SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP High School Soccer: Hurt or Help?

I've always seen high school athletics as an extra-curricular activity and an extension of the physical education program.

Relatively harmless unless you introduce steroids or the recruiting of children from outside the district boundaries for the sole purpose of playing sports.

Drats!!!!!!!!!! Once again I spent a good 30 mins preparing a masterpiece reply to this issue. I go to post it and it says the form is no longer available....everything lost..
It must be the HS soccer Gods conspiring against me!! But I will post this article that went with my fabulous epistle.


Soccer clubs provide assists
Teams help players improve their skills
By ANTHONY WITRADO
awitrado@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Aug. 5, 2006
Soccer is the pioneer.

People in the sport were among the first to develop club programs outside of schools. They were meant to give kids, from 8 to 18 years old in most cases, a chance to play once their school seasons ended.

Sports like basketball and volleyball followed and now have club programs more nationally renowned than those of some high schools. Today, club soccer is that kind of beast. Like the sports it preceded, playing outside of school has become an important part of kids' soccer lives, especially once they are high school age.

"From our end, it has been really important for the kids in our program," says Pete Knezic, coaching director for FC Milwaukee, one of the state's best club programs. "We go to some of the premier events, and there will be hundreds of college coaches on the sidelines. That is the big selling point for those tournaments."

And the allure of club soccer.

At the inception of this phenomenon, playing away from a school team might have been a nice way to stay sharp during the off-season. Now the emphasis has dramatically changed.

College scholarships are at stake.

Wisconsin Youth Soccer state director of leagues David Flanagan says "for the top-level player, 95 percent" of their recruitment happens during the club season. Flanagan, who had been an assistant varsity coach at Oconomowoc, has been a club coach for 16 years.

"Very few Division I coaches come to high school games because they are not seeing the competition," he says. "The big difference is in high school soccer, every coach is hiding two or three players (in the lineup) who may not be at that level. On club, you have 11 strong players and four or five subs, with no drop-off."

That plateau of talent at club showcases and tournaments, like in basketball and volleyball, is what draws college coaches. It is much more appetizing to make a single trip to see hundreds of players with next-level talent than to make several trips to see a handful of recruitable players.

Youth soccer Web sites even send out e-mails or post national tournament schedules to help college coaches plan their whirlwind tours.

The Wisconsin Youth Soccer state leagues consist of 14 games, with Premier and First divisions. The bottom two teams of the Premier division fall to the First and are replaced by the First division's top two teams, similar to European leagues. Most club seasons in Wisconsin for the elite teams last about 60 games, including leagues and tournaments.

Many clubs in Wisconsin still push kids to play at their high school since club teams shut down during the school season. However, that is not the case on the East and West coasts, where some players skip their high school season because their club commitments are year-round, according to Marti Coan, the Midwest high school girls representative for the National Soccer Coaches Association of America. She also was the girls coach at Oshkosh North for 12 years.

A major criticism of club basketball is the lack of quality coaching. The thought is the best coaches are at high schools, not on the club circuit.

The opposite is true in soccer, where club coaches are required by the United States Soccer Federation to be educated and licensed according to the level they coach at.

"Club soccer is definitely getting stronger than high school soccer because of the education and licensing," Coan says. "The better coaching is coming from club, because high schools don't require anything of their coaches."

Says Flanagan: "We're trying to teach these guys to be better prepared to deal with the complexities of soccer, fitness and even nutrition. It's a constant upgrade. We teach them that we're working with the whole kid, not a part of them."

Also unlike most club basketball teams, players usually have to pay to play club soccer, a cost that can be more than $1,000 a year for the teams that travel most - basketball teams are typically fully sponsored. There are fund-raisers, sponsors and boosters to help absorb the costs, and scholarships are available for players who qualify.

That allows players from different income brackets and backgrounds to compete against the best.

"The best players are playing with club teams against suitable competition," Flanagan says. "You're seeing what kids can do against players that are some of the best in the country."

From the Aug. 6, 2006 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

Having a "good" high school coach doesn't mean you have more top level players. He can be Lippi, Capello or Scolari but he won't make more players more serious or more ready to be a top level talent. I know some high school coaches who are very good but that doesn't equate to more top level players to play with.

Being able to play both club and high school at the same time is not an answer because, physically and psychologically, the better players will not be 100% when they arrive to training. Again, the club environment should be the best with the best at 100%.

The point is, again, development to be a better soccer country! The best players playing as much as possible to give the United States a chance to improve on the world stage.

Maybe an average MLS player like Brian Kelly, who represented his country at some point at the youth level, would have been more prepared to ever make an actual impact at the full National Team level, where it counts, and help achieve a result if he used 3-4 months for four years playing a higher level year-round. If youth National Team players are giving 3-4 months to high school then maybe that explains our stellar history.

There's just no way soccer within the educational system, high school AND college, helps the development of players. Too many restrictions of 1) time allowed to play and matches and 2) the amount of top level players.

Beezer,

If a player like Brian Kelly wants to make an impact on the full National Team level, or on the major professional level, perhaps the best path would have been to sign with Sunderland or FC Cologne right out of high school? Pretty difficult for an 18-year old American kid to say not to full rides from UVA, Notre Dame and Duke.

Perhaps Chico and purple would like to enter back into the discussion on the merits of higher education?

Some further discussion on this issue-
http://www.soccercoachinginternational.com/index.php?page=forum&forumpage=showtopic&tid=1872

higher education is wonderful—for those who want/need it—but it is NOT a universal need of all—many young athletes in europe go straight into "pro" sports at high school ages—as an educator i have watched way too many young people suffer under our universal "norm" of what every single young person should do while ignoring that one thing those young people KNEW they wanted in life—from sports to art to working on cars—i think the false sports/acadmic connection in higher ed is wrong also—again—the two have nothing to do with each other—using sports to lure people into higher ed hurts both education and sports—

william faulkner, f. scott fitzgerald (to name a couple) both dropped out of higher ed because it was wasting their time—they KNEW they were writers—

Beezer, I appreciate your perspective and am certainly glad that you have joined this forum. Really good discussions!

Having a "good" high school coach doesn't mean you have more top level players. He can be Lippi, Capello or Scolari but he won't make more players more serious or more ready to be a top level talent. I know some high school coaches who are very good but that doesn't equate to more top level players to play with.

Does having a “good” college coach make more players more serious or more ready to be a top level talent? Do you think Clint Mathis and Josh Wolff became “more serious or more ready to be a top level talent” by playing at the University of South Carolina? How about Clint Dempsey at Furman University, Oguchi Onyewu at Clemson University, or Boyzz Khumalo at Coastal Carolina University?

Does having a “good” club coach make more players more serious or more ready to be a top level talent? How many South Carolinians play professionally? There are a couple of handfuls concerning men’s players. How about women? Any ladies from the Palmetto State in a professional league? Are there any prospects of a viable professional women’s soccer league? Isn’t college soccer for females kind of the end-all unless you are good enough to play at the National Team level? Again, how many and who are from S.C.? How many are from anywhere? Are the “club coaches” responsible for this achievement? High school coaches? Collegiate coaches?

Being able to play both club and high school at the same time is not an answer because, physically and psychologically, the better players will not be 100% when they arrive to training. Again, the club environment should be the best with the best at 100%.

Best for who? The 50 or so players state-wide capable of this level of play? How about the other 5,000 high school players? Should soccer just stop because they aren’t included in “the best”? I know plenty of club soccer teams that are “club” in name only, but they certainly do not constitute “the best” players or coaches.

I agree to some extent, but this is the United States and things are different here – for better or worse. This isn’t a Third World country where soccer is the “great escape”. The educational system is where the majority will realize that escape and collegiate soccer can be a means to achieve that end. Now then, it’s a much better proposition for women’s soccer, because of the extra scholarships available, but it’s also the plateau for women’s soccer – there’s not much after that in this country and if it is, then it’s for a very small number.

The point is, again, development to be a better soccer country! The best players playing as much as possible to give the United States a chance to improve on the world stage.

In my opinion, you are talking about 1% of the soccer players in this state – and anywhere else for that matter. Is the goal of every “serious soccer player” to achieve a National Team or Regional Team status? I think not – at least not in my experience of being involved in soccer in this state the past 30 years. Most of them want to make themselves better so that they can help their teams – club, high school, six-a-side, 3v3, etc., be the best they can. By becoming their best individually, they make the whole that much better. Can individual acclaim come from this measure? Absolutely! Maybe that player gets to play college soccer at a DIII school, while concentrating on academics and soccer as an a-side. Perhaps they realize that at the DII or NAIA level where soccer/academics co-exist. Or, for the few an opportunity exists at the D1 level where that student-athlete has actually been recruited to continue their soccer experience.

Maybe an average MLS player like Brian Kelly, who represented his country at some point at the youth level, would have been more prepared to ever make an actual impact at the full National Team level, where it counts, and help achieve a result if he used 3-4 months for four years playing a higher level year-round. If youth National Team players are giving 3-4 months to high school then maybe that explains our stellar history.

My thoughts are that if Brian Kelly was truly good enough to make the leap to the National Team level, then he should have pursued another avenue to attain that goal. Do what Danny Karbassiyoon and Jonathan Spector did and that was to showcase their talents at “elite level” camps and to perform well enough to sign professional contracts with Arsenal and Manchester United, respectively.

There's just no way soccer within the educational system, high school AND college, helps the development of players. Too many restrictions of 1) time allowed to play and matches and 2) the amount of top level players.

I agree there are too many restrictions – well stated. But, you have to crawl before you walk and the United States may have reached adolescence in the soccer world (men’s team anyway, the women’s squad has been an “old lady” for years . :D

>>there is also no connection between school and lunch—BUT we don't stop failing kids in school from eating—so that comparison fails—sorry—we do stop failing kids from playing sports—just because one can make an analogy doesn't mean the analogy fits—<<

Please don't be sorry...you're trying to raise points in an interesting discussion. School lunch (and breakfasts) are government-subsidized activities for some portion of our children -- just as education is -- and just as high school sports are. That's the analogy. I understand that you might not like the analogy...and I understand that an analogy isn't the same thing as a "model" in which all aspects of a relationship are tested; but the simple fact is that many justify schools providing meals as linked to education -- and the argument is similarly made that you can link exercise and education.

[freire is (present tense used for the timeless aspect of his ideas and writing) for universal public education—not school choice—FYI]<<

You're having fun with me, right? Universal public education doesn't run counter with to the concept of equalizing the playing field by allowing the poor the same privilege of choosing their schools as we currently allow the rich. Any good Marxist should understand that!

>>[purpleandyellow] william faulkner, f. scott fitzgerald (to name a couple) both dropped out of higher ed because it was wasting their time—they KNEW they were writers—<<

Okay...this is fun...I love anecdotal stuff. Bill Gates also dropped out. He did okay.

So did Fred and Tony; the two guys that asked me last night for a dollar so that they could buy some wine before bedding down at the mission. I guess they'd have told me that they KNEW that education was a waste of time for them as well.