SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP CESA website

Great new look for the CESA website...
http://www.carolinaelitesc.com/

It needs to be centered on the page, and not promote that they have won a majority (81%) of the state cups since its inception. Its not politically correct to promote in that manner and gives 'everyone else' an inferiority complex.

I was hoping that a T-shirt might be made available.

A t-shirt would be quite rude, and probably banned by a Special SCYSA committee on infractions.

I think posting the 81% state cup success rate is politically correct—If they would add "Yo Mamma!"—then THAT would be politically incorrect—:)

I fully expect a complaint to be filed soon with SCYSA. That image of the soccer balls comparison is an illegal recruiting ploy. It reeks of outrageous success and exceptional oppotunities for those players who unwittingly give into the grand CESA plot to produce regionally successful teams. This must be stopped or SC club soccer will become well known in Oklahoma, Texas and even on the continent of Florida.

Striker

In reply to your sarcastic conspiracy theory of an effort to restrict CESA in their pursuit of regional recognition i think you will find that a club in SC has already achieved this.
Aiken- whose Fire team of a few years ago made it to the nationals on more than one occasion.

I guess we should just have one club in SC (cesa) let all the players play there and see if we can get regional recognition then. Hey we could even get a t-shirt that said CESA all state championships everyone else 0.

The way to grow the skill level of SC youth soccer is not for one club to try and engulf all others. It is to promote soccer to the masses of kids at age 4 and 5. Encourage coaches to gain licensure and education and to provide a sense of loyalty and integrity within the each club and more importantly the game. Then when these kids are 13 they will have a love and understanding of soccer. Lets try and keep the coaches coaching and not recruiting. The reason CESA has won many of its cups is due to the fact the better kids are enticed to go there by coaches/parents and players.
The most current example is the u14 boys divison. Last year Tega Cay u13 finished 2nd in the cup thus qualifiing them for region 3 play. That was until their best players miraculously appeared on the much travelled Nick Finottis CESA team. Tega Cay, after having been much weakened by this, have withdrawn from their spot in R3P. My point to this is that the coach of tega cay had down a great job with limited numbers only for it to be in vain. SC would be much better served by having coaches like him develop local talent in a loyal enviroment that would create a challenging state wide league not made up of 3 clubs.
The coaches are out there. In fact CESA actually does not have the most highly qualified coaches. That accolade goes To Columbia United who has more A and B licensed coahes then anyone else.
The key to advancing the level of SC youth soccer is to start young and coach the kids up. We need to encourage coaches who love the game not the $.

has everyone now gone to the cesa web site and crashed it.

So gamecock, I take it that you will not be interested in a CESA T-shirt when they are available?

Gamecock44 - "In fact CESA actually does not have the most highly qualified coaches. That accolade goes To Columbia United who has more A and B licensed coahes then anyone else."

You're kidding right? You really believe that? Oh wait a sec, you do!??! BTW what size t-shirt would you like? XXXXL so you can fit all that ingnorance into it????

CESA just served me a search warrant to rummage through my house for any kids aged 5-9 for their prussian army. Can they do that?

Yes, legally they can. The CESA Kid Squad usually stuffs the kids in big Red croaker sacks until they get them to one of their various training fields, then dumps them out for CESA indoctrination.

steve- check your stats before you become personally insulting.

Good thing they are not in the low country. My boys are safe for now!

Hey...if you turn the volume up on your computer's speakers....do you hear a faint chant in the background??? similar to the friday the 13th movies...

CE CE CE.... SA SA SA.....

I hear a chain saw, but I am old and my hearing is not what it once was.

gmcock44,
Look, my purpose was not to insult, and if you were offended that was not the intent. It was only to offer that a "license" is a base-line level of knowledge that one possesses. As noted on this message board 1000+ times, just b/c you have a certain level of licensure...doesn't make you a "quality" coach. But, I'm not going to get into that discussion again either. Bottom line, they (cufc) can have all the licenses they want...what they don't have is the results. Unfortunately, you can't argue with 81% not matter how you slice it. Finally, kudos to the webmaster for the CESA site. Also have a look at the www.bridgefa.com site too... not to shabby!

No.......its not a chain saw.....I hear it now...... its from ..........................................
Poltergeist II: The Other Side ......'They're back'.... and then a low whirling noise of a Big Red space ship and Red creatures carrying big Red croaker sacks..........

LOL

Gamecock,
Two questions. 1)Where do you see the CUFC coaches listed with their licenses.

2)Didn't the old Aiken teams have players from Columbia,Aiken, Augusta, and Atlanta. Doesn't this run against your logic.

Steve,

Just out of curiosity, could you produce the facts on the A license coaches at CUFC? Not being rude, but just curious.

I'm not sure about Gamecock44's statement that CUFC has more A&B licenses than anyone else, but here is the list as of last May, I believe. Some of the coaches may have upgraded their licenses since then.

I'll probably start another thread to discuss gamecock44's post in a bit more detail; however, what's interesting to me is that many of the participants in this type of discussion seem blind to their own club's behavior while hyper-sensitive to other club's behavior. (Note: Coach P, I'm not referring to you on this -- you simply pointed out some facts.)

When a player moves from a club to CESA, then CESA is guilty of "illegal recruiting" or something. When a player moves to CUFC, then the player made a choice.

When CUFC talks on its web site about its victories and the number of teams winning state cups and the like, that's okay; but when CESA does it then that's a crime against humanity.

Regarding A and B licenses, if CUFC coaches have more than CESA then I think that CUFC should be congratulated. Licensing is an important factor in trying to raise the baseline qualifications associated with coaching.

To be consistent, however, I thought that Governor Hodges and the Inez Tennenbaum were missing the boat when they built a compensation scheme around licensing teachers. I'm all for merit-based pay, but I'd rather see us test students at the beginning of a school year, test them at the end of the school year, and award merit to teachers who raise the scores the most. To put it back into the context of soccer, I care more about the results than I do licensing.

Again, however, let me make this clear -- if CUFC has more A and B licensed coaches than CESA (or Bridge, or anyone else) then they are to be congratulated.

Treasure of the Sierra Madre/Blazing saddles

"All right," Steve shouted back. "if you are the coaches, where are your badges? Lets see them"

Chico stands up and says..."Badges?" (pronounced BATCHES) I don't need no stinkin badges"

Chico, some kids don't test well.

p&y, please chime in.

Hurst66: That's why I believe in merit-based pay based on the delta between entry and exit tests.

Coach P: Last night, I was talking to someone about media bias. What interests me so much isn't the obvious cases of bias but rather the interpretation of bias when the situation isn't clear.

I understand, and respect, your feeling that "Everybody Else" shouldn't be called out. I understand, and respect, the feeling of the Lexington and CRSA club parents that billboards proclaiming that the two best clubs have merged aren't appropriate. I understand, and respect, the feeling that specific teams shouldn't call out what teams they defeated on their web sites. I understand, and respect, the private messages I get saying that challenge teams shouldn't compete for classic cups. And so on...

In every one of these cases -- and I mean every one -- I think that the good of promoting youth soccer and taking pride in one's club far outweighs those that want a more "politically correct" statement of accomplishment.

Then again, I probably am biased more toward libertarianism than authoritarianism -- so this is my bias at work!

Post deleted by soccer40

Chico,
My comment concerning a 'politically correct promotion' of CESA's successes was another one of my very poor attempts at biting sarcastic wit. I am all for CESA promoting, in whatever fashion they desire, their spectacular accomplishments to date. And in the spirit of competitiveness and club pride CESA has the right to display the comparison of us v. the rest. Maybe the rest need to be awakened from their soccer slumber and work harder to be more competitive club-wide within the state.

Very effective illustration - you know the club's priorities right up front.

One interesting thing in looking at the Bridge, CESA, and CUFC web sites is that Bridge and CUFC went with Demosphere. I think that Carolina FC in Spartanburg also went with Demosphere. Several years ago, when I last looked at Demosphere, I thought it cost on the order of $1000+ per month which I thought was a little high even though the technology was nice.

Is anyone in the state using Blue Sombrero? I think these guys do the CASL web site (among others.)

I forgot who SCYSA went with but remember from the SCYSA meeting notes that it seemed like they had a good bit budgeted for the web site as well. Then again, the SCYSA did a great thing in also moving to the electronic publications which I believe was costing them something on the order of $30K per year -- so whatever they spent on the new web site seems worth it given the lack of quality of the old one and the electronic newsletter format.

Anyone out there know if that's correct or if my memory is (once again) failing me?

The new website looks great. Up to date and very informative. The "red & black balls" versus the "white & black balls" is a very creative illustration and really hammers home the point. Does it elicit a negative reaction from other clubs? Does CESA care? I don't know.

Picture this. On a "down year", another SCYSA club team beats a CESA team for the state cup championship. The winning team goes wild on the field. Players are bouncing up and down on the CESA logo at the center circle. The parents run to the goals and tear down the nets. The team gathers beneath the scoreboard for a team picture under the scoreboard which reads Us 1, CESA 0.

How do the CESA parents, coaches and administrators react? Do they say "look at those @$$holes...jumping up and down like fools."? Do they become angry? Are they upset at this display which they may interpret as being "anti-CESA"? Is the winning club out of bounds for acting like they just won the World Cup?

Seems to me that a lot of clubs will take satisfaction in knocking off Big Red. CESA, by the very acronym of the three words that now appear at the bottom of their new logo, is the 900 pound gorilla.

And everybody gets a kick out of it when David slays Goliath.

Hurst66: From what I understand, we're already living in your scenario. I was told that when the CESA U16G team lost in the state championship, that the behavior ran along the same lines as your description. That's not a criticism of any other club; I just think that the victory is "extra sweet" when it's against CESA. I was also at some younger games this year in challenge league where CESA was beaten by a South Carolina team and you'd have thought that the team had just won the world cup.

As you say, I think it's natural for most people to cheer for the underdog. I never have -- I've always cheered for the team I perceived as working harder in practice and in games (note: another of my biases is that I love hard-working character-oriented people/teams more than relatively less hard-working people/teams.) But I think I'm in the minority on this.

In any case, I personally think it's smart of CESA to do what the other clubs do and promote their success. The fact is that in South Carolina right now CESA typically is the target for other teams/clubs. CESA trying to ignore that fact won't make it go away. And while there is added pressure on CESA due to the attention, it's a relatively small thing versus what their ambitions truly are -- to be consistently ranked as a top national team.

I'm hoping that here in the Columbia area that CUFC will continue to promote itself (e.g., web site, billboards, etc.) as club for elite players. I hope that CRSA and LCSC will continue to promote their results for their top teams in challenge league play. I hope that CESA-Columbia will continue to grow their relationship with SOAR and other recreation clubs to get more kids involved in soccer. And I hope Lower Lexington just increasingly grows!

Chico,

I agree 100%. All successful competitive clubs toot their own horn and promote their own acheivements because there's no one else to do it for them. It's the nature of the beast.

When Nick Finotti had his run at Northwestern his team (and school) received tremendous press coverage the weeks of the state final. If Nick wins a USYSA national championship with a CESA boys team, he would never see the same coverage in the Greenville paper. It's safe to say he would receive much more coverage in the Greenville paper for just reaching a state final with Riverside than he ever would if he won a national championship with a club team.

CESA, and all clubs, have to self-promote. Stacking up the balls to show "Us vs. Them"....that's creative, but some might take it as a slap in the face.

SCYSA uses Demosphere for the league portions of the site.
I do not know who is hosting the main site

CFC and Bridge I believe also use Demosphere which is anywhere between $1000-1500.

As far as the bulls eye on CESA's back..... why not???, to me it was earned and actually shows up as a sign of respect (with loathing and jealousy included). Not everyone likes to see the Dallas Cowboys win...or Chelsea or whoever...this is part of sports.

As far as going wild on the field, it depends... if the win was at a state playoff game why not (although Hurst's example is a bit extreme).

From first hand account, I know many CESA players, coaches and parents, some are models of sporting behavior some are horses *sses. And I am certain that other clubs have the same. So people in glass houses should not throw rocks.

Lastly, I am all for pointing out to the world how good we are and think the website's choice to show the history is great. Why not, it is true... no lie or skewed numbers. This world is gotten too politically correct.

You play the game to win, I expect to win and I want to win. CESA should not pull the graphic, the rest of us should look at it every day and try to figure out how to make the white balls columm get bigger. On the boys side, the last couple of years has shown a little change, time to work onthe girls side.

Chico, Demosphere costs $150 / month. There are additional charges that are incurred when members use a credit card to register online, but the added service is worth the (relatively small) cost.

Carolina FC used Blue Sombrero for one year, and whilst it did not work out for us, I believe they are on the right track. (CFC was one of their first clients, and we basically proved to be a testing ground for them!)

Holy poo!—I was out of town during this thread—at a TEACHER'S CONFERENCE—

So—You can't award teachers for improvement BECAUSE:

(1) any test is always a test of everything that a student has experienced up to that test (blaming any one teacher or awarding any one teacher is a false award, therefore)

(2) if a teacher has very bright students with high achievement it is natural NOT to see improvements BUT low achieving students can show HUGE improvements while still having an absolute score that is far below the hypothetical high achieving students

(3) I am not comfortable with the teacher analogy BUT I have to concede that soccer licenses and teacher licenses share one thing—they don't ASSURE expertise—

And—finally—I like the CESA site—and the many references in this thread about horror movie music themes—Nice stuff—

Now—who is the best player in the state. . .

[And, Chico, any comment about consolidating soccer clubs as that compares to consolidating school districts?]

Roy of the Rovers: Thanks for the information concerning Demosphere and Blue Sombrero. Pricing sounds reasonable. I guess it's up to the administrator of the site to make it unique.

purpleandyellow: Not much use for the Gerstner Commission, eh?

Chico—

First, if you are in the minority concerning how you choose who to support—I am there with you—I couldn't have stated it better myself—

Next, the Gerstner Commission AND the NEA BOTH have it wrong—With all due respect to some on that commission—The problem in education is we time and time again look at schooling politically—Sigh—

Consider how we look closely at the organization and achievement of clubs on this message board—Wouldn't it be fair to say that soccer success has been more likely when clubs think through a soccer lens instead of a political/bureaucratic lens?—I think so—CESA's success has been to take an aggressive athletic stance about the club—Rigorous try-outs, rigorous training, competitive schedules, high goals. . .

Soccer clubs, and promoting of those clubs, are interesting because it is a whole different animal—Comparing education and sports is a common analogy—One that ultimately falls apart—Sports is a world of CHOICE—Athletes CHOOSE to be athletes and have some internal drive to make teams and then play—Coaches and clubs are encouraged to have try-outs, to cut or move down weaker players, and then to play only the best in game situations—NONE of that is possible and none of that is desirable in a school setting—Competition by its very nature CREATES winners and losers (and those who CHOOSE to compete know this going in)—That's why many of us balk at the "everybody wins" mentality of some recreational leagues—

Education cannot afford winners and losers (And in our democracy we have decided that education is COMPULSORY; we fight against those who choose NOT to participate in education)—It is a different paradigm where we are seeking opportunities for everyone to succeed as well as he/she can and as well as he/she is willing to try—

Due to those dynamics—We CAN hold coaches more accountable for the performance of their athletes, but we will never be able to link directly student performance to individual teachers because we can never know for sure if any student even TRIES on an assessment—