SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP Atlanta Cup - Where are the SC Girls?

Coach P, I am aware of the total # of teams in R III. I only listed southern teams for comparison, but here are the others-
OK 24-16-8
STX 23-12-4
NTX 52-6-11

First, this will be my last post on this topic because of the seemingly infinite dialog that could go forever but, again, I believe it's more the development systems and culture, for the players you have, then population.

Second, a college cannot, due to NCAA rules, do anything to fund or promote youth soccer other then as an individual coaches within a club.

Third, I can only speak for myself outside of my full time job but was very active for another Charleston club until the opportunity to help Clark Brisson launch the Bridge FA development system a few years back; an opportunity that has given top players in the Lowcountry some great and, for this area, some unprecedented options while allowing other players to continue to play a different level with other clubs.

In addition, there are now some free year-round opportunities I helped create, with my players and fellow coaches, as well as successful, local day and overnight camp options for women in the summer that weren't available upon arrival in 2001.

These kind of steps in the East and CESA's much larger steps in the West (and Central) are very positive BUT larger ones are still needed, for development assistance, through SCYSA.

Beezer: Thanks for contributing as long as you did on this thread. While I disagree with some of your smaller points, as I've said multiple times, on multiple threads, I strongly believe in your core thesis: South Carolina needs to change to better our level of youth soccer.

In terms of population...and how it's not necessarily a limiting factor (basically, statistically backing up your point that we have to look at more than population)...here's something posted a while back:

Are demographics destiny?
The case for SCYSA and its member clubs focusing on increasing soccer penetration.

[...] The question I started wondering about is why we don't have enough teams -- is it just population or could there be other, equally important, factors at work?

South Carolina has 18,976 registered soccer players [source: USYS Registration Report, July 31, 2005]. South Carolina has a 5-18 year old population of 771,370 [source: US Census, 2003]. Thus, South Carolina has a 2.46% penetration rate of 5-18 year olds playing soccer.

The average penetration rate of all of the states constituting Region III is 3.59%.

South Carolina is thus 31.45% below the average penetration rate of Region III. Only one state, Alabama, has a lower penetration rate [2.25%, which is 37.29% below the Region III average].

Thus, hypothetically, if South Carolina were to raise its penetration rate to the Region III average, and we assume that these gains were across the board, South Carolina would field almost 1/3 more teams in challenge and classic than it does now.

If South Carolina were to raise its penetration rate to that of the highest state in Region III [Oklahoma, 5.62% penetration rate] then South Carolina would field more than 1/2 more teams in challenge and classic than it does now, assuming these gains were across the board.

Also note that Oklahoma is far from having the highest penetration rates in the US. Colorado is 7.86%, Oregon is 8.48%, and Washington is 10.15%! So a goal of increasing penetration rates to that of Oklahoma is far from far fetched.

The old excuse that South Carolina is a "football state" doesn't ring true. South Carolina is no more a "football state" than many of the other states in Region III -- particularly Oklahoma or Georgia [Georgia has a 3.74% penetration rate]. And the old "only rich kids play soccer" doesn't make sense when you see Mississippi with a 3.89% penetration rate or Arkansas with a 3.8% penetration rate.

It seems to me that the SCYSA, and its constituent clubs, need to prioritize its resources and effort on increasing the penetration rate of South Carolina soccer into ages 5-18. How? The obvious first place to do this is in partnership with our elementary schools and secondarily in our middle schools.

[Preface: Beezer...I understand that you said you'd no longer contribute to this thread and I respect that. However, yesterday when you posted this I wasn't available; it's such an interesting post that I feel compelled to reply.]

>>[Beezer] Let's remember that we are speaking about women hence the title of this post.

I respect fully what CESA is doing and by no means want to belittle but, again, in the big picture CESA, an SC, are not CONSISTENTLY showing top teams at the top events. A team here and there that shows up at a top event a few times and does well does not mean the club as a whole is at the elite level. <<

Again, I think in order for CESA to get to the "next level", they have to achieve a top 3 ranking in RIIIPL-East in most age groups each year. And I certainly think that they need to do well at "top events." However, if you're going to go to a tournament, I'd pick Surf over WAGS or CASL Showcase; I've not been impressed by what I've seen there in terms of tournament organization, fields, scheduling, and the like. I believe both suffer from some type of "success syndrome." There are better tournaments in Houston, Las Vegas, etc. if your intent is less to be seen by Region III coaches and more to improve the game.

After seeing the Dallas Texans and even Oklahoma [i.e., ESC and Tulsa] in several age groups in the past few years, I believe that CESA has to focus on playing and beginning to win against the stronger RIIIPL teams rather than solely focusing on RIIIPL-East teams or going up to play Region I teams in Washington.

>>In SC? Yes, they are elite. But that's SC, a lower state in the country's weakest region. Do other clubs in SC need to keep pace with CESA to improve the whole? Absolutely, I agree.<<

There's no doubt at all that SC is a weak state. Here's the thing -- do you think anyone doubts you that SC is weak? As I said in an earlier thread, no one is arguing with your core premise; instead, they're arguing about the acceleration of SC soccer.

>>Is the club a "one-off success?" No, they are building so judgement can't be made too much yet. But the individual teams and players you mentioned? Yes, they are one-off because there's not a consistent following to back them up. And, that doesn't mean the players aren't good but just that they are some of the few, or one-off success, until more come along more often.<<

You started this discussion referencing that it first began about the girls side. On the girls side, in 2005, SC had 9 region pool players. In 2006, with generally smaller pools, SC had 6 region pool players. 8 of the 9 in 2005 came from CESA; 5 of the 6 in 2006 came from CESA. It should be noted that in some of the years before SC has had 0 region pool players.

I call this out because RIIIPL-East finishes and region pool selections are relatively easy ways to tell how SC and clubs are doing. On the girls side, it feels as if CESA is making strides not just within SC [where they swept the state challenge cup in 2005-2006 -- perhaps a small accomplishment, but one that would never have been predicted before CESA was formed] but within RIIIPL-East and at tournaments such as Disney and CASL [before they stopped entering it this year.]

>>The intent is not to minimize anyone but to just be honest about the state's overall standing in the eyes of collegiate and Region III coaches that's passed around in meetings and coaching circles. <<

Is there any doubt that the "average" premier player in Georgia is better than the "average" premier player in SC? No. Is there any doubt that the "average" premier team in Georgia is better than the "average" premier team in SC? No. Is there any doubt that collegiate and Region III coaches know that? No. And while having 6 region pool players is a step up; it's far and away not competitive with Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia, or North Carolina.

However, here's the thing. I figure I can spend my time and energy helping only so many organizations be successful. If I have to choose who to help in South Carolina, where do start? SCYSA? Really? Tell me, you've got Steve Ballentine's job tomorrow but with the rest of the SCYSA BOD; what do you do to accelerate SC soccer? Make some rules prohibiting team composition to sub-state geographies to appease some of your constituent clubs? No...that's taking things in opposite direction.

To me, your best bet is to take your time and energy and spend it helping organizations accelerate who are already driving in the right direction. I've been highly complimentary of CESA on this message board as well as Bridge, and I'm working hard to be optimistic about CUFC. Because they have a history, CESA and Bridge certainly in my opinion deserve support -- CESA in raising its level of play in RIIIPL-East and Bridge in fielding teams and reaching out beyond just the low-country to serve players. [Note: This isn't a dig at CUFC -- it's just new and hasn't had a chance to prove anything yet.]

If you have other specific ideas, ideas that can be realized by something other than a bloodless coup on the SCYSA, I'd love to hear them.

Beezer,

We are a small state and will always be at a population disadvantage. So how do we get to where you want us to be, in terms of making an impact on the national level? Broaden the base or throw more resources at the top? Which end of the iceberg do you want to concentrate on?

If you want to work on the base.....you probably won't see the fruits of your labor for many years.

If you want to work the tip of the iceberg, tell Bridge FA and CUFC to roll into CESA and we will play with one club. Thanks for all you've done in the low country and midlands, pack your bags....we're going north. Tell mom & dad to gas up the SUV....and the kids can do their homework in the car during their 2+ hour commute each way.

Regarding the above post....I'm not ripping CESA or insinuating that they are trying to take over the state. I simply chose them as the "one club" in SC because of their history.....they continue to raise the bar.

I think it would be interesting to hear some Club visionaries share their thoughts on the direction of elite Club soccer. I don't mean us........

I mean people like the real movers and shakers behind CESA, Bridge, CUFC, etc. In an official setting.....not hidden behind aliases on a forum.

On one hand, who cares whether teams from our small state can compete with teams from Texas or Georgia on a regional / national level? Is that reallly what its all about, other than for a handful of hyper competitve people?

But is there something else at play? I'm sure the schools from the Big East and Conference USA were thinking along those lines before the ACC came calling on Miami, BC and Syracuse. The ripple effect of the ACC becoming either predatory or forward thinking (which view you hold to depends on your perspective)......was massive!!! The Big East was able to recover......but what happened to Conf USA?

The idea of the need for a single Club representing the elite players of our small state appears ludicrous. However.......If the focus is switching away from winning State Cup and focussing more on competing on a regional and national level, then the CESA's and Bridge's and CUFC's of the world have the choice of becoming prey or predator. Its that simple.

Is youth soccer heading the way of bigtime college conferences, which is survival of the fittest? Will we have the cuircumstances where if the top 6-10 SC kids per age group that CAN'T win on a regional level.....moving to play in a State that can (NC or GA) in order to do so.? And if you see that type of thing unfolding.....then the bigger Clubs need to grow and grow quickly in order to get ahead of the curve.

As someone driving that 2 hour commute (1-way) for every CESA practice, I can tell you that if your kid is really ambitious, it's worth it. This weekend she was able to play against Newberry and NKU (Northern Kentucky University, the #10 ranked DII school in the country last year) as a warmup to her team's RIIIPL-East season.

Been doing this for three years now. She does do her homework in the car; her GPA is pretty high -- I've always thought in part because the car can be a sensory deprivation zone to a teenager and she focuses hard on her homework.

Chico,

I was talking about 2 hours each way. I don't know how those Mt. Pleasant girls do it. Also, how did Newberry stack up vs. NKU, in your humble opinion?

I thought NCAA did not allow these games any more.... or was it only off-season?