SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP Atlanta Cup - Where are the SC Girls?

I was looking at the teams that have registered for the Atlanta Cup and I am surprised at the lack of South Carolina participation on the girls side (I haven't even looked at the boys side). This is a fairly competitive tournament, drawing many good teams from GA, NC, FL & AL. Seems a logical place to get some good matches if you have a quality team. Why no SC clubs???

The only ones I found may even be a misprint. SAA Elite in the U-11's and U-12's.

http://www.atlcup.com/TTTeamList.aspx?tid=atlanta

If I'm not mistaken, CESA decided to no longer participate in the Atlanta Cup, the CASL Showcase, and WAGS.

I thought I heard that CESA had decided against participating because it was decided that more value could be had for money by going elsewhere and doing other things.

All CUFC Elite teams are playing in the Disney Qualifier that weekend.


>>The only ones I found may even be a misprint.
>>SAA Elite in the U-11's and U-12's.

I think these are Southern Academy Alliance teams. I noticed a U13 SAA Elite girls' team is registered in the Challenge Division of the PMSL for the fall. Here is their team page at scysa: web page

Intersting that CESA would opt out of what is largely regarded as the two most visible college recruiting tournaments on the east coast (WAGS & CASL Showcase). I do think it is a good move by CESA to give their girls maximum exposure in front of SC college coaches (tournaments & college friendlies) because face it.....most SC girls stay in-state. It's too good of a deal to pass up.

I'm not familiar with Southern Academy Alliance?

Hurst66: Let me stress again that the following are my opinions only...

I think I understand not going to WAGS; it's a Region I tournament and appears to have a preponderance of coaches from Region I. Someone...I think it was the Score at the Shore people...put out an interesting white paper a few years ago on attending cross-region tournaments...the bottom line was that it benefited only a very few kids because most went to college within their region. Last year we had one fine player go to Villanova and it may very well have helped her -- but that's the only example I can think of in the last few years.

Regarding the CASL Showcase...in my personal opinion, it's an incredibly overrated tournament. My personal experience with it is that the fields are horrible and the competition is poor -- it seems to me to be an example of a tournament that is living off of its reputation.

If CESA isn't going to WAGS, then I trust the staff that made that decision. If CESA isn't going to the CASL Showcase, then I applaud their decision.

Finally, I appreciate the fact that someone is sanity checking these things. As I said in another thread -- tryout fees, registration fees, and training fees are nothing compared to tournament registration, fuel, hotel, eating out, and the like fees associated with a tournament. I'm hoping that we see some innovative approaches to increasing the level of competition exclusive of these two tournaments.

I remember the analysis on girls playing within region and it certainly makes sense. As I've mentioned a thousand times on these boards, if you have the ability to play D1 or D2 ball in-state, the financial incentives can be very good.

You'll find the analysis below:
Girl Analysis

Boys analysis

Really, really good analysis. Thing I didn't realize.....is why are there so many fewer colleges /roster spots in Region 4 as in Region 2? I understand Region 1 due to population density.....but I would have thought Region 3 the least populated of the 4 regions. Also.....with fewer colleges.

Amazingly, my paradigm couldn't have been more wrong. Also funny that the Left COast schools stay home while the East COast schools evidently look for the best players.

Perhaps more great players on the West COast.....but then why do East COast schools do so much better in terms of winning championships or competing for championships?

Daddy,

Univ. of Portland and Santa Clara are always there at the end of the year, representing the left coast.

North Carolina has that many teams at the end of the year. I'd expect that region to at least keep up with the ACC.

Striker,

Here's some earlier discussion on the Atlanta Cup. I'll be there with my daughter's U-13 team out of Charlotte.

OK, Thanks.
I missed all that. If CESA is not going to CASL or WAGS or Atlanta, and CUFC is going to Disney Qualifier, then we need to consider spending all that money in-state that would normally be spent on all that travel and expenses.(especially with gas prices as they are). I propose that CESA and CUFC and Lex. jointly sponsor a big-time tournament in Cola. SC does not have anything on a large scale. Now that NECSA & CSC have merged, and there are enough fields and facilities here between Lex.& CUFC to put on a big tournament. And with the presence of CESA in the mix, I think it could attract quality teams from the southeast and beyond. I know this is a big leap of faith to expect CESA and CUSC and Lex. to cooperate on such a venture, but you do have some incredibly organized people in those clubs. It would also get some backing from the city and county since it would be an economic bonanza for the area. Also all profits could be split between the clubs. Just soccer food for thought.

As far as launching a big-time tourney in SC:

Rock Hill has the premium facility (although 8 fields are not enough).

Columbia has the central location (easy to get to via interstate from anywhere).

Greenville has the experience and organization. (CESA)

Charleston has the amenities (great city, beaches).

I have heard great things about Manchester Meadows and can't wait to see them one day. Maybe during the fictional big-time tournament there could be some showcase games or the finals played there. Its only 1hr15 from Cola.(not a bad distance when you consider that the finals at Atlanta are always held an hour away from where you played the prelims. Charleston does not have enough quality fields, so it would have to be centrally located in Cola.

Lets just DO IT!

WAGS, CASL, Disney and PDA are the top events for quality and quantity and are not overrated. The reason very low numbers of SC teams are there is because 1) they don't get in or 2) get placed in low brackets, CESA included.

Also, the reason SC players don't play at alot of out-of-state schools is because 1) they are not good enough for the money they need and/or 2) are not respected enough by coaches.

In-state, they are used to fill in-state quotas set by the administrations. That's why alot of top players stay in-state, because schools fill their SC spots with the top players without it costing much.

That's the truth and bottom line on those topics.

I'm pretty sure the CUFC U17 girls team is going to WAGS.

Beezer - Whatever! You're wayyyyyyyyy off!

Lindsey Beam can play just about anywhere. Beth Keller could have played just about anywhere. Alex Mouton was a solid recruit for USC and had opps elsewhere. Brynn Post had lots of options as well. You know not of what you speak!

Unfortunately, we don't have great numbers of players in SC that are of "top caliber" but we have enough to be respected!

Beezer,
By now, I guess I know that you are speaking of "SC soccer" in general, but there are clubs/teams that are exceptions and it rubs me the wrong way when I see you lump them into your contempt for SC soccer.
Just so you'll know (not that you will be impressed), CESA u16G (now rising u17G), the same CESA u16G that "only" got to the quarters at Regionals, WON (I know you don't give much credence for anything less than winning!) the Champions B Division of the Raleigh Shootout last fall. The Champions B Division was the 2nd highest possible division out of 8 divisions. The current u16G national champion Real Colorado National was in this division, as well as a few other Regional semi-finalists and quarterfinalists.
Also, the CESA u17G (rising u18s) won all their games at Raleigh. I don't know how the rest of the CESA teams did.
I don't know why CESA teams aren't playing Raleigh this year (maybe it's because it's at the same time as the SCYSA State Cup) or why they aren't playing WAGS, but I wouldn't think it would be because they couldn't get in, although this might be the case for some other SC teams/clubs- I don't know.
I'm tired of seeing you dis-respecting all of SC soccer when there are clubs/teams that have done plenty to bring respect to SC. Don't throw the babies out with the bath water.

I could only find 2 South Carolina teams on the WAGS 2006 acceptance list: Columbia United FC U15 Elite and SAA U11 Elite.

sbs and 202677:

Of course there are one-off teams and individuals from time to time but, for the most part, you two are "way off" in trying to defend SC players and teams as a consistent whole.

As someone pretty darn close to D-I and Region III coaches on a pretty routine basis, I think I can say the ideas reflected in my post are pretty accurate and not just mine by a long shot.

It's that naive and protecting approach that you two, and SC people, need to snap out of and realize change is needed.

>>[Beezer] WAGS, CASL, Disney and PDA are the top events for quality and quantity and are not overrated. The reason very low numbers of SC teams are there is because 1) they don't get in or 2) get placed in low brackets, CESA included.<<

You were doing fine on your argument until you threw in the gratuitous "CESA included." So help me out here; CESA's premier teams pretty much all got into Disney [not the qualifiers, but the showcase itself] last year and this, they've done well in high brackets, and yet CESA teams can't get into these tournaments or are seeded low? CESA has most (I think it's "all") of its premier teams going to Disney but walked away from CASL and WAGS because of this? This doesn't make sense.

I do believe that there is a core to your message which is true -- South Carolina soccer is weak and needs change. In your zealous attempts to agitate for change in South Carolina soccer, however, it appears to me that you are overreaching in your arguments by drawing broad generalizations with an unknown and unverifiable "appeal to authority" argument and by refuting specific evidence as only "one-off" examples.

But it goes beyond even this. Did you read the Score at the Shore reports cited by others in this thread? Broad, statistical evidence that cross-region participation in college soccer enrollment is miniscule; and yet you blithely toss that away because it gets in the way of your preconceived thoughts and argument.

Bottom line: I don't disagree with your core argument that South Carolina soccer is weak and in need of fundamental change. But in your zeal to make your arguments, you are coming across as more naive and protecting of your personal ideology than others are of the teams and clubs on which their children play. Recognizing that South Carolina soccer has undergone significant change in the past few years and can no longer be painted with a broad brush through simple-minded generalizations doesn't weaken your fundamental argument; however, the inability to recognize this does.

Of course there are one-off teams and individuals from time to time but, for the most part, you two are "way off" in trying to defend SC players and teams as a consistent whole.


I know I cannot say it any better than Chico just did, but by recognizing the impressive accomplishments of teams from a specific club, I was not attempting to defend SC players and teams as a "consistent whole." I guess my point might be that you cannot speak of SC soccer as a "consistent whole" anymore, because there is at least one club that is obviously doing something right to be having the success it is having with some of its teams. And I don't believe this is just a case of "one-off" success, as you like to claim. I don't think my pointing out the success that this club CESA is having, is refuting that other changes need to made in order for the rest of SC to start having more success.

Let's remember that we are speaking about women hence the title of this post.

I respect fully what CESA is doing and by no means want to belittle but, again, in the big picture CESA, an SC, are not CONSISTENTLY showing top teams at the top events. A team here and there that shows up at a top event a few times and does well does not mean the club as a whole is at the elite level.

In SC? Yes, they are elite. But that's SC, a lower state in the country's weakest region. Do other clubs in SC need to keep pace with CESA to improve the whole? Absolutely, I agree.

Is the club a "one-off success?" No, they are building so judgement can't be made too much yet. But the individual teams and players you mentioned? Yes, they are one-off because there's not a consistent following to back them up. And, that doesn't mean the players aren't good but just that they are some of the few, or one-off success, until more come along more often.

The intent is not to minimize anyone but to just be honest about the state's overall standing in the eyes of collegiate and Region III coaches that's passed around in meetings and coaching circles.

Beezer, as much as I agree with you, I feel we have to see how far we have come, given our small state population. Ideally, I would have the best players train at one club. With year-round development among the best players, we would have a better chance of winning Regionals.
I will post this here, even though it speaks to boys & girls club teams. These are raw numbers from Region III Championships to see how SC compares to some other southern states. Only the first 3 prelim games for each team are included in totals. I hope Chico can provide a good analysis of these raw numbers, and what, if anything, they may tell us. I will attempt to reflect on these comparisons later, but feel free to comment-
W L Ties
NC 26-24-7
SC 11-19-6
TN 11-19-3
GA 33-11-13
AL 4-20-3
ARK 3-34-3
MS 10-28-4
FL 21-16-5
LA 15-29-4

Not to upstage Chico when it comes to data analysis -- I don't think even Einstein could pull that off :-) -- but take a look at the winning percentage at Region III and the population totals:

State, W-L-T, Win% -- Population (Wins / Population)
GA, 33-11-13, .693 -- 9,072,576 (3.63)
FL, 21-16-5, .560 -- 17,789,864 (1.18)
NC, 26-24-7, .518 -- 8,683,242 (2.99)
SC, 11-19-6, .389 -- 4,255,083 (2.59)
TN, 11-19-3, .379 -- 5,962,959 (1.85)
LA, 15-29-4, .354 -- 4,523,628 (3.32)
MS, 10-28-4, .286 -- 2,921,088 (3.42)
AL, 4-20-3, .204 -- 4,557,808 (8.78)
AR, 3-34-3, .113 -- 2,779,154 (1.08)

Chico, what can you make of the final column in terms of the ratio of population compared to total wins by that state?

Kyle, Its always good to put stats and respective opinions in the proper context, when possible. Thanks for that initial analysis, which we know Chico will expound on with his spectacular, near-mystical perspective. To look further at this it may be essential to not just look only at the entire state populations, but the respective populations registered to play club soccer in those states. I posted elsewhere in another thread that FL has 100,000 registered players. I will see if I can find out the others.

I'm not a numbers guy.. but even I can see..

SC is 4th in win percentage.. and 7th in population.

Can't we (SC) toot our horn a little.. while still acknowledging that "US Soccer" still has a long way to go?

Any reason N. Texas, S. Texas, and Oklahoma have been left out of your stats? There are 12 state associations in Region III.

Three big associations to leave out, huh?

And get off the population. Should United States, China and India win every World Cup? Concentrate on development systems. An area SC is suffering as a whole and when it's defended it shows the lack of soccer knowledge and ignorance instead of wllingness to change and improve. It's only a few things for big change!

Post deleted by Kyle Heise

Beezer - What would you do to elevate SC girls talent to the top? How about the boys? How would you solve our problems of having 20,000 registered players (all ages) in SCYSA, whereas Dallas or Atlanta have 200,000 alone? Don't tell me population doesn't matter. If it did not, why wouldn't the HSL allow Summerville to be in the same conference as Academic Magnet for football? Because the score every year would be 100+ to 0! Population does matter! What has CofC done to promote women's soccer in Charleston? In SC? The colleges have the money, they should be doing the most promotion!

Coach P, I am aware of the total # of teams in R III. I only listed southern teams for comparison, but here are the others-
OK 24-16-8
STX 23-12-4
NTX 52-6-11

First, this will be my last post on this topic because of the seemingly infinite dialog that could go forever but, again, I believe it's more the development systems and culture, for the players you have, then population.

Second, a college cannot, due to NCAA rules, do anything to fund or promote youth soccer other then as an individual coaches within a club.

Third, I can only speak for myself outside of my full time job but was very active for another Charleston club until the opportunity to help Clark Brisson launch the Bridge FA development system a few years back; an opportunity that has given top players in the Lowcountry some great and, for this area, some unprecedented options while allowing other players to continue to play a different level with other clubs.

In addition, there are now some free year-round opportunities I helped create, with my players and fellow coaches, as well as successful, local day and overnight camp options for women in the summer that weren't available upon arrival in 2001.

These kind of steps in the East and CESA's much larger steps in the West (and Central) are very positive BUT larger ones are still needed, for development assistance, through SCYSA.

Beezer: Thanks for contributing as long as you did on this thread. While I disagree with some of your smaller points, as I've said multiple times, on multiple threads, I strongly believe in your core thesis: South Carolina needs to change to better our level of youth soccer.

In terms of population...and how it's not necessarily a limiting factor (basically, statistically backing up your point that we have to look at more than population)...here's something posted a while back:

Are demographics destiny?
The case for SCYSA and its member clubs focusing on increasing soccer penetration.

[...] The question I started wondering about is why we don't have enough teams -- is it just population or could there be other, equally important, factors at work?

South Carolina has 18,976 registered soccer players [source: USYS Registration Report, July 31, 2005]. South Carolina has a 5-18 year old population of 771,370 [source: US Census, 2003]. Thus, South Carolina has a 2.46% penetration rate of 5-18 year olds playing soccer.

The average penetration rate of all of the states constituting Region III is 3.59%.

South Carolina is thus 31.45% below the average penetration rate of Region III. Only one state, Alabama, has a lower penetration rate [2.25%, which is 37.29% below the Region III average].

Thus, hypothetically, if South Carolina were to raise its penetration rate to the Region III average, and we assume that these gains were across the board, South Carolina would field almost 1/3 more teams in challenge and classic than it does now.

If South Carolina were to raise its penetration rate to that of the highest state in Region III [Oklahoma, 5.62% penetration rate] then South Carolina would field more than 1/2 more teams in challenge and classic than it does now, assuming these gains were across the board.

Also note that Oklahoma is far from having the highest penetration rates in the US. Colorado is 7.86%, Oregon is 8.48%, and Washington is 10.15%! So a goal of increasing penetration rates to that of Oklahoma is far from far fetched.

The old excuse that South Carolina is a "football state" doesn't ring true. South Carolina is no more a "football state" than many of the other states in Region III -- particularly Oklahoma or Georgia [Georgia has a 3.74% penetration rate]. And the old "only rich kids play soccer" doesn't make sense when you see Mississippi with a 3.89% penetration rate or Arkansas with a 3.8% penetration rate.

It seems to me that the SCYSA, and its constituent clubs, need to prioritize its resources and effort on increasing the penetration rate of South Carolina soccer into ages 5-18. How? The obvious first place to do this is in partnership with our elementary schools and secondarily in our middle schools.

[Preface: Beezer...I understand that you said you'd no longer contribute to this thread and I respect that. However, yesterday when you posted this I wasn't available; it's such an interesting post that I feel compelled to reply.]

>>[Beezer] Let's remember that we are speaking about women hence the title of this post.

I respect fully what CESA is doing and by no means want to belittle but, again, in the big picture CESA, an SC, are not CONSISTENTLY showing top teams at the top events. A team here and there that shows up at a top event a few times and does well does not mean the club as a whole is at the elite level. <<

Again, I think in order for CESA to get to the "next level", they have to achieve a top 3 ranking in RIIIPL-East in most age groups each year. And I certainly think that they need to do well at "top events." However, if you're going to go to a tournament, I'd pick Surf over WAGS or CASL Showcase; I've not been impressed by what I've seen there in terms of tournament organization, fields, scheduling, and the like. I believe both suffer from some type of "success syndrome." There are better tournaments in Houston, Las Vegas, etc. if your intent is less to be seen by Region III coaches and more to improve the game.

After seeing the Dallas Texans and even Oklahoma [i.e., ESC and Tulsa] in several age groups in the past few years, I believe that CESA has to focus on playing and beginning to win against the stronger RIIIPL teams rather than solely focusing on RIIIPL-East teams or going up to play Region I teams in Washington.

>>In SC? Yes, they are elite. But that's SC, a lower state in the country's weakest region. Do other clubs in SC need to keep pace with CESA to improve the whole? Absolutely, I agree.<<

There's no doubt at all that SC is a weak state. Here's the thing -- do you think anyone doubts you that SC is weak? As I said in an earlier thread, no one is arguing with your core premise; instead, they're arguing about the acceleration of SC soccer.

>>Is the club a "one-off success?" No, they are building so judgement can't be made too much yet. But the individual teams and players you mentioned? Yes, they are one-off because there's not a consistent following to back them up. And, that doesn't mean the players aren't good but just that they are some of the few, or one-off success, until more come along more often.<<

You started this discussion referencing that it first began about the girls side. On the girls side, in 2005, SC had 9 region pool players. In 2006, with generally smaller pools, SC had 6 region pool players. 8 of the 9 in 2005 came from CESA; 5 of the 6 in 2006 came from CESA. It should be noted that in some of the years before SC has had 0 region pool players.

I call this out because RIIIPL-East finishes and region pool selections are relatively easy ways to tell how SC and clubs are doing. On the girls side, it feels as if CESA is making strides not just within SC [where they swept the state challenge cup in 2005-2006 -- perhaps a small accomplishment, but one that would never have been predicted before CESA was formed] but within RIIIPL-East and at tournaments such as Disney and CASL [before they stopped entering it this year.]

>>The intent is not to minimize anyone but to just be honest about the state's overall standing in the eyes of collegiate and Region III coaches that's passed around in meetings and coaching circles. <<

Is there any doubt that the "average" premier player in Georgia is better than the "average" premier player in SC? No. Is there any doubt that the "average" premier team in Georgia is better than the "average" premier team in SC? No. Is there any doubt that collegiate and Region III coaches know that? No. And while having 6 region pool players is a step up; it's far and away not competitive with Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia, or North Carolina.

However, here's the thing. I figure I can spend my time and energy helping only so many organizations be successful. If I have to choose who to help in South Carolina, where do start? SCYSA? Really? Tell me, you've got Steve Ballentine's job tomorrow but with the rest of the SCYSA BOD; what do you do to accelerate SC soccer? Make some rules prohibiting team composition to sub-state geographies to appease some of your constituent clubs? No...that's taking things in opposite direction.

To me, your best bet is to take your time and energy and spend it helping organizations accelerate who are already driving in the right direction. I've been highly complimentary of CESA on this message board as well as Bridge, and I'm working hard to be optimistic about CUFC. Because they have a history, CESA and Bridge certainly in my opinion deserve support -- CESA in raising its level of play in RIIIPL-East and Bridge in fielding teams and reaching out beyond just the low-country to serve players. [Note: This isn't a dig at CUFC -- it's just new and hasn't had a chance to prove anything yet.]

If you have other specific ideas, ideas that can be realized by something other than a bloodless coup on the SCYSA, I'd love to hear them.

Beezer,

We are a small state and will always be at a population disadvantage. So how do we get to where you want us to be, in terms of making an impact on the national level? Broaden the base or throw more resources at the top? Which end of the iceberg do you want to concentrate on?

If you want to work on the base.....you probably won't see the fruits of your labor for many years.

If you want to work the tip of the iceberg, tell Bridge FA and CUFC to roll into CESA and we will play with one club. Thanks for all you've done in the low country and midlands, pack your bags....we're going north. Tell mom & dad to gas up the SUV....and the kids can do their homework in the car during their 2+ hour commute each way.

Regarding the above post....I'm not ripping CESA or insinuating that they are trying to take over the state. I simply chose them as the "one club" in SC because of their history.....they continue to raise the bar.

I think it would be interesting to hear some Club visionaries share their thoughts on the direction of elite Club soccer. I don't mean us........

I mean people like the real movers and shakers behind CESA, Bridge, CUFC, etc. In an official setting.....not hidden behind aliases on a forum.

On one hand, who cares whether teams from our small state can compete with teams from Texas or Georgia on a regional / national level? Is that reallly what its all about, other than for a handful of hyper competitve people?

But is there something else at play? I'm sure the schools from the Big East and Conference USA were thinking along those lines before the ACC came calling on Miami, BC and Syracuse. The ripple effect of the ACC becoming either predatory or forward thinking (which view you hold to depends on your perspective)......was massive!!! The Big East was able to recover......but what happened to Conf USA?

The idea of the need for a single Club representing the elite players of our small state appears ludicrous. However.......If the focus is switching away from winning State Cup and focussing more on competing on a regional and national level, then the CESA's and Bridge's and CUFC's of the world have the choice of becoming prey or predator. Its that simple.

Is youth soccer heading the way of bigtime college conferences, which is survival of the fittest? Will we have the cuircumstances where if the top 6-10 SC kids per age group that CAN'T win on a regional level.....moving to play in a State that can (NC or GA) in order to do so.? And if you see that type of thing unfolding.....then the bigger Clubs need to grow and grow quickly in order to get ahead of the curve.

As someone driving that 2 hour commute (1-way) for every CESA practice, I can tell you that if your kid is really ambitious, it's worth it. This weekend she was able to play against Newberry and NKU (Northern Kentucky University, the #10 ranked DII school in the country last year) as a warmup to her team's RIIIPL-East season.

Been doing this for three years now. She does do her homework in the car; her GPA is pretty high -- I've always thought in part because the car can be a sensory deprivation zone to a teenager and she focuses hard on her homework.

Chico,

I was talking about 2 hours each way. I don't know how those Mt. Pleasant girls do it. Also, how did Newberry stack up vs. NKU, in your humble opinion?

I thought NCAA did not allow these games any more.... or was it only off-season?

Big,
Its obvious that not enough people care if SC competes regionally or nationally, cause we are so far away from that reality. I don't think those that care to be competitive with Texas and Georgia and OK clubs are 'hyper competitive.' They just see that SC soccer is going in a positive direction and they desire to strive to be the best they can be. And to be the best you can be involves a different approach than is currently in place. When some in this forum do express their desires to see SC soccer advance to the higher level status, there are the comments about excessive travel and commitment to a particular club, as well as some comments that High School ball cannot be bypassed for year-round training. Lets assume that we now have 3 big clubs (Bridge, CESA, CUFC) and that all have a somewhat serious desire to excel at the next level, i.e. regionally. If the talent continues to remain diluted and spread within those 3 or other number of clubs, we cannot field the best players in one club to compete at that next level. So.......what will get us to the level? Since one state team is not possible and would not be supported by SCYSA, it is up to one club to show the way. I believe it also involves 2 factors: recruiting the best to your club and year-round ball.
The majority of soccer in SC is still played at a socially satisfying level which is acceptable to parents. Often times it is the parents who prove to be a hindrance to the best development for their talented players.
It just comes down to choices that you can live with.
With the level of coaching in SC at the highest level I have seen it in 10 yrs. and the quality of facilities increasing each year, it is time to see if anyone wants to reach for the top.

>>[futbol(soccer)] I thought NCAA did not allow these games any more.... or was it only off-season?<<

The NCAA only disallows for Division I schools (if you look it up on the NCAA web site, you'll see only the Division I folks ever voted.); Division II and Division III schools are still permitted to play clubs.

>>[Hurst66] I was talking about 2 hours each way. I don't know how those Mt. Pleasant girls do it. Also, how did Newberry stack up vs. NKU, in your humble opinion?<<

Sorry...I didn't say it well. After I pick up my kid at school at 3:15PM, it takes until 5:15PM to get to practice.

I would think a kid living in Mount Pleasant would have a 4 hour drive there and a 4 hour drive back.

I'd think that the further away you are, the more it would be important that there are local training opportunities, both CESA supplied and other.

It's so early in the season that a fair comparison really isn't possible since I'm sure that the college coaches are experimenting and the players are learning to play with each other. However, I can tell you that it seemed to me [as a dumb soccer observer only] that NKU was much more physical while Newberry had much more speed.

striker,

does the market create an opportunity? or do visionaries create opportunity? Sometimes both.

my main point wasn't the success or lack of......that has characterized our state at the highest level. my point was......is someone working to address it? And I think they are.....in part because, if they don't.....people will have choices a year or 2 from now than they didn't a year or 2 ago. Simply winning a handful of State CUps won't be enough to hold your star players.....

So CESA, Bridge, etc.......have to grow, have to build alliances. If they do......they will become even more successful. if they do't.....the best players will go to Atlanta, Charlotte, Greensboro, etc.

U-15 Girls division is loaded. Some pretty decent teams attending:

http://www.atlcup.com/TTTeamList.aspx?tid=atlanta

Atlanta Cup schedules are out.

Bridge FA U-16 Boys in a very competitive bracket. Looking forward to seeing their match against Boca Gunners.

http://www.atlcup.com/TTOneSched.aspx?tid=atlanta&year=2006&div=U16M01

Discoveries U-16 Boys draw a team from Arkansas, a team from Alabama, and a team from Georgia. Are the Cobb FC Chiefs Gold the only one they are worrying about?

How does it look for DSC in Atlanta?

If anyone is interested in watching complete Ga. State Cup matches-
http://www.cornerkickshow.com/GYSAstatecup.html

I see that many area teams had success this weekend at Disney, Raleigh and Greensboro.....but was the competition in any of these tournaments better than what was on display at the Atlanta Cup?

>>[Hurst66] I see that many area teams had success this weekend at Disney, Raleigh and Greensboro.....but was the competition in any of these tournaments better than what was on display at the Atlanta Cup?<<

Well...it seems that each one is different. The Disney Qualifier is about qualifying for the Disney Showcase -- so it's a tournament with a completely different objective. It's hard to fault CUFC for attending en masse with the goal of trying to get most of their elite teams into the Showcase. If you take the Qualifier and Showcase together; the competition in my experience is much better than the Atlanta Cup.

The CASL Kick-Off is not a highly ranked tournament; it's by its own description more for second- and third-league teams in the various states. So I'd have to say the Atlanta Cup far transcends this one -- but they seemed aimed at a different market.

Finally, the Greensboro event. I can speak best to the age group I follow the most closely this year -- U18G -- and say that the competition uniformly seemed better. Between Greensboro and the strong Northern Virginia teams playing there wasn't a weak team in the bunch.

But best of all, these tournaments weren't the spread out discombobulated mess that the Atlanta Cup so often is and because they are by their nature smaller didn't suffer from the inconsistencies and poor logistics Atlanta is so well known for. Personally...I sure didn't miss attending the Atlanta Cup this year.

Congrats to Hurst......whose daughter's team won the second flight of U13 girls in Atlanta!!!

Atlanta tournament was spread out again as usual. Our bracket games and semi-finals were 15 miles north of downtown while the championship game on Monday was 45 miles south of downtown. Fields were very good and competition was excellent. Changing hotels on Sunday was an experience but the tournament people got us an excellent rate of $89 at the airport Hilton. Saw lots of Jerry's Kids all over the hotel as this facility was hosting Atlanta's MDA Telethon.

I am sure if someone(Chico) were to do a detailed statistical analysis (with key lime pie charts) comparing the Disney Qualifier teams v. Atlanta Cup teams, it would indicate that Atlanta fielded the far stronger teams. Most of the Qualifier teams are 2nd & 3rd tier Fla. teams. Very few out-of-state teams.
We went to Atlanta 3 years, and sure its kinda a hassle if you advance to finals to relocate. And the fields are spread out, but its a big tournament in a big city. Its not as convenient as tournaments in smaller markets, but the competition is much higher. However, still not on par with Surf Cup, Dallas Cup, Score at, Jefferson Cup, Tampa or CASL.

2004striker: I don't disagree with your overall assessment; but would again stress that the Disney Qualifier should really be judged only as a "front-end" for the Disney Showcase. As such, a club or team [e.g., CUFC] making the decision to go to the Disney Qualifer rather than the Atlanta Cup is an attempt to ultimately play a higher level of competition [i.e., in the Disney Showcase].

What I think is great about CUFC attending the Disney Qualifier is that it showed the ambition to try to get its teams into the Disney Showcase. As you know, the Disney Showcase selection committee is very, very tough [I'm still amazed that the Bridge U16B team got turned down], particularly for South Carolina teams, and thus going to the Disney Qualifier was a way for CUFC to attempt to "jump-start" its teams into one of the most elite tournaments.

While I don't like the past litigious nature of CUFC, and I was worried when there were rumors about their not letting some kids tryout for the club, limiting practice sessions to twice a week, and the like, I think it's important to call out when clubs seem to be trying to do the right thing.

I concur that the Qualifier can provide greater benefits for a team, once a team does qualify. If you look at the 2005 U18 boys brackets, even the lowest Copa brackets had stronger teams than the top Atlanta Cup teams-

http://www.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=377&Sex=Boys&Age=18

I guess I was looking at more immediate tournament challenges for CUFC, rather than the ultimate, possible award of making the Disney Showcase.