in July.

Coaches can invite anyone they please to try out for their team.

They are not, however, allowed to promise money or equipment or college scholarships as inducements. Nor can a coach such as Nazari, who also works in the U.S. Olympic Development Program, wink and promise to use his connections as an enticement.


Huy Nguyen / DMN
In May, Hassan Nazari's Dallas Texans teams won an unprecedented eight Texas State Cup age-group championships.
Nazari says he doesn't have to recruit. The Texans record speaks for itself. The club's expansion into Lewisville and Arlington was a result of demand for his product.

"It's like in the NBA, everyone wants to play for the Lakers," he says.

Not quite everyone. Kyle Brown, a standout at Southlake Carroll High and now a star at Tulsa University, played for years with the American Eagles.

Jana McKean, Brown's mother, says Nazari began calling her home one June to recruit her son. "He didn't call once, he called many times," she says. "Once he got a sense that Kyle might be looking to move to a more competitive team that attended more big-name tournaments, the calls really started coming.

"Once, Kyle told him he might come out to a workout but then decided not to go. Hassan got very angry. The friendly calls stopped and the angry calls started to come."

McKean says other coaches called, as well. But none with Nazari's fervor.

In the end, Brown left the American Eagles and signed with Kevin Smith's Solar Club.

McKean says Kerlin, the American Eagles coaching director, told her it would be over his "dead body" that he would lose such a gifted player to the Texans.

Knowing he was going to lose Brown anyway, Kerlin steered Brown to a Solar team that would win the under-19 state championship.

Nazari denies that he was anything but professional in trying to sell Brown on the Texans.

"He would have been good for us and we would have been good for him," Nazari says. "It just didn't work out."

Nazari says plans are in the works for the Texans to build their own training facility. When that is running smoothly, he will hand off his organization to someone else and embark on a new venture – an academy with the express purpose of developing World Cup- and Olympic-quality players.

"Soccer and this country have given me everything," he says. "It has given me friends, a family, money and fame.

"I want to give something back."

Shibumi #70918 07/25/06 05:28 PM
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Are the young people who play for Nazazi motivated by anything except winning? Do they have established goals in their development. Are they even allowed to have goals? Or are they just robots? This article gives somewhat of the players view of development as opposed to the controlled development by coaches like Nazari -

Motivation is More than a Question of Winning and Losing
by Darren C. Treasure, Ph.D.
I once played soccer with a kid called Mark. Mark was a very successful youth soccer player who was always one of the better players in any team he played for. Indeed, Mark represented the National schoolboy U.15 team. About one year later, however, Mark dropped out of soccer. He said that soccer had stopped being fun as he wasn't the best player anymore. It was clear that Mark could only feel successful if he was number one and did not want to play if he could not achieve this goal.

This anecdote illustrates how important it is for coaches and/or parents to understand the ways in which their players perceive success in soccer, and the significant effects these perceptions may have on their motivation to play the game. Specifically, how hard they try in practice and during games, whether they persist when the going gets tough, and whether they practice skills that will help them get better even if they are not presently very good at them.

Research has found that for children under the age of 10 high ability is generally implied by learning, or by success at tasks they are uncertain of being able to complete. They do not judge ability with reference to performance norms or social comparisons. They can be induced to adopt anothers performance as a standard, but normally they make self-referenced rather than social norm referenced judgments of ability. For young children, when more effort is needed for success, this implies more learning which means more ability in their world. In a real sense, effort is ability for children under the age of 11!! Because young children cannot differentiate effort from ability, they do not have the cognitive ability to understand winning and losing.

If you do not believe me, go watch any U.9 game, for example, and listen to the first question a child asks as he/she comes off of the field. If it is not "Where's my snack," it will be "Did we win?" The child at this age understands that winning is important, loves to compete, but does not understand winning and losing in any systematic sense. Because of this, they will not feel sad until a parent or coach informs them that they lost and accompany this information with a positive or negative emotional reaction.

Around the age of 11-12 years, however, children develop the capacity to differentiate ability from effort and now understand that effort can only help their performance up to their current level of ability. For example, at this age a slow player recognizes that no matter how hard they try, they will not outrun the fastest player on the team. As a consequence of this developmental change, after the age of 11-12 individuals can choose to define success in two different ways, namely in a child like-way fashion in which improvement and effort are critical, or a more adult way in which outperforming others is stressed. These different ways of perceiving success manifest themselves in an individuals task or ego goal orientation.

Ego oriented individuals perceive success in terms of winning and outperforming others and believe that if they outperform someone with minimum effort they have demonstrated even higher an even higher level of perceived ability. These individuals believe that success is determined by ability and that cheating and deception may be acceptable behaviors if they enable them to achieve their goal of winning.

In contrast, task oriented individuals perceive success in terms of getting better and trying hard. Research has demonstrated that task oriented individuals will remain motivated even in times of adversity, for example when they are losing, as they perceive success in terms of trying hard and attempting to improve.

For example, the center forward who misses a few chances will continue to run into space in the attacking third of the field and accept the responsibility of taking shots at goal. Ego oriented individuals who are successful are likely to engage in the same positive behaviors. However, when ego oriented individuals begin to doubt their ability they are likely to begin to withdraw effort and engage in negative behaviors to protect their perceived soccer ability.

For example, you may find ego oriented forwards drifting further and further back after they have missed a few chances. They may explain this by stating that they want to "create from the back", or begin to blame their teammates for their inability to get the ball to them in the attacking third of the field. Although this behavior may seem illogical to you, it makes perfect sense to the player as they are attempting to preserve their now fragile perception of ability. After a while it could be that these ego oriented individuals who doubt their perceived ability, much like my friend Mark, choose to dropout of soccer all together as it no longer provides them the opportunity to feel successful as they do not achieve their goal of being the best compared to others!

In an activity in which performance during childhood and early adolescence is so closely linked to physiological, motor skill, cognitive and other psycho-social developmental issues, it seems sensible, to promote task orientation. By emphasizing outcome and winning (ego orientation), less mature children are likely to make inappropriate perceived ability assessments when the demonstration of high ability is restricted to those children who are currently the top performers.

For example, small children who struggle to compete against their bigger, quicker peers may choose to dropout of soccer prematurely because winning is the only way they can feel successful. In addition, task orientation should be fostered with those children who are currently the top age group performers.

Why is this important? As in other activities, children move from one soccer team to another, from one competitive level to another, and from one age group to another. When this occurs it is unlikely that the hierarchy of ability within the respective context will remain constant. In such instances, if the demonstration of ability is continually based on the comparison of ability to others, an individual's perception of high ability may weaken which may lead to maladaptive behaviors, including, potentially, withdrawal from the game. From a motivational perspective, therefore, it is important that we as parents and coaches attempt to promote task orientation in our young players.

By providing ways of defining success other than winning, we can ensure that our players remain motivated throughout their soccer career. Research with elite level athletes has shown that these individuals are high in both ego and task orientation. They feel successful when they win and outperform their competitors, but they also appreciate the fact that this may not always be possible. There may be occasions when they lose and/or perform badly and in these times of adversity it is important that they view success in terms other than outcome if they are to remain motivated. The issue remains, however, of how to enhance the motivation of our players by encouraging the development of task orientation.

Research has shown that the parent and/or coach is critical in the active construction of a child's perception of what is valued in the youth soccer context. Parents and coaches should critically evaluate what they do and how they do it in terms of task and ego goals.

For example, how do you define success for your players? Is it in terms of development and effort, or winning and losing? Do you design practice sessions that challenge your players which will lead to development, or do they repeat well learned skills that, although increasing the probability of winning, may delay development? How do you evaluate performance? What behaviors do you consider desirable? Do you congratulate players when they win and outperform others or when they try hard and improve? How do you react when the team wins or loses?

Persuasive evidence exists to suggest that by making certain cues, rewards, and expectations salient a parent or coach can encourage a particular goal orientation and in so doing affect the way a child perceives the soccer experience. If we are to ensure that all youth soccer players are optimally motivated coaches should, therefore, work hard to establish an environment that promotes task goals: a developmentally appropriate environment in which children are evaluated on their skill development and effort and not their comparative performance and ability.

http://www.thepitch.org/
Author: Darren C. Treasure, Ph.D.
Email: Darren.Treasure@asu.edu

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Thanks for the article, Chico. Very interesting.

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It is interesting that this successful club is also managed by an Iranian. Maybe the secret to success in soccer is autocratic power.
http://www.javanon.com/Info/History.htm

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Just another tidbit regarding the national championships -Western Kentucky U. has 7 players playing on 2 different teams at nationals.
http://www.wkusports.com/news.cgi?article=4594

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Defending National Champ Dallas Texans are beaten in first game. Nazari needs to do a better job of recruiting -
http://championships.usyouthsoccer.org/i...hange_well_id=2

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Striker…you were scaring me with the dissertation. I missed the good doctor’s tag line at the top and thought that one of our own was kicking the level of discussion up way too high for us mere mortals…unless you really are a PHD in disguise? Lots to think about here..


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who_me? #70925 07/27/06 12:52 PM
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It appears that in the first matches at nationals for U17G, both matches were ties—0-0 and 1-1. The CESA U17G lost to the D Texans 1-0 at regionals, and the CESA coach talked after the match about being one inch away from being at the very top level. In this discussion, we need to consider that it is often easier and attainable to travel all except the last INCH of a 100 mile journey to a championship—with the last inch being much harder than all that came before. I am convinced that final inch is made up of luck and the belief that you are the winner, the so-called intangibles. Some in SC are starting to raise EXPECTATIONS, thus increasing the likelihood of that final push to being at the very top.


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The Fort Mill 11 & 12 year old boys won the SC Little league state championship last week. In a couple of weeks they will head to St. Pete to play in regionals for the right to advance to Williamsport. Do we look at SC baseball the same way we view SC soccer? Are the FM kids prohibitive underdogs because they come from a small state and should not be expected to contend with the champions of Florida, Georgia and North Carolina?

Or, because Little League confines their teams to geographic boundaries......do the South Carolina kids have just as good a shot as everyone else?


Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
Hurst66 #70927 07/27/06 01:52 PM
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You can make the arguement that SC is disadvantaged compared to states/clubs with larger population centers. But this is the 21st century, man. When it all boils down.. it's 11v11.

There is no reason not to have high expectations for SC.

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SC youth baseball has had past success in regionals and advanced to World Series in the past. I think it is because the geographical boundary levels things out somewhat as you say, but we still have smaller populations within those boundaries. So it is quite an accomplishment when a SC team does win a little league regional. So I do not feel that SC teams are prohibitive underdogs in youth baseball. It is difficult to compare to soccer because players of course can play outside their respective regions.
Good luck to Fort Mill!

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After first day of play, 11 ties and 11 1-goal differential games out of 24. That is competitive soccer!
http://championships.usyouthsoccer.org/i...hange_well_id=2

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>>[Hurst66] Or, because Little League confines their teams to geographic boundaries......do the South Carolina kids have just as good a shot as everyone else?<<

We in South Carolina now confine our teams to geographic boundaries (50%+ of a team must be of players from the district in which the club is registered) -- I wonder if that makes us more or less competitive with North Texas?

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>>[LE-Dude] You can make the arguement that SC is disadvantaged compared to states/clubs with larger population centers. But this is the 21st century, man. When it all boils down.. it's 11v11.

There is no reason not to have high expectations for SC.<<


I really couldn't agree more.

The answer in my opinion is stronger SC clubs that pull from a much broader recreational base and that are also able to draw players from a wide geographic area (e.g., other SC districts and even other states such as NC, GA, and TN.)

Anyone who cares about SC soccer being more competitive should ask the club(s) that they support what they are doing to increase the penetration of soccer at the youngest levels so that if nothing else we have a broader base of youth players from which to draw.

In the discussion that Beezer raised in another thread, while he and I might disagree on the details of tactics, the simple fact is that he's right -- despite advances made in the last few years, South Carolina soccer is absolutely not respected among other youth soccer players, youth soccer coaches, and many college coaches. We can either whine and complain about that or actually take action to make it better.

Shibumi #70932 07/27/06 03:28 PM
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The #1 Class of 2007 high school boys basketball recruit, Kevin Love (whose Uncle Mike is lead singer for the Beach Boys) lives in Oregon where he attends Lake Oswego HS. He plays his AAU club ball for the Southern California All-Stars.

Now I'm not a geography major, but.........


Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
Hurst66 #70933 07/27/06 06:26 PM
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The South Carolina 76ers are a Nike sponsored Girls' AAU basketball team that completes nationally. The roster is composed of players from Anderson, SC to Walterboro, SC, along with players from Georgia, North Carolina and Arkansas.

Do you want to compete nationally? A question that a parent needs to ask their child. It is then the parents' resposibility to advise and guide their children as to what that means in terms of sacrifice and commitment. In my opinion, the FAMILY makes a decision on whether that is feasible. The club/organization's only responsibility is to create/provide the offering.

Do you want to watch some of the best girls high school basketball players in the country (24 teams from California to New York) duke it out with our little ol' girls from South Carolina? Go to the Nike Nationals at Riverview Park Activities Center in North Augusta this weekend (shameless plug)!!!

deahler #70934 07/27/06 06:41 PM
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It is actually -
'Our little 'ol girls from SC, NC, GA and ARK.'
As Chico said somewhere, SC can attract players to play in SC from neighboring states, i.e. NC, GA, and possibly create stronger soccer teams, similar to this girls BB team.
It all comes down to where can the top training, instruction, environment, determination and organization be found within a reasonable location.

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How many of those Aiken Fire guys were from GA? Just curious.

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Probably 3 or 4. I know some went to Richmond Academy and some to St. Thomas Aquinas high schools.

Interesting read here on the FC Delco Crunch coach. Note in the article that 5 boys changed teams to play for her. Drove 3 hours 2,3 times a week to practice.
Thats dedication, when there are plenty of other good teams in MD.
http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060727/SPORTS13/607270427/1003/SPORTS

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GA to Aiken ain't exactly Oregon to SoCal.


Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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I know. I wasn't trying to make a comparison. Pure curiousity.

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Don't know if has been mentioned, but Tomek Charowski (Christ Church) played for the Texans while living in Anderson.

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To all who replied on this topic, thanks for reinforcing all my points in all my prior posts.

Beezer #70941 07/31/06 03:31 PM
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Another possibility to improve out competitive club status would be a joint statewide effort with Charleston Battery as with this TX organization -
http://www.dallasinter.org/

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'our' competitive

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3rd national title in a row! Note in this article that the guys skip high school ball to play club year-round. That is another way for SC teams to reach that elusive Regional title and maybe go even further.

Local soccer player part of national record-breaking team
Patti Myers
The Desert Sun
August 2, 2006
PALM SPRINGS - For the third year in a row, Palm Springs' Stephen Marshall owns a national soccer title and for the first time in United States Youth Soccer history, his boys' Under-17 team also broke into the record books with back-to-back-to-back national championships.
A member of the Arsenal Football Club soccer team, Marshall's squad won its third consecutive national title last week in Des Moines, Iowa.

The feat has only been accomplished once, by an Under-18 girls team from Northern California in 1998, according to the usyouthsoccer.org Web site.

Marshall, who is entering his senior year at Desert Chapel High School, is part of a 19-member squad that will graduate only four players.

The majority of the team, which plays and practices out of Ontario and Irvine, has been together since entering high school. Most of the players skip their high school seasons to compete at club-level year-round and the result has been nothing short of extraordinary.

"We have a lot of the same players from before and we're getting better and better," said Marshall, a 5-foot-10, 150-pounder who plays center back. "If you're going to get better, you've got to get out of the valley to play. When you do, it's a whole other level."

Marshall's teams have won state cup titles and other regional and national championships in the Northwest and in Florida. This year, they faced their stiffest competition among California teams, but emerged in the end in overtime to advance to regionals. At Boise, Idaho, Arsenal had to contend with missing the four seniors due to graduation ceremonies, then having to face the host team in the final.

"They brought their whole city," Marshall said. "They had it on the TV news and it was a very intense game. We won in overtime."

Following the regional victory, Marshall said the team started clicking with everyone back on the roster.


"We really got into a rhythm then," he said. "But the heat and humidity was an obstacle. We're used to the heat, but not the humidity and the wet fields."
In the championship round, Arsenal tied in its opener against Dallas Solar 89 SC, beat Bethesda, Md., 4-1 in the second game and topped St. Louis, Mo., 3-0 in the third match. They faced Dallas Solar 89 SC in the finals for the third year in a row and took the title again, 3-1.

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Eliminating high school for year-round club is an obvious step in favor of development because it's 3-4 more months of better players being together. Unfortunately, the ra-ra and social aspects are more important then development to most people. It's a hard sell and causes alot of bad feelings between the club and high school coaches.

Another example? U17 Eclipse (IL) women decided to go with NO high school in 2006. Result? A National Championship. During what would be high school season, they trained in specific and intense environments to improve; 3-4 months they would have lost.

People don't want to hear it but a small percent of top players need to stay with clubs while the rest of the large percent can go to high school because they won't be good enough anyway for the next, top level. That way high school has their ra-ra, social environment while the elite players continue to develop in the club system. Best of both worlds!

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As much as this might/will upset folk—and keep in mind that I and my wife have been and are high school coaches—I think the US has made a huge mistake connecting ANY sports to academics. The dynamic we use in the US is to manipulate young people by promising them access to sports (or other "fun" activities) IF they do their academic work. The truth is that if learning or sports or art or band is worth doing any of them are worth doing! Europeans have a club system separate from their schools; brilliant and apropriate. The US needs a club system for all sports (including soccer) that is in no way connected to our schools—that includes college! The way we do things now is devalues both sports AND academics—coercion is a bad thing.


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Oops—excuse the two typos above—less you think I have spent too much time on sports and not enough on academics—"appropriate" and "now devalues" (no "is")—


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That is the best post I've read on this site. THAT IS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM FOR DEVELOPMENT IN THIS COUNTRY AND WHY WE WON'T CATCH THE REST OF THE WORLD!

Please, everyone, read and understand what "Purpleandyellow" just stated. It trumps any player, coach, ODP, population, whatever factor you want to argue.

It is especially refreshing, as well, that these are high school coaches saying this.

"Purpleandyellow," great post!

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I concur with Beezer and purple. But what is the solution for America, given that our societal norms and approach to sports is so well established? I do not see how we can come even close to adopting much of the French or Italian or Netherlands concepts of youth development of the athlete. Is there room for balance and success academically and athletically such that we came become competitive internationally, or for SC regionally, in soccer. My principal thought is that the high school sports 'status' and ra-ra approach is such a part of Americana that it must remain intact. It will of course be left to the individual clubs to consider some of the tenents of foreign development, i.e., year-round training and younger focused development to attempt to raise our competitive level, whether it be in Regionals for SC or on the international scene for America.
I include these 2 articles from an AD of 33 years who is adamantly against club sports and their impact on academics.

College Sports by Charlie
Club Sports vs School Sports: (September 2004)

As club sport teams become a larger part of our national landscape, will high school athletics no longer be needed?

State legislatures have introduced bills to further the mission of club teams, coaches argue over rules against players participating concurrently on school and club teams, and many club programs have grown to overshadow the high school teams in their area.

At present, the main conflict is with soccer. Soccer activists proclaim that the sport is traditionally not tied as tightly to scholastic and collegiate levels as other “traditional” American sports. Soccer is the world game and as the sport grows and develops much like it has worldwide, it’s focused around the club level, which doesn’t have anything to do with scholastic soccer.

Club soccer advocates detest rules that apply under the educational system, such as academic eligibility and residency requirements. They want to recruit players from all over and do not care if they can or will pass any high school subject. They also want good players to play soccer year-round with them.

One underlying problem is that club programs and school programs have very different priorities. The National Federation of High School Association does not sponsor or recognize national championships in any sport. For most high school administrators, the idea of a national championship is inappropriate for the age group and should not even be a part of the high school-age culture. The elite club teams in soccer point making a “national tournament”. National championships beget corporate sponsors, heavy recruiting, and all the other unhealthy things that can happen when a sport is conducted outside the educational environment. Will we someday see a TV ad with a 14 year-old kid hawking Nike shoes?



There is an argument for going the European club model for all sports. How much public money would school districts save if they did not have athletics? Already there are fewer school staff members who coach the school teams. Non-faculty coaches have become a way of life for some schools. Club sports programs are funded by parents, but would those same parents pay the school for participation on the school team?



There are some basic philosophical differences in the school programs and the club sport model. School coaches and athletics directors promote participation. There are kids playing on school teams who will never play at the next level. The club programs want only the elite players. Without school sports, many young people would never get the opportunity to participate. In addition, education-based sports programs offer the greatest degree of accountability and evaluation of any amateur sports organization.



School sports bring communities together. What happens in football at places like Massillon, Ohio, or Odessa, Texas, cannot be duplicated by club sports. Some small communities get their identities from their local high school sports program. Club soccer will never attract 5,000+ fans cheering for a group of young men and women playing for their school. But soccer really isn’t a sport. It is a cult.



Is Soccer a Sport or a Cult? (November 2004)

There is a battle raging in America between the established interscholastic (school) sports programs and the club soccer or elite teams or travel squads as they may be called. Scholastic soccer as with all school sports must operate under a set of rules developed primarily to protect the student and the integrity of school sports. There are certain academic standards and school attendance standards that must be met by the student-athlete. There are rule limiting the number of contests a team may play. These few rules are in place to provide protection to all concerned and to insure that athletics does not disrupt the academic environment.

On the other hand, club soccer does not operate under such rules. In fact the basis of club soccer (and other non-school sports) is to have such no rules at all. Where schools are "zoned", and only students living in the school zone may participate in athletics at that school, club sports have no such zoning. This means that club, or "all-star teams" may be built from with kids from all over a city, county, state or even a region that may involve kids from several states.

Club soccer is attractive because of the prestige on the part of kids (but mainly the parents) by being a member of a "select traveling squad". Parents are willing to spend thousands of dollars and enormous amounts of time traveling to practices and out-of-town tournaments in order for their child to be on one of these teams. The whole family life may revolve around a club team. Every weekend involves a tournament, sometimes hundreds of miles from home. No one in the family has a life outside of club soccer.

Then there is the ODP or Olympic Development Program. Commitment, commitment, commitment. A professional colleague of mine has a daughter who as a high school junior was invited to an ODP tryout in a city two and one-half hours from their home. It is January and the weather is generally cold and rainy. They make the trip on a Friday afternoon after she gets out of school. Tryouts are the next day. The cost of a motel stay and meals is out of the family pocket. The next day, it is very cold and threatening snow. The ODP coaches decide it is too bad for tryouts and that they will take place the next morning. Another night in the motel and meal expenses. You got it. Called off the next day too and rescheduled for the next weekend.

Why do parents do this? Ego and the lie by club coaches that if the child makes the club team and plays year round, there will be a college scholarship waiting for them. They don't tell them there are few NCAA schools that offer even the maximum 7 1/2 full scholarships allowed per school. Most schools divide their scholarship allotment into halves and even fourths in order to sign more kids. This makes the college scholarship promise a losing financial proposition from the get-go.

Or if the family jumps through all the ODP hoops and spends the thousands of dollars associated with ODP, for the carrot of possibly making the US Olympic team. Similar to blackmail and fraud.

Club soccer is run by parents. They essentially hire the coach(es), which in most cases is one of the players parents The most popular trend though is to hire a person from a European country who played under the euro system but can't get a coaching job there. The parents run the team. That means they don't have to follow any rules that apply to scholastic sports.

The National High School Federation, the umbrella organization for state high school athletic associations, does not recognize or sanction national high school tournaments in any sport. Lots of good reasons why but mostly the expense involved, school time lost by travel, and an unhealthy educational philosophy caused by national tournaments. An opening for commercial interests to take advantage of schools, coaches and kids. Club soccer thrives on the regional and national championship concept.

Since club soccer seeks only the most elite players, it is not a developmental program as it touts itself to be. It wants the best players and the parents who can pay thousands of dollars to support it. They want to do everything they can to blackmail those kids into giving up all other school sports. One will never see an intercity kid on an elite club team. No money and no means of transportation are two of the main reasons.

Twenty or so years ago, the goal of the American soccer establishment was to someday replace interscholastic and intercollegiate football as the premier sport in the US. They dreamed of an Alabama-Auburn soccer match that would draw 80,000 fans on a Saturday afternoon. They really thought this would happen. Their goal was to go after football. One still sees bumper stickers and T-Shirts with the message "Soccer is the real football". Football (and baseball since it is played in the summer also) was the enemy. Football had it all and the soccer folks wanted it. Part of the plan was not only to promote soccer, but to tear down football.

Soccer is a great sport. It is relatively safe as compared to football or lacrosse. Size is important but agility, foot skills, and speed are more important. Uniforms and equipment are not as expensive as other sports. It has been a wonderful experience for lots of kids. It is here to stay. It will continue to grow.

Interscholastic sports keep the proper educational perspective - club soccer does not. High school associations limit the number of contests in all sports in order to keep sports in the proper educational perspective. The club soccer folks want to play 40-50 matches a year plus national tournaments, meaning a family has to give up its life for soccer. Soccer folks want to cram their sport down American throats. They have yet to convince the American media to cover club soccer as they do the more U.S. traditional sports. A sport or a cult? A sport run by cult members??
http://www.collegecharlie.com/clubsports.html

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Another good post.

That's why it's not pessimistic or, as some say, "communist," to say that we'll NEVER be a big time soccer country. It's realistic.

The cycle you've seen in U.S. Soccer from 1994-2006 is what you'll always see until massive changes occur. AND THERE"S REALLY NO ARGUMENT TO DISPROVE THAT. An average pro league, an occasional success with the National Team and a youth development system that doesn't develop top class soccer players.

If you want it and love it, with "it" being great soccer, get DirecTV and frequent flier miles!

Beezer #70950 08/06/06 07:24 PM
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The most telling part of this article is this:

Quote:

What makes Nazari unique, Simeone says, is that he founded his club and structured it so that he makes the ultimate decisions.

"All the other coaches operate in a system where they have to answer to boards and to parents," Simeone says. "With the Texans, Hassan is the system. Anyone who doesn't like it can go elsewhere.

"Hassan is the master of his own fate."

Which is the way a club has to be run, Nazari says.

"We have a lot of volunteers with good hearts," Nazari says. "But soccer people have to make soccer decisions. It is a huge mistake some clubs make that because the parents pay the money, they know the game.

"Standing around watching your son or daughter play the game does not make a parent a soccer person, just as standing in an operating room doesn't make someone a surgeon.

"I don't go to our parents and tell them how to run their businesses," he says. "The decisions have to be soccer decisions, not politically correct decisions."




Too often, clubs are run by parents that are interested ultimately only in their child's development and accomplishment rather than that of the team or club!

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Quote:

Since club soccer seeks only the most elite players, it is not a developmental program as it touts itself to be. It wants the best players and the parents who can pay thousands of dollars to support it.



Hurst66 #70952 08/07/06 01:35 AM
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A thought…over the last 10 to 15 years there has been tremendous growth in youth soccer in this country. There are now a lot of young adults in this country now who understand the basic principals of the game and understand what skills are required. They are getting close to marriage age. Down the road, could this result in Rec-coach dads and moms who actually have an idea of what they are doing?

I see friends who played football in high school teaching their kids the basics of blocking and tackling. Baseball and basketball parents do much the same. They send their kids into the sport equipped with the basics to compete. What kind of difference will having large numbers of parents who actually played soccer make in the next generation? Does it help eliminate the elitist tilt?


I didn't do it, but if I had you never would have known.
who_me? #70953 08/07/06 01:30 PM
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who_me?

How much are your football, basketball and baseball buddies getting paid? Are they teaching these skills for free? Anyone who is "sending their kids into the sport equipped with the basic skills to compete" in soccer nowadays....is getting a paycheck.

Do you see this changing in the future? As more soccer dads (and moms) evolve in the next generation, do you see them passing on their knowledge simply for...."for the love of the game"?


Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
Hurst66 #70954 08/07/06 04:30 PM
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Hurst,
Ummmmm, I don't charge my son when I teach him and practice with him at home. I do believe that is what who was referring to.

kdlsc #70955 08/07/06 05:35 PM
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Good point kdlsc. I was reading it as if they were coaching a rec team.....and then turning them loose to a higher level.


Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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This Eclipse Select Club has a year round program, which many of the girls play in instead of high school ball. Of course, two of their teams won national championships.

http://www.eclipseselect.org/year_round_program.htm

But, look at the method they employed to win that championship and all the excitement stirred up at the finals this year-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8-SyOeS3lA

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206586&page=5

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Looks like the "Spirit of the Game" was really being stressed here. If this is what the absolute highest level of competitive US youth soccer is all about, then I'll continue to just float on my back here in my little pond (South Carolina).

The next guy who suggests we scrap high school soccer in favor of forming a juggernaut to contest for a national championship ought to think twice. is this what we really aspire to be?


Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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04... thanks for the info.

I took a little time to go thru the thread in the links and was amazed by the thoughts expressed.

I have no input at this time, other than it happened to me once. And reading the thread gave me perspective on the "other side of the story" which I did not have.

I have to digest this one....

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Hurst,
Even though I have said that a year-round format should be considered, I do most assuredly believe that high school ball serves a vital purpose for youth, and should never be scrapped. But as is quite evident, year-round programs can be very successful.
But the tactics employed here by the Eclipse team coach are irresponsible and did not garner any votes for the Fair Play award.

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Beforehand,

1) They had to win Illinois, a tough state in Region II
2) They had to win Region II, a feat in itself
3) Had already qualified for the Championship
4) Still had to win the final

That's the problem with the format USYSA changed to a few years back; it allows that to happen, however, at that stage you do what it takes to win. If the result isn't a necessity and the opposition is playing low pressure, why attack? And expend energy in heat before the Final?

Four teams: two semifinals and a final. Simple.

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That game with PDA was on Friday. The Championship was not until Sun. They had 2 days to recover from that 'intense' possession game they were playing. The format obviously needs to be altered to prevent similar coaching tactics.

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I'm much more disappointed with the Texans U-15 parents, than I am with The Eclipse going through the motions.


From Big Soccer Boards:

"Now HERE is the real sad story. FIRST - A Texans U15 parent ran onto the field DURING THE GAME to assault 15 year old Eclipse soccer players and had to be restrained by the PDA coaches. He was then arrested by Des Moines police. THEN, the Eclipse team had to be escorted to their bus by security because a number of Dallas parents continued to hurl VICIOUS AND PROFANE insults at these 15 YEAR OLD GIRLS."

Seems to me that "Dad" got pretty worked up.....probably because it cost him about $2,500 to fly his family up to Des Moines to watch his girl play, and he thought he was getting a raw deal. I'd rather use all that passion to work on solving world hunger.

Can somebody give this guy Bono or Geldof's phone number?


Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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After having to be around the Dallas Texans U17G parents for a single game, I completely understand. I admire the club for what it has accomplished, but the parents are a bit of a handful.

By the way -- in terms of nationals in the U17G age group -- Dallas did not make it to the finals (they were third in points.) The two teams playing in the finals were Chicago's Eclipse Select and PA's Spirit United Gaels. Eclispe Select won.

As an FYI for those interested in South Carolina girls soccer. CESA's U17G team lost in regionals to Dallas 1-0. That same team lost the finals at the Disney Showcase to the Gael's 2-0 (both goals scored in the last ten minutes.)

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>>[Hurst66] Seems to me that "Dad" got pretty worked up.....probably because it cost him about $2,500 to fly his family up to Des Moines to watch his girl play, and he thought he was getting a raw deal. I'd rather use all that passion to work on solving world hunger.<<

Or at least solving the near 50% uplift ($40 per night) on hotel rooms charged in Little Rock at regionals. I've never before complained about this kind of stuff -- but the term "scam" comes to mind when you look at what they did with respect to hotels and the parking surcharge at the field.

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Fox Soccer Channel with some of the National Finals this Friday-
HTTP://SOCCERFLA.COM/2006/20060807-4.HTM

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