SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP Where are the refs?

I see there is an e-mail out there today from Steve Cothran alerting everyone of a referee shortage this weekend and asking for help in Columbia. I also heard that last weekend in Charleston, some of the girls tournament games were officiated by only one referee.

Do we have a crisis on our hands?

league games were cancelled on Sunday at Summerville due to ref shortage...We had one game where we only had two refs at the showcase

I believe the answer is yes.....

in the fall many of the players who are also refereeing are not because of games and quite frankly the attitude of parents/coaches/players. Truth is referee quality is not always there.

I would have the following rules for officials

1- There is nothing written anywhere that states you must explain your call, therefore you made the call ...move on. (if you made a mistake hey ...you are human)
2- no official is to talk to parents on the sidelines ...before, during and after the game.
3- no official is to talk to players during the game unless it has to do with the play at the moment (i.e warnings, etc.). Talking to players creates problems.
4- SCYSA shall a have a report card for officials provided by the coaches after the game and submit to the SC referee association. Each referee will then get a letter grade along with their certification and then can be assigned to the proper matches.
the report card should include 5 areas with a score of 1 to 5
A- officials on time with proper attire 1......5
B- Center official
kept up with play (physical) - 1.........5
consistent - 1......5 (this one is very subjective)
C- AR
kept up with play (physical) - 1.........5
consistent - 1......5 (this one is very subjective)
D- Officials refrained from engaging
coaches - 1........5
spectators - 1......5
players - 1......5 (other than normal game requirements)

Knowledge of the game must be imparted by assesment/education via the SC referee association.

U16 to U18 challenge level play should have the best officials available for the game, who are able to keep up with play. The referee assignor should take this in consideration.

Lastly you have what you have and you have to make lemonade with the lemons, therefore encourage officials by providing the feedback necessary. A pat in the back when a good job is done is as important as a kick in the pants.

futbol, I feel your pain.......but we are hurting for warm bodies and you want to impose higher standards? I know the kids deserve better but we need to find a way to get mommy and daddy off the sidelines. How do we get them a whistle and a flourescent shirt? How about the immigrants that grew up with the game....and know the game? Can't we identify them and offer them the chance to earn a few bucks while getting some exercise?

And somehow this grading scale is to produce more and better referees?

I agree there is an issue, and you have summarized one aspect of it very well, in the fact that many of the "youth" referees play in the fall. What you've also done however is take what was a legitimate question, and now turn it to a referee quality discussion again. Perhaps if all of those expert referees from the sidelines would get certified and help, we would have no issues in either quantity or quality.

It's a numbers game. With each club hosting tournaments as fund raisers, inviting out of town teams, the assignors job gets difficult. From the state perspective, it would be better to have the best referees at games where out of state teams are involved, ie tournaments and RIII. This then however depletes the various state leagues. Just like people are trying to increase the numbers of players, so should the numbers of referees.

Finally, most referees are encouraged to ask for and receive "constructive" feedback, both positive and negative. To date, I've only had 1 coach be able to provide what I have considered constructive negative feedback at the end of the match, both in tone and demeanor. Until we get away from it's okay for coaches or parents to provide a "kick in the pants", the referee shortage will not end.

I guess it could read as higher standards.... I am suggesting a feedback loop with current officials so that the association can identify areas of improvement. Secondly there is no mechanism (to my knowledge) for SCYSA to hear/work on a complaint

see this thread link

As far as immigrants, I think many are officiating, but being an immigrant does not make you knowledgeable of the game. Mom and Dad will not do it because they are mom and dad and want to see johnny/susie play. The cost for officials has gone up and potentially needs to go up more to entice others to join.

Lastly... recruit, where you ask???

SC is blessed with having numerous college/universities with thosand of students that need money. Where else can you make as a student $20/hr (avg) tax free.

ref 5 games on Saturday and you have $100 of spending money

To me this is a great untapped resource.

All individuals, regardless of nationality,etc., are afforded the opportunity to become certified refs. The numbers issue is a critical one, and some of that comes from an apprehension or reluctance to spend weekends receiving little respect and a lot of grief for their efforts on the field. Most of us like to do things we can enjoy and maybe, possibly be appreciated just a bit for being out there, while making a few dollars. Some refs, for sure, should either be weeded out or placed where they can do the least amount of harm. Mom and Dad can still ref other games, and you can do a few games or a lot. Its a very flexible job. The nature of the ref job, in any sport, has never been an easy nor respected one. But somebody has to do it, or no games can be played. Here is YOUR chance, right now to help with this issue so our game can be the best it can be: http://www.scref.org/Referees/Main%20Page.htm

futbol,

Excellent point about the college players.....but in the fall, most SC schools have matches on either Saturday or Sunday. We definitely need to get them out on their "off" day, as well as in the spring.

One possibility of alleviating some of the clusters of games on weekends would be to play club soccer matches during the actual week. Many of the larger clubs have lighted fields and such and at the older levels (U16-18) players could carpool and caravan together. I've never understood why the club soccer regimes have mandated weekend-only play -- it really cuts out the opportunities, especially if they are local games involved.

Also, in regards to collegiate students getting out and "giving back" to the sport while making some pretty decent money -- chances are they would be more apt to do a weeknight gig instead of sacrificing a treasured weekend.

my daughter is refing 2 days a week for the city rec league.she could do 4 or 5 days but her soccer gets in the way of that.she does some u- 12 and the parents are not to bad because it is rec.the other days is the little kids and she has fun with them.the little ones play 4 -10 min quarters and about a 5 min half.when you get paid anywhere from 13 to 15 bucks for the 45 mins of work you are doing ok at 14.seems like a few more kids would get involved.
im not sure i would want to ref older club kids and its not because of the kids.

fair enough..either weeken or weekday is good, but Hurst I was not thinking aboout the actual college players I was thinking about the ones that are no longer playing after HS, they would be available. tax free 20/hr beat McDonalds all day long.

Weekday games make sense if they're (at least reasonably) local. Charleston kids would have a hard time playing a night game in Greenville on a Wednesday night and make it back for school the next day.

Weekday games would not work for parents, exactly because of homework/school issues. And in the spring you have HS games during the week. But maybe parents would go for it if not much travel involved. That way they would have a free Sat. without soccer every now and then.

To have rules about officials not being able to talk to players, coaches and parents is ridiculous. Believe me, most refs I know would love to go through a game without having to speak to any of them. Unfortunately, because a lot of them don't know how to behave in public it becomes a necessity. Officials only react to things that are done or said to them where coaches and parents are concerned. If they would keep their mouths shut it wouldn't be an issue.
But the title of this thread says it all. We are losing officials because of obnoxious behavior from parents, coaches and players. Deal with that appropriately and it will improve. But to suggest that they just take it without responding if it is out of hand is stupid, in view of the fact that one of the reasons for the shortage is that very thing.

futbol......agree, ex-HS and ex-club players in college would be prime candidates.

40......It's great that your daughter is "giving back" and enjoying herself and making a few bucks, but at 14, her time would be better spent training and playing. We should have enough people out there to do the job so that we don't have to rely on using 14 year old girls.

Bazza......good to hear from you, where you been? Never got your comments on this tragedy!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s34w8k00ifk

Interesting article: How to Keep Fans Out of Your Head

Coach P...excellent article... it should be a requirement at all referee courses.

Bazza...unfortunately I routinely run into "what I mean and what I wrote may not be the same thing".

What do I mean by not talking???

I find that historically the game starts getting out of hand, when the referee starts focusing in things other than the game. This leads to talking to fans, coaches, players. I especially do not like trying to explain the call, because "the call" was not what you liked, "the explanation" will also be not what you liked. Therefore the call is automatically wrong and the ref is a moron.

The referee needs to keep control, I agree... for the better of the game. A smart aleck remark (as in the article) will invite a smart aleck remark back...etc.

At any DECIDED game whether you make all the right calls or all the wrong calls, 50% of the people will leave happy. It has nothing to do with you, it has everything to do with the outcome. Therefore, call what you see, stay in shape, stay up-to-date on the rules and do the best you can.

My last word on this.... after refereeing 2-3 games in a row, you get tired both physically and mentally. You are expected to stay focused in the very next game and make all the right calls. Not easy to do, as in the article, keep asking why you are there.

Great discussion ... thanks for participating...

I disagree with the comment about ref's not talking to parents. Last February my daughter was playing a torunament in Savannah. Before the match the ref came over to the sidelines introduced himself to the parents and asked if we had any questions before we got started. He was very nice and welcomed our team to the area and told a couple of jokes. He said that if there were any bad calls that it would be the line judge Ralph's fault. He did the same thing with the other team. It was a very close match and very physical, but the parents stayed absolutely quiet except for kidding about Ralph's bad calls occassionally. He had personalized himself to the parents and no one wanted to be rude to someone they now knew. At half time he even came over and asked if we had any questions. One parent asked about an off sides call. He explained the rule and why the player was not off sides. He again reminded all of us that if there were anymore bad calls that it would be Ralph's fault. Ralph played his part perfectly - he just smiled and nodded. It was a wonderful experience and as you can tell has stuck with me.

hurst i think training 3 days a week and playing games on the weekend is enough.im glad she is able to make a little money while being involved in something she loves.
maybe a few of you that like looking up stats can compare how many teams on all levels are in the state now compared to 3 or 5 years ago.maybe its not that we have less refs but we have out grown them.

bamr1 i think we had the same ref a few weeks ago down there.he was an older man and no one ever said anything about his calls.he joked with the parents from both sides the whole game.

I think one of the main problems is that more than half of the league games are played in Columbia. Not just Columbia area teams, but Coastal teams and Piedmont teams meeting in Columbia. Also, the games are now being scheduled by the coaches so that there is no one looking at the schedule from an overall perspective and spreading out the games.

Hurst66:
Nice to hear from you. I've beem here and there and everywhere!! That's probably the best goal Gary Neville will ever score for England!!

Two Points: My teenager would like to referee more on off days but is often not assigned. Also, based on the recert. calendar will have a hard time getting 2007 license since the dates occur during State Cup and school holiday weekends. Last year we drove two hours to get the recertification.

Sports,
If he is not assigned he should contact his Assignor on a frequent basis. The re-cert clinics are offered throughout the year -http://www.scref.org/Referees/Calendar.htm

My daughter had the same problem. Got certified and had to buy an officials uniform, whistle, etc. and didn't even get assigned enough to make her investment back.

Here is a list of all the state assignors. E-mail or call them. http://www.scref.org/Referees/Assignors.htm

Yes, we are registered under www.arbiter.net and have even responded to calls for refs. After buying a quality red ref shirt this season, we are back in the hole. Why should we have to contact the assignor frequently if we're on the list?

I was at the Mt Pleasant Showcase this weekend and started at least two top flight U18 games with only two referees and one with a club line who also was the field marshall.

Where are the referees? gone to do other things especially the young referees that start early. They are now dating or dong other activities that involve friends or they have other jobs where they do not get verbal abuse from the customers.

As for talking to parents, coaches and players. A good referee will talk to players throughout the match. And they should do this. Often by talking they can keep the match under control without the use of cards.

As for parents I know a referee the almost always introduces himself to the parents and tells them that everyone at the game is there for the players on the field. That they should positively support their team. He gives his name and lets them know that it is not moron idiot or any other name they have call referees in the past. He also tells them to call him by name but no matter what they yell he has never changed a call because of a parent yelling. He thanks them for coming and lets them know that he will work hard to give the players a well refereed game.

I think by doing this it sets the tone of the game.

Not sure that I really answered the question but I try to get out myself and do as much as possible but I do like to watch my childern play.

sports,
I believe in the direct approach. The assignors already know a lot of the refs and what they can and cannot do. I would be very direct in an e-mail or phone call that your daughter has taken the step to become certified and you expect her to now receive assignments so she can become experienced. Younger refs are desparately needed cause a lot of the refs are getting old.

Is there a site where all referrees are listed. Per state?

Okay...so in reading all of this, a reasonable person (or even me!) comes to the following thoughts:

We have a referee issue. Reasons:

1) There aren't enough referees in total.
2) There aren't enough referees available when games are played.
3) Assignors aren't doing their job.

Several questions:

a) Anything I'm missing?

b) To get more referees and referees available, don't you just pay more (e.g., supply and demand)? If you can't get a referee for a game, or you need an "emergency" referee, can't you handle that in your pay structure?

c) Doesn't this whole "assignor" thing scream out for a simple web-based application or is it more complicated than that?

Soccersmylife, I don't know of a web page that lists all referees. However, at USSoccer.com under the referee tab you can get e-mail addresses for all state referee administrators.

Chico, several people are using the Arbiter system. Thing is it's kind of being district run, meaning, there is a group for the low country, a group for the upstate, and I don't know if mid state is using one or not. It's a league/tournament choice who assigns their respective matches.

It's not enough to go and get the training, and sit back and wait for the call. You have to know who assigns what, and work through it. In the Charleston area, there are basically 4 assignors that can get all the matches you ever need, rec, classic, challenge, tournaments, and HS (which is a separate certification).

The list of USSF certified referee assignors in SC can be found here.

A referee assignors' clinic is required for certification. The materials used in this course can be found here, along with materials for other referee training courses.

Thanks Comet.....I was just wondering exactly how many certified ref's do we (SC) have.

I have heard several teenage boys get their's , ref a few games and then quit due to the abuse they take from parents on the sidelines. It is ashame.

I wish I was physically fit that I could do it but with a bum knee I could not run the line. Reminds me of the ref's we had last weekend for RIII in Augusta.