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When the SCYSA schedules their State Cups do they not look at what is going on in the Community Hosting these Events?? Take the america's Cup and PMSL it is in the midlands(Columbia/Lexington) the ssame weekend as Fl vs USC??? So there is no hotels and what is available is way to high. Does any one know the process for choosing the days??? The following weekend there is absolutly nothing going on in Colmbia Area??
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You are also assuming that the cup will be in Cola area... It is possible that Rock Hill may host in their new complex. It is the mid-districts turn not COlumbia's turn.
The weekend of August 4th is the annual SCYSA meeting, maybe you can make your feelings known there.
As far as scheduling I can tell you that they also have to take into consideration the fact that many large showcase tournaments occur in that time frame and in the past it created problems with teams participating.
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I plan to attend the meeting. I have also taken into consideration that RH may host. To be honest I hope RH does Host
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Does anyone know when the final rounds of the State Challenge Cup will be? Historically if falls on the first weekend in December which is Dec 1-2 this year. Are those the correct dates?
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First round should be Dec 1-2, finals Dec 8-9.
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The dates are posted in the SCYSA Calendar . Although Manchester Meadows may be a great location for the state cup, much more goes into the location of the state cup than the hotels for out of town teams. A club has to submit a bid to host the events. Hosting the events normally includes both fall and spring and all state cups. It can be a heavy drain on the clubs volunteers. Normally, only clubs submitting the bid to host and the SCYSA know who are potential candidates. Unfortunately, often times, just like volunteer support at the clubs, there typically aren't many clubs clamoring to host.
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Come on Discoveries.....step up! Get that application in. Love to see State Cup at manchester.
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Agreed! Manchester is by far the best place in the State to have the State Cup. Imagine playing games of fields where the grass isn't 2 inches too high as has been the case in Summerville for the past two years due to rain or just a lack of planning. Whatever the case has been, the Manchester complex will allow great teams to truly execute.
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Keep in mind, we're not talking about just the Challenge State Cup. It also includes both the American and Presidents cups.
Is Manchester going to agree to subject their fields to that kind of abuse? Is Manchester going to agree turn over the decision of whether or not to play to SCYSA?
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Quote:
Keep in mind, we're not talking about just the Challenge State Cup. It also includes both the American and Presidents cups.
Is Manchester going to agree to subject their fields to that kind of abuse? Is Manchester going to agree turn over the decision of whether or not to play to SCYSA?
Excellent point, Bear! I can tell you that Manchester (the City of Rock Hill Parks & Rec Dept) will not allow SCYSA to make that unilateral decision... Not where that brand new facility is concerned.
What I'd like to see is the city allow DSC to bid for these tournaments with a contingecy plan of moving games to other available fields in the area...Cherry Park, local high school fields, etc. Perhaps if DSC and RHPR came together on a mutual plan, then we might see state cup games played in Rock Hill.
I am not familiar with all the rules but does SCYSA mandate all cup games be played at one location?
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Games can be played at different locations..But the fields have to be approved by SCYSA..I do not think fields are an issue as much as finding enough volunteers to cover three state cups..It's alot of work for the handful that volunteer at their clubs..
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Taylorbabe highlights the primary reason that the State Cup has not been hosted by MPSC in the past, from what I have been told. It wasn't a matter of lack of interest, or volunteers, but the City, who owns the fields would not allow someone else, the SCYSA, to control the fields and whether or not the fields were suitable to play, and risk damage to the fields.
I don't think they require fields to be all at one location. If I remember correctly, the spring cups this year were split between SSC and JIYSC. But, CHT also amplifies my other point about the volunteers, if you're trying to cover multiple venues, then it increases the load on the volunteers.
This all kind of makes you wonder whether or not Columbia United, given the resources of the old CSC and NECSA facilities isn't trying to host.
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I thought the whole purpose of building facilities such as Manchester Meadows was to attract these types of tournaments and the additional revenue generated to the surrounding businesses. Please explain the rationale behind why a local government would stand in the way of a tournament being hosted and turn away revenue. I certainly understand the pressure on the clubs and volunteers being an issue. I am sure the local governments used this revenue generation as a major selling point when gaining the tax dollars for these types of developments but now that they are built they want to limit play because of "field abuse"! It really changes that saying of "build it and they will come" to build it and stay away we don't want your money! We just want pretty fields to look at and admire. Also how does SCYSA "control the fields"? Obviously, they would use them for a weekend or two but does that constitute control? I am all for Manchester Meadows hosting the cup if the volunteer situation can be worked out otherwise I am certain some other area and possibly local government of the midlands would welcome the opportunity to earn $$ for their constituency. However, that is always in doubt when the government gets involved.
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I believe the SCYSA State Cups were co-hosted by multiple clubs each of the past 2 years. In the Coastal District in 06-07 it was Summerville Soccer Club and James Island Youth Soccer club. The year before, in the Piedmont, I think it was co-hosted by CESA and either Burning Hills Soccer Club or Foothills Soccer Club.
I have participated in the State Cups as a coach or referee since 1996. As I recall, they were held in the following locations:
96-97: Greenwood, GTSC
97-98: Summerville, SSC
98-99: Aiken, ASC
99-00: Greenville, St Giles
00-01: Summerville, SSC
01-02: Columbia, CSC
02-03: Greenville, GFC
03-04: Summerville, SSC
04-05: Lexington, LCSC
05-06: Greenville, CESA, et al
06-07: Summerville, SSC/JISC
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We just want pretty fields to look at and admire. Also how does SCYSA "control the fields"? Obviously, they would use them for a weekend or two but does that constitute control?
I believe the question of control is who makes the decision to close the fields with rain, snow, or other climate conditions. Most county recreation departments reserve that right. They want to protect their fields rather than have someone make that decision who is primarily interested in getting the games in during a limited time period. During the 97 Fall State Cup the rain made for extremely difficult playing conditions and SYCSA officials insisted that the games be played in the monsoon even though several referees felt the conditions were dangerous.
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I knew there was something I was missing!
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Case in point...Oklahoma City at regionals. I do not know who owns South lake park bu I can tell you they will be paying some $$$ to get the fields back in shape. This would be on top of the money they spent to get the fields in shape for the tournament.
I can see that the local McDonalds and Hampton Inn made nice money but are they going to share some of it to fix the fields? one would think they would via sponsorship to get future dollars, but would they?
The truth is that state cup generates very little money for the hosting Club. Correct me if I am wrong... SCYSA pays field usage of $30 per game, clubs get the program, and concessions... I am not sure who gets the Tshirt money.
I challenge anyone to tell me you can fix field damage for $30 a game. one game may just cover the paint for the lines never mind the time to do it...
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You are correct but what about all the times the games gone on as scheduled? Plus, they only have to paint the lines onces prior to the tourney not before each game. I still think the volunteers bear the brunt of the issue not the municipality. Is there insurance to cover this type of detrimental field damamge?
The rationale regarding fixing field damage at $30 per game would work against anyone hosting such a tourney. I would argue that a private not-for-profit club would have much more difficulty paying for the field recovery than a municipality. The club wouldn't be able to field any further games but taxes would certainly still be collected.
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Case in point...Oklahoma City at regionals. I do not know who owns South lake park bu I can tell you they will be paying some $$$ to get the fields back in shape. This would be on top of the money they spent to get the fields in shape for the tournament.
The venue in Oklahoma City was a city-run facility...or at least that's what the sign outside one of the entrances said. You are correct when you say a ton of $$$ money will be needed to get those fields in playable condition. That venue was literally destroyed.
Personally...if SCYSA isn't willing to contribute funds to repair fields if the above situation were to happen
Rock Hill Parks and Rec WILL NOT turn unilateral control over to SCYSA when it comes to deciding about the conditions of the fields. GUARANTEED. This facility is practically brand new and probably still being paid for. If for some reason, this area happens to get unseasonable or "fluke" weather conditions,such as what happened in OK City, the city will want to reserve the right to close the venue. They probably don't have the funds or would be unwilling to spend the necessary funds to repair damaged fields.
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Event interruption insurance can be purchased for anything. SCYSA should consider having such a policy in place to cover the extraordinary maintenance that could be required in the event excessive rain or snow.
Otherwise, the city of Rock Hill should do it's part as a participant in the growth of SC soccer and make the facility available to the teams who earn the right to compete for a State title.
I was recently told by a California ODP coach about a 50 field facility in Bakersfield, which is in the middle of Northern and Southern California. The fields get tons of play, because is was built to be used.
Buy the interruption insurance for each State Cup and use the facility for State competition. Raise the bar for the rest of SC municipalities and think of the kids first instead of the local government. Think small and be small. It's that simple.
Imagine. Believe. Achieve.
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The responsibility for buying such insurance as well as the cost of it squarely rests with SCYSA, not the host Club (Or cityof Rock Hill for Manchester).
RH isn't trying to grow youth soccer.....Manchester is an investment. If youth soccer benefits....fine. But that not why it was built. If I ran a publicly owned facility I would NEVER cede control of that facility to a third party unless they had such a policy in place.
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>>[Bear] This all kind of makes you wonder whether or not Columbia United, given the resources of the old CSC and NECSA facilities isn't trying to host.<<
What is the incentive for CUFC to offer to host?
CUFC has a series of tournaments that it is actively trying to grow. Each of those tournaments has a required volunteer base that is needed to be successful. Likewise, CUFC has at its BB&T complex one of the larger private facilities in the state. The cost of maintaining that facility falls on CUFC.
As I understand it, the proceeds for the host club are very small compared to an average, or even below average, tournament.
It may be that CUFC steps up to the plate to host out of a "good affiliate" mentality. I know that CESA made a decision to allow the use of its fields (without the volunteers) under what I perceived to be that type of mentality a few years ago. But I certainly don't blame CUFC if they don't want to offer up either their fields or their volunteers and instead want to devote them to something more profitable.
If the SCYSA wishes to have more organizations opt to try to host its state challenge cup, it simply needs to raise the financial incentive for doing so.
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Chico,
You caught me trying to figure out who in the mid state district is submitting a bid to host.
What I do know from the recent past is the SCYSA is having a more difficult time trying to find people to host the state cups. In looking at Coach Ps list, the last 4 times the Coastal District has hosted it has been at Summerville, and more recently a combined SSC and JIYSC.
There is very little in the way of financial incentive to host the state cups, because, I agree with you that the proceeds are minimal compared to other tournament opportunities.
I remember the cup you are talking about in which CESA opened up the facilities but not the volunteers for hosting.
I don't blame any club, including CUFC, for not wanting to host the state cups, it a huge drain on the club, without much in return.
I also agree that the SCYSA should somehow find a way to increase the incentives to "rent" a member clubs fields, or develop fields of their own.
All that said, I think there really are only a few clubs with the demonstrated volunteer base to adequately host these events. Outside of CESA, CUFC and some combined efforts in the Charleston area, people tend to want to show up and play. It happens to be that the clubs that demonstrate the volunteer base to support this type of event, also are hosting their own events, thus leading to the drain on the volunteer pool.
A potential solution would be to somehow have more of the proceeds for the state cups remain with the hosting club. How this would work, I don't have a clue, because I don't understand the financial structure of the SCYSA. Further, it has to be done in a way which is not seen as an additional cost to play soccer in SC. It's a tough nut to crack.
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Big Daddy,
Why exactly did RH build Manchester Meadows? If it is an investment why would they turn away the revenue? Do they collect alot of revenue from non-tournament games? Note: this is a hypothetical discussion I am not saying that RH even has an opportunity to turn down. I could care less who pays for any insurance but why build an awesome facility and not let the youth of SC soccer enjoy it. It seems counter intuitive to build a soccer field and then not play on it. Again, do they just want to watch their grass/investment grow?
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Big Daddy,
Why exactly did RH build Manchester Meadows? If it is an investment why would they turn away the revenue? Do they collect alot of revenue from non-tournament games? Note: this is a hypothetical discussion I am not saying that RH even has an opportunity to turn down. I could care less who pays for any insurance but why build an awesome facility and not let the youth of SC soccer enjoy it. It seems counter intuitive to build a soccer field and then not play on it. Again, do they just want to watch their grass/investment grow?
16, I know your question was directed at Big Daddy but I felt the need to respond...how hard is it to understand the concept of taking care of something for the long term? Although, I do understand your point concerning building the facility and then not using it. I'm a taxpayer here... but I want to see it used, not destroyed. I don't want to see an entity such as SCYSA (which has NO vested interest in the long-term use or care of the facility...their money wasn't used to build it...the taxpayers of York county are paying for the facility) just arbitrarily decide games are going to be played in inclement weather with the attitude that those said games will be played come 'Hell or high-water, period." If SCYSA wants to purchase the insurance someone mentioned in an earlier post, or guarantee funds for field repair after the said events, then by all means go for it. In the meantime, as a local Rock Hill taxpayer, I'd much rather see Manchester start out with smaller events and through experience, work up to larger events.
Back in the spring, Winthrop University hosted a tournament, the Manchester Cup...had some top-tier teams (Clemson, USC, Furman, etc). Two local high school teams also played...Northwestern and Fort Mill as well as Brookland-Cayce and North Aiken. I believe it was fairly well received by the local community. It's my understanding this event will take place annually.
Another issue, as Bear has mention more than once...VOLUNTEERS. DSC is a small club and doesn't have the manpower to cover several different state cups, especially over the course of one season. While I agree that Manchester Meadows is a wonderful facility, I feel it would be prudent to exercise some patience with regard to hosting major events there just yet.
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taylorbabe's first paragraph summarizes my feelings.
Events like State Cup are exactly why they built the complex. But I think the issue comes with ceding control of their complex to a 3rd party group with no vested interest in making responsible decisions as it relates to the complex.
Like someone pointed out in OK....whatever they got in field rentals was more than expended in trying to repair totally chewed up fields.
SCYSA needs to "partner" with the host organization on fields. I understand that State Cup can't be held hostage to some over-protective city employee. But new, very nice fields need to be protected too....and giving someone carte blanche control doesn't make lot of sense.
Would be nice to see DSC and Tega Cay/Carolina Select cooperate on this...as it would be nice for the area to host it.
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As has been said, there is not a lot of revenue to be gained from hosting the State Cup. It would normally draw less teams and less revenue then a club hosted invitational tournament. For a gov't owned facility like Manchester Meadows, it would seem better to go after those types of commercial tournaments. For example, South Charlotte Soccer's web site indicates that the U14 & U15 boys and girls divisions of the Charlotte Invitational will be played at Manchester Meadows on Aug 18-19. Those 2 age groups alone could have 70-90 teams. If I remember correctly, they had 3 flights per gender/age group last year. The restaurants, hotels, and other businesses should see a significant increase in business from this. The tournament web site lists 16 Rock Hill area hotels as host hotels. If the city was able to negotiate considerable usage fees from SCSA, they and the local businesses should profit handsomely from this event.
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i just typed a long well thought out post on this topic and then it would not let me post it.here is a short version.i live in rock hill and the city never does anything for the kids.its all about the money.just say you build these complexes for the money and no one will get mad when they can not use them.
taylorbabe get off your high horse about the city of rock hill.you say they should start off with little events but in your post you also bring up that a college and a high school tourny has been played there.which is it?
i have heard parents call the manchester people "fields nazis".i watched them run some barefooted 5 and 6 yr olds off a field and they were just running around.when the fields first opened there was 1 dsc team that got to use them and that was the only good team they had.dsc has done alot this yr to get better on the girls side.i hear it cost the home team 130 buck an hour and you have to rent them for 2 hrs min if you want to play a game on them.someone can correct me if i am wrong.
i have only seen rec league games and a few dsc games played there.the city owns the rec league so they play on them all the time.
manchester has 2 artifical fields in case of bad weather.i guess they do not want to tear those up either.i pay taxs here and i would like to use them from time to time.just like cherry park.if you step off the running trail onto a field you will just about go to jail.
i do not think you should just allow something that cost this much to be destryed but im tired of hearing how things were built for the kids when we all know they were not.maybe the city never said it was for the kids and we just thought it was.im going to work so i will get back to any of you that want to respond.i had a long list of things to say but i do not have time to do it.
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Quote:
As has been said, there is not a lot of revenue to be gained from hosting the State Cup. It would normally draw less teams and less revenue then a club hosted invitational tournament. For a gov't owned facility like Manchester Meadows, it would seem better to go after those types of commercial tournaments. For example, South Charlotte Soccer's web site indicates that the U14 & U15 boys and girls divisions of the Charlotte Invitational will be played at Manchester Meadows on Aug 18-19. Those 2 age groups alone could have 70-90 teams. If I remember correctly, they had 3 flights per gender/age group last year. The restaurants, hotels, and other businesses should see a significant increase in business from this. The tournament web site lists 16 Rock Hill area hotels as host hotels. If the city was able to negotiate considerable usage fees from SCSA, they and the local businesses should profit handsomely from this event.
i wouldnt mind seeing some sc teams being allowed to use them
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42,
A little harsh on taylorbabe, but I agree that the city didn't put those fields in for the kids. that was my point as to why they wouldn't cede control of the fields. Manchester has NEVER been about the kids. And to RH's credit, I don't think they've ever portrayed it that way.
It has also been sold as an economic engine.
On a similar note.....the CHarlotte KNights are getting ready in a year or two to move into anew stadium in uptown CHarlotte. The county owns the current complex with a beautiful baseball stadium, basketball facility etc, Do they turn it into a recreation/youth complex?
Nope. Its going to be redeveloped into commercial real estate. Its not ever about the kids around here....
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taylorbabe get off your high horse about the city of rock hill.you say they should start off with little events but in your post you also bring up that a college and a high school tourny has been played there.which is it?
cesa42, the event I referenced was a "little" event as it was a one day event...that event had both College and High School teams playing at it. The high school teams played against each other. The College teams played against each other. Given that you are obviously a part of the local soccer community, I would have thought you would have known about it. Winthrop's coach, Rich Posipanko put the event together. I assume he went thru the proper channels when organizing his event.
When organizing his event, I'm sure Coach Posipanko didn't tell the folks at Manchester that in the event of inclement weather, his games were going to be played regardless. That is what this whole discussion is about, in the event you haven't read any of the earlier posts. The city doesn't want to give SCYSA or any third party unilateral control over their facility.
Where, in any of my posts, did I say that Manchester Meadows was built for the kids?
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It is not at all unusual for a county or city owned facility to put the emphasis or priority on recreational soccer during week-to-week use. I would think the purpose would be two-fold:
1 - provide fields on a week-to-week basis for the use of local recreational programs who provide low cost soccer participation to players whose parents pay taxes year in and year out. Also offer the use of the fields as availability permits to local select teams who pay to play.
2 - host tournaments or other events several times a year where out-ot-town teams are paying most of the fees and use this revenue to pay for the field maintenance which is being enjoyed by the local community recreation programs. In addition, the local businesses will benefit from these events.
The Manchester Meadows Park brochure states the following: "Games for Rock Hill’s Youth Soccer Program will be played at Manchester Meadows beginning in the fall of 2006. Soccer tournaments for multiple ages and skill levels will also be held at the park." I would assume that "Rock Hill’s Youth Soccer Program" is referring to the city's rec league.
Last edited by Coach P; 07/29/07 03:59 PM.
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I agree with some that volunteers may be a problem. BUT if Discoveries and Tega Cay could get along for a minute, they could combine forces to host the events. It would be good for the area, the teams could split any profit, and it could be used as a way to lure some players who have gone to NC back to SC. It would be beneficial for both clubs.
I am sure that Northwestern's field could be used (I am sure by it's size it would) as well as Winthrop fields.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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Taylorbabe, I appreciate the discussion but miss the logic. I stated earlier that the lack of volunteers is a much better reason than the concern over the fields. By your post I think you agree with that. It is a shame that such a facility will not be showcased to the soccer players of SC. There seems to be alot of anti-SCYSA people on this site. By the sounds of several posts SCYSA must be a very powerful and unwavering organization when is comes to fields and there usage. Nevertheless, as a member of the SC soccer community your argument leans toward a private club taking on the tournament because they know how to do it. Please stop stating that it is about the fields because a private club is in a much worse position regarding fields (usage/recovery) then any taxpayer funded fields. Turning away revenue because there is a potential of inclement weather would rub me the wrong way if I were a non-soccer tax payer in the RH area. If they want the Manchester paid for quickly then play any many tournaments as possible to generate the highest tax revenue possible and reduce the interest associated with building the fields. It is a shame that the Charlotte tourney will be played there but the one tournament that means the most to SC soccer players (the State Cup) will not because there might just maybe be inclement weather. 
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>>[Soccer16] [...] It is a shame that such a facility will not be showcased to the soccer players of SC. There seems to be alot of anti-SCYSA people on this site. By the sounds of several posts SCYSA must be a very powerful and unwavering organization when is comes to fields and there usage.<<
While I'm not typically a fan of the SCYSA and the way it operates, I don't understand what that has to do with the fundamental argument that the SCYSA has the responsibility for the state cup.
>>Turning away revenue because there is a potential of inclement weather would rub me the wrong way if I were a non-soccer tax payer in the RH area. If they want the Manchester paid for quickly then play any many tournaments as possible to generate the highest tax revenue possible and reduce the interest associated with building the fields.<<
If I were a taxpayer, I'd want the highest possible return on my investment -- in other words, I'd care about profit rather than revenue. So far, in what has been said, it sounds like the municipality has the right idea -- they are servicing the requests that they receive and have lined up some events much, much larger than the state cup.
>>It is a shame that the Charlotte tourney will be played there but the one tournament that means the most to SC soccer players (the State Cup) will not because there might just maybe be inclement weather.<<
If the SCYSA wants the state cup at Manchester, then they should (through their relationships with their affiliate clubs in the area) make that desire known and begin negotiating. It's really just that simple. If they can't find any affiliate clubs in the area willing to do the job, they have two choices: (1) change the financial incentives for those affiliate clubs or (2) find clubs in other areas.
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I think it's very sad for SC youth soccer to see how anyone would not support a desire to make a 28 million dollar facility such as Manchester Meadows available to players striving to win a state title in the game they love to play. Rock Hill and SCYSA should realize how showcasing such a facilty to SC youth can grow local and statewide soccer participation.
Stated Obstacle #1:
There aren't enough volunteers to cover the State Cup tournament and it doesn't make enough money.
First, the issue of manpower can easily be addresses by spreading the responsibility of covering the State tournament over all of the SCYSA clubs. Skill developement and winning State titles are two primary reasons why club players train 2-3 times per week.
Second, the money the State tournament makes for the local club is secondary to the fact that all SCYSA clubs have a responsiblity to give their players the opportunity to compete for a State title. The environment teams compete in promote the highest caliber of competitive experience. It's no secret the quality of the venue used for such competition determines how well teams perform during a match.
Stated Obstacle #2:
Rock Hill doesn't want to turn over control of the fields to SCYSA and the cost to repair fields in the event of bad weather would be prohibitive.
First, agree in advance as to how much rain or snow is too much. Second, have every club participating in State Cup pay a share equal to the SCYSA share for the cost of the event intruption insurance.
Manchester Meadows rivals or exceeds the quality of venues found throughout Europe. Everyone knows youth club soccer warrants having coaches who constantly strive to teach technical and tactical discipline to our sons and daughters. Why then can't Rock Hill and SCYSA see the numerous benefits of combining efforts to showcase the achievements of our State's finest teams at such a venue?
The true investment up for discussion here should be how kids, athletic organizations and facilities can work together to build local and statewide communities. Invest in the kids.
Last edited by Manchester; 07/30/07 01:40 AM.
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Chico,
I agree that the State Cup is the responsibility of SCYSA and they should work toward satisfying the issues in respect to hosting the State Cup.
If Manchester Meadows has hosted such significantly larger events; then this goes against the other issue concerning a lack of volunteers. Manchester Meadows then must have the necessary manpower to host such an event. Concerning profit I am a little confused as to your point. The number of games at Manchester Meadows would be fixed say 50 games in a tournament. The State Cup I assume would be much less. But the wear and tear on the fields would also be much less during a State Cup. The revenue generated from hotel room and restaurant taxes could them be a direct correlation to the number of games played. Therefore, the two arguements stated for not hosting the State Cup are in direct conflict. Either you want more games to generate more tax dollars and are willing to risk the destruction of the fields or you would want less games to avoid the wear and tear and the need for fewer volunteers. You are correct in that profit is the ultimate goal but hosting a larger event reduces your profit due to the wear and tear on the fields that is being discussed in this thread.
So now that I am thoroughly confused why exactly wouldn't RH want Manchester Meadows to host the State Cup? Is it volunteers or the wear and tear on the fields?
I too believe that SCYSA needs to work/negotiate so that the ultimate outcome is a win-win for all but expecially the kids.
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sorry for being harsh taylorbabe but i did have a nice post typed out but it wouldnt let me post it.i had to type what i did in about a min and i type slow.
as for the soccer tournys at manchester.i know the college deal was a one day event but i think that ft mill put on a girls tourny with many top teams from nc and sc.there also was a kick it 3v3 torny not long after manchester opened.
has HURST66 been banned from this forum?he hasnt chimed in
Last edited by cesa42; 07/30/07 03:59 AM.
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42,
I'm all ears on this one. FM Girls Tournament was very successful but we are actually considering reducing the amount of games & days (not necessarily the number of teams) played. I think the eight SC teams all played four full games in three days.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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"So now that I am thoroughly confused why exactly wouldn't RH want Manchester Meadows to host the State Cup? Is it volunteers or the wear and tear on the fields? "
16,
It isn't either issue. I think it has more to do with the fear of severe field damage caused by playing in poor conditions that they will have ceded control over.
Its fine to brainstorm types of scenarios and having some sort of plan....but ultimately we all know that there are always situations that pop up that no one thought of. Someone has to be empowered to make quick decisions in the best interest of the kids, event, and fields. That isn't a shared thing....someone has to have authority. Rock Hill isn't prepared to give outsiders control over Manchester.
Anyone who uses Manchester for an event works hand in hand with the powers that be. What is wrong with that?
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Quote:
16,
It isn't either issue. I think it has more to do with the fear of severe field damage caused by playing in poor conditions that they will have ceded control over.
Its fine to brainstorm types of scenarios and having some sort of plan....but ultimately we all know that there are always situations that pop up that no one thought of. Someone has to be empowered to make quick decisions in the best interest of the kids, event, and fields. That isn't a shared thing....someone has to have authority. Rock Hill isn't prepared to give outsiders control over Manchester.
Anyone who uses Manchester for an event works hand in hand with the powers that be. What is wrong with that?
WHAT.HE.SAID.
Thanks Big Daddy!
-Attitude reflects leadership-
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Taylorbabe,
Please re-read my last post! Isn't that what I say in the last sentence!
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Quote:
Taylorbabe,
Please re-read my last post! Isn't that what I say in the last sentence!
16, I was merely agreeing with what Big Daddy said in his reply to you. It was not meant antagonize you in anyway. If I offended, my sincerest apologies. He just clearly put into words what I was trying, but failing, to express in earlier posts.
-Attitude reflects leadership-
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Quote:
The number of games at Manchester Meadows would be fixed say 50 games in a tournament. The State Cup I assume would be much less. But the wear and tear on the fields would also be much less during a State Cup.
More than 100 games are typically played during the fall Classic/American cup weekend in November. The SCYSA web site lists 106 for 2005 (couldn't find the 2006 records.)
Maybe clubs interested in hosting at a facility like Manchester Meadows should consider bidding for the Challenge Cup only. That involves only 30 games. It would showcase the facility to the highest level of play within SCYSA and the college coaches who scout the event. It would also limit the volunteer requirements.
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Coach P, it still doesn't address the control issue. Why does SCYSA (or any organization) "have" to control anything?
Why is the onus on Manchester? If SCYSA wants to use this beautiful facility they need to work with the Manchester folks to ensure that everyone's needs and concerns are addressed.
I'm pretty sure that the Manchester folks don't really care if State Cup is held there or not. Not meaning to make that sound antagonistic and I know that it does. But that facility won't sink or swim on being awarded that one tournament every 3 years at best.
Its in SCYSA's interests to grow the sport and putting the State Cup in York County will help promote the game in an area where soccer is grossly under served when compared to places like metro Greenville or metro Columbia. If you look at facilities, teams and players......we are far behind those two areas. Putting the Cup here will allow for marketing and promotion that might increase the visibility of the sport here.
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Then what was the point of building it??? It has been there for almost 2 years now. Any time you play games, you are going to put wear and tear on the field. I thought that was the reason for the 2 true turf fields. If nothing else, only play games during daylight hours on the grass, and load up the games on the turf. During the FM tourny, how many game were played in 3 days? If they only allowed 4 games per day on the grass fields (24 games) and maxed out the turf, they would be able to play every game there and minimized the damage. Also you could use Northwestern's field as an alternate or as a field to reduce the number of games at Manchester.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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"I too believe that SCYSA needs to work/negotiate so that the ultimate outcome is a win-win for all but expecially the kids. "
16,
The only thing thats for the kids is rec soccer. Once you get past paying $30 a season or whatever the stakes and stakeholders change.
Club soccer is about money, careers and resume' building. State level organizations like SCYSA are all about control and authority. Complexes like Manchester are about attracting visitors who will spend money and generate tax revenue. Where do kids factor into any of that?
I don't deny that people get into youth sports out of love of the game and enjoyment of kids.....but I love the movie Bulworth, where the Warren Beatty character suffers a nervous breakdown at the beginning of the movie when he realizes that he is totally beholden and enslaved to special interests, lobbyists, and the money-men who keep him in the means to be re-elected. When the whole reason he got into politics was because of Jack and Bobby and Dr King....and his desire to make a difference.
If any of this were really about the kids....do you really think we would have half of the issues we have today with rivalries between Clubs, fee structures, etc.
Understand the beast......money, politics, control. Its not necessarily bad so long as you know what you're knee deep in.
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Manchester was built to make money. And pretty sure that all of the hs and college tournments to date have been small enough to be totally played on turf, as opposed to grass.
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>>[Big Daddy] If any of this were really about the kids....do you really think we would have half of the issues we have today with rivalries between Clubs, fee structures, etc.<<
Yes.
It appears that Adam Smith was more correct than Karl Marx. A market-based structure has historically proven to work better in most areas (although not all) than other structures. However, the actual "making of the sausage" (e.g., competition, internal power struggles, etc.) can get kind of ugly.
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BD,
at manchester how many fields total and how many are turf?
plus - i do not think that scysa is ready/capable to host a regional event even if they had the fields/complex.
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Hmmm....while debating the corruption of youth sports in America we introduce an argument advocating the most efficient means of doing so?
I understand your point.....and I agree that pettiness is human nature and that human nature is all over rec soccer.
But at its core.....rec soccer is about kids, parents, and parent coaches. Administration...is usually extremely minimal. Rec soccer is stripped down to the essentials and is the closest...to being about the kids.
My kids play Club soccer and it has been a great experience overall. But there have been some very harsh lessons along the way that have had nothing to do with kids best interests. Mine or anyone elses.
This discussion is relevant.....only when asking an organization to do something "for the kids".
You can't do that......when honestly, that isn't their primary mission. Successful organizations aren;t successful because they allow secondary drivers to supercede primary ones.
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Quote:
BD,
at manchester how many fields total and how many are turf?
Web site says 6 natural and 2 turf, all lighted.
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Only event I've seen there on grass was last summers 3 v 3. The college and high school tournaments held there this past Spring were all on the artificial turf I believe.
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Quote:
Only event I've seen there on grass was last summers 3 v 3. The college and high school tournaments held there this past Spring were all on the artificial turf I believe.
I would think the Charlotte Invitational will have to use all 8 fields if they are going to have the U14 & U15 boys and girls divisions there. Even then, I don't think Manchester Meadows has compacity for all 4 of these gender/age groups based on my experience at that tournament last year. U14 girls alone played 30 games last year. If all 4 groups did that this year, that would be 120 games. Over 70 on Saturday alone and I don't think you could get more than 56 games in a day on 8 fields.
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I think they are fine with playing on grass fields when the grass is not dormant. So May to Sept/October.....maybe April to October.
I don't think normal wear and tear is a concern. Playing a ton of games on the grass fields over a summer weekend isn't a problem.
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I noticed something interesting yesterday. The SCYSA league scheduling packet for this Sunday's scheduling meeting lists Manchester Meadows fields 1 & 2 as available for league games on August 18-19. SCSA's website indicates that the Charlotte Invitational will be using Manchester Meadows for U14-15 boys and girls divisions. Appears to be a conflict. Anyone know what is going on with this?
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Manchester is hosting the VELUX SKYLIGHTS - DISCOVERIES SOCCER CLUB INVITATIONAL SOCCER TOURNAMENT August 25-26 at Manchester Meadows Soccer Complex for U13 - U18.
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South Charlotte is definitely using Manchester Meadows #1 and #2 fields for their tournament this weekend. Apparently there is no conflict.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Quote:
South Charlotte is definitely using Manchester Meadows #1 and #2 fields for their tournament this weekend. Apparently there is no conflict.
Someone informed the SCYSA League director and he blocked the fields for those days before the scheduling meeting. 
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Quote:
South Charlotte is definitely using Manchester Meadows #1 and #2 fields for their tournament this weekend. Apparently there is no conflict.
On the tournament schedule it appears that they are using all 8 fields. My U15 girls teams is scheduled for 2 matches on field 3 on Saturday.
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Good luck Coach P.....I'll look for you there.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Thanks. Hope to see you there.
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I think a facility would be crazy to cede control of a facility to tournament operators. Here in Rockford, Illinois, there are two very large facilities that are used for soccer. One I believe has 34 fields, and the other one has 24 fields. They are run by the Rockford Park District. They make the decisions concerning the playing condition of the fields, and if it has been rainy and sloppy, and the fields could be destroyed, they have the power during state cup to move any game to any field within the complex. I have seen a U-18 semifinal game be moved to the practice fields because of the fear of destroying the field due to poor field conditions. They have sunk a lot of money into the fields, and don't want to see them be destroyed because of field conditions. They also don't allow any warm up in the goal mouth. But then again, we get the Region II ODP camp here every summer. They are premier facilities, and they are kept that way by rotating the fields, and by moving the touch lines and end lines. If you let the fields be destroyed, it takes so much to get them back into playing condition. I saw one field literally get destroyed in May, and it just got back to playing condition in the past couple of weeks. Why would any organization give control about the fields to any other organization that has no interest in what the fields look like after play is finished?
If you are going to argue a point, at least get factual information to back up your side.....
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has the state cup (classic and/or challenge) locations been selected?
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Here is an update: SCSCL League play for U15 – U18 teams will conclude on November 17 with the top six teams from the SCSCL and the two Premier League teams qualifying for the First Round Games to be played December 1st at the highest seed home field. The final round of the Challenge Cup hosted by Columbia United FC will be played December 8th and 9th in Columbia. Champions will represent South Carolina in the Region III Championships in June 2008 to be played in Raleigh, NC. SCSCL teams are not required to complete an application for state cup. SCYSA website
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Since the last question was about Classic AND Challenge, I'll post the other half of that page that applies to the rest of us:
PMSL League play for U15 – U18 teams will conclude on November 4 and will be followed by the Presidents Medal Cup on November 10th and 11th. The Presidents Medal Cup will be hosted by Columbia United FC in Columbia. Winners of the Presidents Medal Cup will be offered the opportunity to play in the Region III Presidents Cup in June 2008. Applications for the Presidents Medal Cup will be available on October 10th.
I've got good news and bad news...
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