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Boys U16 CUFC 3 vs Lexington 0
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Girls U18 CUFC 6 vs Lexington 0
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u17b Quarter-final match
DSC 90 Green 9
MPSC 0
-Attitude reflects leadership-
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U18 GIRLS:
Bridge FA 89 Gold - 2
MPSC 89 Elite - 1
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U18B
Lexington 8-0 Discoveries
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I heard the U15 Lexington Girls did not even show for their first round game against the CESA u15's. Does anybody know what happened here? Does anybody know what the rules, pentalties, is for a forfeit. I think the coach is suspended for 1 year and they loose their bond money. But I am not for sure on that. If anybody knows what happened and can enlighten me on the rules, it would be good.
That there is an RV Clark......
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Was anyone surprised that the U18 MPSC Girls lost in the 1st round of State Cup??? Bridge FA must have really improved over last year.
Looks like the CESA Premier & Columbia United U18 girls semi-final game should be a good one.
Soccer is a game you just have to love!!!!
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HoBo:
Looks like the U15 CESA & Lexington Teams played based on the score on the scysa.org website. CESA won 3-0. If it was a forfiet score would have been 1-0.
Soccer is a game you just have to love!!!!
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Anyone think that they should re-ced the teams 1-4 after the first round in case of upsets, etc...?
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world cup
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No way. Upsets are part of tournament play....makes it exciting. How about a blind draw after every round, much like FA Cup play? Kind of crazy to see the top two seeds squaring off in the first round?
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Quote:
I heard the U15 Lexington Girls did not even show for their first round game against the CESA u15's. Does anybody know what happened here? Does anybody know what the rules, pentalties, is for a forfeit. I think the coach is suspended for 1 year and they loose their bond money. But I am not for sure on that. If anybody knows what happened and can enlighten me on the rules, it would be good.
Team penalty is your bond and the potential to be excluded from next years SCSCL. The coach penalty is a one year suspension from coaching in SCYSA. Standard score in a forfeit is 3-0.
Last edited by NeverPlayed; 12/03/07 02:27 PM.
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goal
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Interesting breakdown of the clubs with teams in the final four:
CESA - 12
CUFC - 8
Bridge - 3
FSCG - 2
LCSC - 2
CUSC - 1
CFC - 1
It appears that the "big two" may be creating some serious separation from the rest of the clubs in the state. While CESA can rightly claim to have enjoyed that separation for several years, it is noteworthy that CUFC is both closing the gap with CESA and separating from the rest of the clubs.
Without getting into the issue of whether this is good, bad or indifferent, it's pretty clear that there are two dominant clubs in the state. Next weekend will be very interesting and exciting for all involved.
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Question:
Does anybody think the season has dragged on a little long? North Carolina's state cup finals were on November 11, South Carolina finishes a month later, why?
South Carolina permits two games in one day, North Carolina doesn't. North Carolina has three or four times as many teams as South Carolina. Logic would say it would be the other way around.......that NC would have to finish four weeks after SC.
Any concerns? From a parent's perspective, I would like to see the season compressed and completed earlier because:
1. We are backed up into the holidays and it has dragged on for too long
2. High school soccer teams are starting their conditioning and we are not done with club yet
3. If my kid is playing high school basketball, we are juggling two competitive sports
4. If my daughter is U-15 or older (especially U-17 & U-18), she's missing a great opportunity to participate in the CASL Shootout
Note: I realize that North Carolina only has to worry about the Girls State Cup in the fall so this possibly contributes to why they can get it done a little quicker.
Last edited by Hurst66; 12/03/07 02:57 PM.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Grim,
The Lexington team did not show up- it was a forfeit.
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Hurst,
The season is to long. These kids should have more time between club and high school to let there bodies rest.
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They did not play and all forfiets are scored a 3-0 win. That way you get the maximum points.
That there is an RV Clark......
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Grim Keeper,
Both the MPSC U18 Girls Elite team and the Bridge FA 89 Gold are excellent teams, with many talented girls. They are also well-coached. I know that many of the current Bridge team were also on the team last year, playing up. They also have 5 girls that are true U17's, playing up this year.
The Bridge FA 89 Girls Gold team and MPSC have met 3 times this year - once in tournament play where the Bridge won 1-0, once in League play where MPSC won 2-0, and then finally last weekend, with the Bridge prevailing 2-1. I was at all 3 games, all of which were good, competitive games.
The 2 semifinal games this Sat. in the U18 bracket - Bridge 89 v. CESA Challenge and CESA Premiere vs. Columbia United Elite- should both be great games.
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My bad on the forfiet score. I didn't think points mattered in sudden death format. No ties you either win or go home.
FM: Thanks for the info on Bridge & MPSC. I plan to go to the games this weekend and I look forward to some great games. Congrats to Bridge!!!! How do they match up with the CESA Challenge team?
Soccer is a game you just have to love!!!!
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Grim Keeper,
Bridge FA 89 Gold girls met the CESA Challenge U18's once in league play and came out with a 1-0 win. It was a great game, the CESA Challenge team are also very talented. It should be interesting Saturday!
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An interesting stat to see would be the percentage of teams each club made the final 4 against the amount of team that didn't make it.
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1st score is the amount of teams each club had in Challenge/Premier league, 2nd is the amount of teams they have in final 4:
FSCG - 2/2
CESA - 18/12
CUFC - 14/8
CUSC - 2/1
Bridge - 11/3
LCSC - 7/2
CFC - 6/1
CASA - 3/0
MPSC - 3/0
DSC - 5/0
CSC - 5/0
NACSC - 2/0
USA - 1/0
FSA - 1/0
HHBSC - 1/0
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MPSC does have 1 remaining, 91 boys
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Plus there are some clubs that didn't field challenge teams.
Stewie- "Where did you graduate again, university of duhhhh?"
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FSCG - 2/2
CESA - 18/12
CUFC - 14/8
CUSC - 2/1
Bridge - 11/3
LCSC - 7/2
CFC - 6/1
CASA - 3/0
MPSC - 3/1
DSC - 5/0
CSC - 5/0
NACSC - 2/0
USA - 1/0
FSA - 1/0
HHBSC - 1/0
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I think it is interesting that, by my calculations, CESA and Columbia United field a combined 37% of the SC teams playing SCSCL and R3PL (30 of 82) but they have earned a combined 63% of the Final 4 berths (20 of 32).
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It would also be interesting to see how many of those Final Four teams are R3PL teams and how many of those come from CESA and CUFC. I would suspect most all of them do.
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How many other cases must you account for such as the Bridge 93 boys gold team that won the u15 challenge league but choose not to play in the fall state cup? Stands to reason if this team won the divison they would have stood a good chance of being in the final four. So bridge has 3out of 11 in the final four but...........
Are there other cases such as this?
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Quote:
FSCG - 2/2
CESA - 18/12
CUFC - 14/8
CUSC - 2/1
Bridge - 11/3
LCSC - 7/2
CFC - 6/1
CASA - 3/0
MPSC - 3/1
DSC - 5/0
CSC - 5/0
NACSC - 2/0
USA - 1/0
FSA - 1/0
HHBSC - 1/0
DSC 90 Green is still in the final four.......
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Bridge 93 Gold Girls also won their division, but chose not to play in the Fall State Cup.
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Why did the Bridge teams choose not to play Fall State Cup?
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I'm speculating.
These 2 teams played up a year for the increased competition during the fall season. A team/player can only play in 1 state cup for the year. So, they are going to most likely play at age in the spring. Given the results from playing up, the chances are they will be looking for state titles and RIII spots. However, with the dynamics of the academy program on the boys team, it will be interesting to see how that unfolds.
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Bridge 93 were among three girls' teams that played up to U15 in league play but did not play U15 state cup. The other 2 are Columbia United Elite 93 and CESA Premier 93. I suspect you will see all 3 of these teams in the U14 Challenge Cup in May. Bridge and CUFC qualified for the R3PL this spring. CESA played U15 R3PL in the fall. I wonder if they will play in the U14 R3PL as well.
Last edited by Coach P; 12/07/07 06:59 PM.
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Quote:
It would also be interesting to see how many of those Final Four teams are R3PL teams and how many of those come from CESA and CUFC. I would suspect most all of them do.
On the girls' side, 7 of the 16 final four teams played R3PL. 5 are CESA and 2 are CUFC.
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On the boys' side, 9 of the 16 played RIII PL.
3 CESA
3 CUFC
1 MPSC
1 DSC
1 LCSC
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Quote:
Interesting breakdown of the clubs with teams in the final four:
CESA - 12
CUFC - 8
Bridge - 3
FSCG - 2
LCSC - 2
CUSC - 1
CFC - 1
I think you missed 3 teams in the final 4. There should be 32. Here's what I got:
CESA - 12
Columbia United - 8
BridgeFA - 3
Lexington - 2
Foothills - 2
Discoveries - 1
Mt Pleasant- 1
Charleston United - 1
Carolina FC - 1
North Augusta - 1
Quote:
...it's pretty clear that there are two dominant clubs in the state....
I think Bridge still has to be considered among the top clubs in the state. The fact that no boys' U16-U18 Bridge teams are in the final 4 was to be expected considering their membership in the USSF Academy. But if by "in the state" you mean "in SCYSA", I would agree with you.
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Dec 8, 2007
U16 Boys '91 CUFC Elite 3 vs MPSC 0
U16 Boys '91 CESA Premier 1 vs CESA Challenge 0
Final Sunday 11am CUFC Elite vs CESA Premier
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U15 Boys '92 CUFC 1 vs Bridge 2 Overtime
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U15 Girls CESA 3 CUSC 2
Bridge 2 CUFC 1
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U18B
Lexington 2 -0 FSCG
CESA P 2-0 CUFC
U17B
CESA P 3-2 CUFC - OT
Strange game...CESA looks to have some injury problems
Boys side of the 8 teams in the finals 6 played premier in the fall
U16 and U17 both are all premier level finals.
Ditto in the girls side
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The CESA LCSC match tomorrow should be, in the words of Jim Ross, a slobberknocker.
Stewie- "Where did you graduate again, university of duhhhh?"
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U17G...
CESA 5, North Augusta 0
Columbia United 1, Foothills 0
On other subject, CESA U14G will play age as at-large R3PL team in Spring. However, as an at-large R3PL team, they will also be required to play Challenge League to qualify for Spring State Cup.
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What time is the Lexington/CESA game and where?
"I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles"
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U18 Boys Challenge Cup LCSC vs. CESA at Columbia United FC West (CSC) BB&T 1 - 3:00 p.m. For all SCYSA Challenge Cup schedules, click SCYSA Website.
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92 Bridge Girls...STATE CHAMPIONS!!
Good job, ladies
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Anybody have any other scores from today?
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I think these are right:
U15B - CESA 4-0 over Bridge
U-16G - CUFC won in kicks from the spot
U-16B - CESA won in kicks from the spot
The U-16B game was special. CESA came out with much more intensity than in the previous two meetings, both won 2-0 by CUFC. It was a good, hard fought game. CUFC went down a man on a straight red with about 10 minutes left in the first half. The sending off was for language in dissenting a foul call in the box. CESA scored the PK and led 1-0 at half. CUFC fought hard a man down and equalized with about 15 minutes left in the game. They then went ahead on a nice bicycle by Antoine Parris with only 5 minutes left. CESA scored their equalizer two minutes later on a nice header off a corner kick. Two scoreless 10 minute overtimes later and CESA won in kicks from the spot. Their keeper made two nice saves and that was pretty much all she wrote.
As a CUFC parent (my son played keeper), I have to say that I was really proud of the way our guys played today, particularly with having to play 90 minutes with 10 men. It was a great game by two excellent teams. The rivalry is respectful, intense, and conducted by young men who bring honor to the game, to their clubs and to themselves. Well done.
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Any details on the U-16G final? A CUFC Elite win over CESA Premier would be considered an upset, right?
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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CESA U18 boys defeated Lexington on PK's. Lexington scored in the 93rd minute to send the game to OT. It ended 2 - 2 at the end of OT. Lexington missed wide on their 1st PK and the CESA keeper stopped the 4th kick to seal the win.
Lexington has a very talented team and SC will be well represented at Regionals in Raleigh by these two teams.
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Seems to have been a lot of games decided on pk's. So far it looks like both 16's and the 18 boys were decided that way. I also heard the 15 girls were decided on pk's as well.
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What in the world happened to CUFC? Looks like the same old soccer to me. Well done CESA!
You may disagree, but you're wrong!
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Always right- Here are my observations
This years State cup provided some the closest games played in years. Of the 8 finals 4 were decided by pks. Only 2 games was lopsided (cesa u15b 4-0 and cesa u18g 4-0).
On the boys side it would seem hard to say which team is definitvely the strongest in the State aside from in the u15 group.
The 16 boys was decided in Pks- CUFC has beaten CESA twice in other competitions this year and has already qualified for regionals.
17 boys DSC won 1-0- CESA finished higher in R3PE and looks good for a regional berth.
18 boys CESA on pks- Lex finished 2nd in R3PE thus qualifing for regionals.
A lot of fine teams in the State- With 3 boys age groups at least, sending mulitple teams to regionals. This can only be good for soccer in SC.
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if any club other than cesa would have won 5 state cups, finished runner up in 4 others, it would be a circus on here. there would be "insert coach's name here from cufc...for president" campaigns for the next 6 months. no other club won more than 1 state cup and that is why the message board is quiet. so, if you choose to analyze the results that way, then fine. but, the next time the results are in favor of a non-cesa club, have the same perspective and rationalization.
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Quote:
Quote:
...it's pretty clear that there are two dominant clubs in the state....
I think Bridge still has to be considered among the top clubs in the state. The fact that no boys' U16-U18 Bridge teams are in the final 4 was to be expected considering their membership in the USSF Academy. But if by "in the state" you mean "in SCYSA", I would agree with you.
Respectfully, I think that CUFC as a club can this year claim clear dominance over Bridge and has established itself as clearly superior (note: last year I argued against this based on last year's results) CUFC put 8 teams into the final 4. CUFC also had important championships in non-challenge level soccer. I believe that CUFC is the only club other than CESA currently offering the widest range of competitive soccer to all age groups.
I'm by no means a "Bridge-hater" -- I've championed the club for years. But it's clear when looking at final 4 numbers (which are much more statistically significant than finalists or championship numbers) that CUFC deserved a clear #2 (and not a disputed #2) ranking in SC.
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It used to be all 8 state championships went to CESA. But 4 and 4 Finalists is still a dominating performance. The more things change the more they stay the same......
Division Champion Finalist Result
U15 BOYS CHALLENGE CUP
CESA 92 Boys Premier Bridge FA 92 Boys Gold 4:0
U15 GIRLS CHALLENGE CUP
Bridge FA 92 Girls Gold CESA 92 Girls Premier 1:0
U16 BOYS CHALLENGE CUP
CESA '91 Boys Premier CUFC '91 Boys Elite 3:2
U16 GIRLS CHALLENGE CUP
CUFC U16 Elite CESA 91 Premier 3:2
U17 BOYS CHALLENGE CUP
DSC 90 Green CESA 90 Premier 1:0
U17 GIRLS CHALLENGE CUP
CESA 90 Girls Premier Columbia United FC 90 Elite 2:1
U18 BOYS CHALLENGE CUP
CESA 89 Boys Premier LCSC United 89 3:2
U18 GIRLS CHALLENGE CUP
CESA 89 Girls Premier CESA 89 Challenge 4:0
Last edited by 2004striker; 12/10/07 04:44 PM.
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Quote:
if any club other than cesa would have won 5 state cups, finished runner up in 4 others, it would be a circus on here. there would be "insert coach's name here from cufc...for president" campaigns for the next 6 months. no other club won more than 1 state cup and that is why the message board is quiet.
I agree. On another thread I published the mathematical expectations regarding finalists and champions so that it could be understood just what CESA achieved as a club. They are to be congratulated.
At the same time, qualitatively, there appears to me to be a decreasing gap between the clubs -- as would be expected for the by far two largest clubs in the state. It will be interesting to see if CESA can beat the "law of averages" and increase their competitive acceleration or whether CUFC will continue to make strides and grow ever more competitive with CESA.
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Quote:
It will be interesting to see if CESA can beat the "law of averages" and increase their competitive acceleration or whether CUFC will continue to make strides and grow ever more competitive with CESA.
Winning breeds winning. I have witnesed 8 or 10 very good players leave other midlands clubs to go play for CUFC. These players never played in a CSC or NECSA uniform. Last year I talked to several parents who were not all together happy with their CUFC experience - this year I haven't heard the same. I figured they would need several years to work out the "kinks". Looks like they are well on their way.
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CESA u16 Boys was playing with a field player as a keeper in the final against CUFC Elite 91 Boys. He saved two pks to help CESA win the game. Great Job to both teams. It is always a pleasure watching these teams play.
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I'm not sure what the fuss is about. Most of the finals were as competitive as they could be. Four were decided by kicks from the spot (a horrible way to determine a winner - but an accepted part of the game). From what I witnessed, the games were hard and fairly fought. The kids had fun. The parents were nervous wrecks (especially the parents of goalkeepers) and several people have said it was the best day of soccer they've ever witnessed. What's not to love? I'm a CUFC guy. I root for our teams. I respect what CESA has accomplished and recognize it as the most "successful" club in the state. We've done a great job since the merger and I think the "results" gap will continue to narrow. Ultimately though, it's important to keep in mind that this isn't a competition between clubs. The sole purpose of their existence is to create an environment where our kids can play soccer, improve as they can, and have fun.
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Well stated Happy Daddy.
Looks like we have three dominant programs in the state right now, one in each district. There is also a few more good clubs out there able to field a competitive team every now and then, or, at least, provide a steady pipeline to The Big 3.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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As "Loc Dog" noted, it's hard to disagree with the point previously made that there may well have been a different response on the message board given different results. However, let's ignore the emotional underpinnings of that debate... The reason I look for statistical differences in things, from companies in which I advise or invest to selecting mutual funds to school achievement scores to grocery shopping and beyond, is for two reasons: - As someone who owns and/or helps businesses, I believe that benchmarking and evaluation of "best in class" businesses, as measured as objectively and rationally as possible, leads to better businesses.
- As a consumer, I believe that statistical differentiation, particularly against expectation and particularly over time, can potentially give me a higher value in terms of what I'm spending.
Taken together, these tend to me to form a large part of the "invisible hand" of which Mr. Smith was so fond. [Postscript: I made a promise to some folks that regardless of outcome, I would perform the same analysis this year that I have since before CESA was formed. I've lived up to that promise; now I will fade away to my previous state of posting little or not at all...  ]
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I have noticed very little talk among posters this season about pretty much anything..Maybe we just don't care anymore or all the former poster's children has moved past club soccer..but to say that there would be alot of talk on the message board if CESA would not have performed as well is purely an assumption on everyone's part or maybe it's a way to get the board up and talking..With all that CESA provides it's players I would be surprised if they did not dominate state cup year in and year out..
Last edited by coldhardtruth; 12/10/07 09:36 PM.
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I agree the chatter would be different if the results were different. However, this may be just a result of the number of posters from the respective clubs as opposed to any message board bias. My disappointment is better shared through other avenues as big brother is always watching.
The"Evil Empire" is to be congratulated for their dominance of the state cup. But is does appear that the force is working in mysterious ways.
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The Evil Red Empire from the North will always prevail with the incredible leadership within that organization. The only way to bring the Empire down is to cut off the heads of the 'Red Leaders', (so to speak), so they will not be able to provide the exceptional training they are known for. And in a year or two we won't have to put up with all of Chico's stats and pecan-pie charts that he uses in the Club Soccer thread. But, alas, I am sure he will switch over to posting similar stats and exceptionally exceptional analyses in the college thread. CESA will one day have a bad year, maybe like in 2025......... so like the Yankees, and the Dam Irish, and any California sports teams, and Clemson and Georgia bulldogs, and any Florida sports teams, and any Texas sports teams, and the Yankees, and the Tarheels and Duke basketball.............we need to hate on 'em while the hating's good.
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Hurst,
Pipelines run both ways sometimes. Aren't there 6-7 players from outside of Rock Hill on the Discoveries team. I believe that one of these "pipelines" scored the lone goal in the DSC-CESA match.
atl
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I would say that the dominance CESA has on the girls side will end soon. With the CESA U18G premier team graduating, all other teams in the state have their chance. The dominance of the U18G team was due to a number of girls coming from outside the Greenville area. When that stops the dominance will be over.
Look at the state cup finals this year, CESA U15G & U16G go down. Cesa U17 win but were beaten last year in finals. How may outside players are on those teams vs. the U18G team. When the elite players in the state and out of the state stop traveling to Greenville the Empire will fall.
I believe that the CESA U18G premier team had at least 7 players that traveled 2 hours or more to play. That is a good move when you win 4 straight State Cups and go to 4 straight Regionals and are seen by every coach in the country at Disney & Regionals. I would suspect that every player on the CESA U18 premier team has been offered to play at the college level. Why? Look at their achievements and the ability to be seen by college coaches. Coaches don't offer who they don't see!
Are players being seen where they play? Is your club going to tournaments that are attended well by College coaches. I can tell you that CESA has stopped going to WAGS & CASL Shootout. Are Bridge and CUFC going to these tourneys? If so, players will stop at your door to play first before by-passing you to play in Greenville.
Soccer is a game you just have to love!!!!
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B-Rabbit,
An example of "pipelines running both ways" would be a club team (other than the Big 3) receiving players who have burned out, been cut, or have become dissatisfied with one of the three superpowers.
I consider the DSC team to be an example of one of the state's smaller (or less-successful) clubs producing an absolutely dynamite team. No doubt that Enzo & Company have had tremendous success, not only against SC's Big 3, but also at the regional level.
Hats off to Dom Wren and those DSC boys on another great season.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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That's not exactly the case with the DSC team. Several of those players come from out side your so called big 3.If you have a good coach and a good team you can pull players. Of course there is the flip side to that. Don't offer a competetive team and quality coahing and players leave.
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This DSC team is the exception, not the norm.
Many good players from Rock Hill & York County get their foundation from DSC or Tega Cay (CSSC) and then move to more competitive club teams in Charlotte or Greenville.
After a few years away, some of them come back to the York County clubs for a variety of reasons.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Grim Keeper
CESA girls placed all four teams in the finals, winning two and losing two in PK's. Looking at Hyslop's U-14's and the rest of the CESA teams, the future looks quite good in Greenville.
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Best Games Anyone?
With the many games going to PKs, there was plenty of drama.
I did not get to see any of the girls games...
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sweet, I agree. CESA Premier U-14G are a nice team. 
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Did the U-16G final go to the 12th penalty kick? Did CESA Premier fight back from an 0-2 defecit to draw even with CUFC Elite? Sounds like a candidate for Best Game to me. 
Last edited by Hurst66; 12/11/07 03:56 PM.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Sweet feet:
I did not say that CESA would not be good, I said that they would not be dominant as in the past. For example, 2004 & 2005 CESA girls won all 4 challenge state cups. 2006 CESA won 3 of 4 challenge state cups. 2007 CESA won 2 0f 4 challenge state cups. See the trend.
How many players on Hyslop's U14 team are from out of the area? How many will stay for four more years if they don't go to WAGS & CASL Shootout? CUFC seems to be going to the best tourney's. Disney will be part of CUFC's tourney list after winning state cup.
Soccer is a game you just have to love!!!!
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Grim Keeper you are wrong if you think people traveling to cesa do it based on how many state championships cesa wins.i think it is more based on if a team is playing in the region III league and the coaching they get.if i am looking at this right then cesa has teams at every age in region play.i also see that there are only three cufc teams in region play.two of those will be the rising u-17 and u-18 girls which will age out over the next two years.if i understand the meaning of your post then you are saying that the older girls will be leaving and nothing will be coming to cesa.with hyslops u-14 team that most likely will have a region spot later and with all other ages having a region spot i think players will continue to come to cesa.if people that are looking for a club will look close they will see that with what cesa has to offer it will be the best choice.i assume your are a cufc parent and there are some good teams there.BUT other than the rising u-17 and u-18 girls,what do you have to offer kids to make them want to travel to columbia.i saw some kids and parents on the cufc 15 girls team that was upset that they not only lost in the final 4 but im sure a little upset that they will not have a region spot.i wonder if any of those younger girls will be leaving to play in the region III league.you do not need to worry about the outside pipeline.you need to worry about the pipline within your club.
Last edited by happyfeet; 12/11/07 05:44 PM.
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Quote:
Quote:
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...it's pretty clear that there are two dominant clubs in the state....
I think Bridge still has to be considered among the top clubs in the state. The fact that no boys' U16-U18 Bridge teams are in the final 4 was to be expected considering their membership in the USSF Academy. But if by "in the state" you mean "in SCYSA", I would agree with you.
Respectfully, I think that CUFC as a club can this year claim clear dominance over Bridge and has established itself as clearly superior (note: last year I argued against this based on last year's results) CUFC put 8 teams into the final 4. CUFC also had important championships in non-challenge level soccer. I believe that CUFC is the only club other than CESA currently offering the widest range of competitive soccer to all age groups.
I'm by no means a "Bridge-hater" -- I've championed the club for years. But it's clear when looking at final 4 numbers (which are much more statistically significant than finalists or championship numbers) that CUFC deserved a clear #2 (and not a disputed #2) ranking in SC.
I have no disagreement with this at all in the context of SCYSA/USYSA. I was just indicating that to assess the strength of Bridge as a whole, you would need to include their USSF Academy participation which has understandably reduced their SCYSA results.
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happyfeet
State Cup Finals = Premier league.
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Grim
From a clubs standpoint it all starts with State championships. Championships afford a club options that they wouldn't otherwise have. At least CESA has options to attend tournaments like Disney,WAGS and CASL. I'll take weather in Orlando over the DC area and I'll take the fields at Disney over the cow pastures at CASL.
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....and for those who feel like you must sign your kid up for Cesa, CUFC or Bridge today remember Jamal Geathers and Mike Gustavson did not play for any of the above.(No - I'm not from Aiken)
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What club/coach does Geathers and Gustavson credit with their development. How successful were their club teams, state cups etc,, Thanks
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Played club soccer for the Aiken Fire and helped the team win four state championships ... Helped the Fire to the Region III semifinals three times and to the finals on two occasions ... Team also won the U-15 Region III championship and went on to the national club finals in 2002. Goose of course played at USC and Geathers was recruited by USC also. Both now play at Clayton State. Clayton State Men's soccer
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Quote:
...This years State cup provided some the closest games played in years. Of the 8 finals 4 were decided by pks. Only 2 games was lopsided (cesa u15b 4-0 and cesa u18g 4-0).
It seems that the competition is getting better each year in the Challenge Cup, particularly in the finals. The average margin of victory in the championship matches has decreased from 2.38 in 2005 to 2.00 in 2006 to 1.75 this year.
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Coach P, Nice analysis. (Is Chico subcontracting out some of his work?) 
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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He seems to be semi-retired. I just thought someone needs to do some of it.
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More "semi-busy" than "semi-retired"; I've had some clients go critical in the last few months.
Coach P: I think your goal differential numbers show the improvement of CUFC and its separation from any other club or clubs. I understand that Bridge had basically 2-3 teams out of SCYSA/USYSA play; but even if you use these numbers you can tell that CUFC has really made strides -- and the strides are on the most important things, broadening out their program and doing a better job of offering a great youth soccer experience for a lot of kids. I thought the fact that they were the only club over expectation in terms of finalists is more important because of RIIIPL eligibility.
I'm not a fan of the way CUFC got started, but I think it's important to give credit where credit is due.
With all of that said, it's hard not to continually be impressed with what CESA has accomplished. I just hope that they don't rest on their laurels but instead aggressively push ahead with a set of new initiatives to strengthen the club.
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Quote:
....and for those who feel like you must sign your kid up for Cesa, CUFC or Bridge today remember Jamal Geathers and Mike Gustavson did not play for any of the above.(No - I'm not from Aiken)
While Goose never played for CESA, Jamaal and Eric did as U19's. I understand that's a technicality; but thought I'd raise it in any case.
Goose, Jamaal, Eric, and the rest of the Aiken Fire guys are not only fantastic players but are really great guys. Justin Rhodes, their coach, was also a good guy. It's easy for people to talk about how "it's all about the kids"; Justin and those guys lived it. Several years ago, they let a 4'11" 95 pound girl go to all their summer practices leading to regionals, pushed her hard, and treated her with respect -- and best of all didn't physically kill her like they easily could have. These guys are great.
If you want to tell whether a club really believes in "it's all about the kids", see how many have truly open practices and welcome any ambitious kid in regardless of dues and the like.
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Sweet feet & Happy feet:
Not related I guess. CESA folks sure get their feathers ruffled when someone gives their opinion. I think you are missing the point. I NEVER SAID CESA WOULD NOT BE GOOD, JUST NOT DOMINANT!!!! CESA held the top spots in R3 for several years. MPSC was finishing a strong second but were choosing not to play in R3 for whatever reason. The option to play in R3 was CESA. Now the option is at CUFC in almost all age groups. The options are changing for people who travel from the Charleston area. That is all I am saying.
Sweet feet: Say all you want about CASL & WAGS, but I think it is ridiculous to hang all your hopes on one tournament. What if you have a bad tournament, you are sick, you are hurt, seems to be shortsighted just for the weather and field conditions. Also, you might want to tell the 538 Women's College Coaches that attended the CASL Shootout this year your view of the fields. REMEMBER coaches don't offer who they don't see.
Soccer is a game you just have to love!!!!
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Sweet feet:
I guess you are not going to Regionals next year since they are at Raleigh. Cow pastures?
Soccer is a game you just have to love!!!!
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Quote:
Sweet feet & Happy feet:
Not related I guess. CESA folks sure get their feathers ruffled when someone gives their opinion. I think you are missing the point. I NEVER SAID CESA WOULD NOT BE GOOD, JUST NOT DOMINANT!!!! CESA held the top spots in R3 for several years. MPSC was finishing a strong second but were choosing not to play in R3 for whatever reason. The option to play in R3 was CESA. Now the option is at CUFC in almost all age groups. The options are changing for people who travel from the Charleston area. That is all I am saying.
Sweet feet: Say all you want about CASL & WAGS, but I think it is ridiculous to hang all your hopes on one tournament. What if you have a bad tournament, you are sick, you are hurt, seems to be shortsighted just for the weather and field conditions. Also, you might want to tell the 538 Women's College Coaches that attended the CASL Shootout this year your view of the fields. REMEMBER coaches don't offer who they don't see.
distant cousins!!!!
no feathers ruffled here.just stating my opinion.seems you have a wedgy(spelling)over this.
on a lighter note.if anyone knows the goalie from the bridge u-15 girls how about telling her great job.her performance with the pk's was outstanding.
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Grim
I'm just stating the facts, the fields stink. And by the way, the college coaches agree.
Disney is ranked the number one tournament for a reason, the competition/fields. Last time I looked their were a couple of college coaches roaming the sidelines.
Last time I checked the Women's ACC soccer played their finals at Disney.
Grim I do agree with you, one shouldn't put all their tournament eggs in one basket.
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If your gonna talk about the aiken fire you cant leave out Schylur Reardon....if im correct hes playing at carolina
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Quote:
....and for those who feel like you must sign your kid up for Cesa, CUFC or Bridge today remember Jamal Geathers and Mike Gustavson did not play for any of the above.(No - I'm not from Aiken)
Jamal was transplanted in Aiken from Myrtle Beach. He was the Elite player in the Lowcountry way before Aiken snatched him up. It was a good move for Jamal and a great addition to Aiken, just like players that move to the big name clubs today (CESA, CUFC and BFA) Jamal moved to the big team in his age group (he always played up in M. Beach)...No- I'm not from Myrtle Beach or Aiken.
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hf - i watched the ot/pks for the u15g finals and you're spot-on with the bridge keeper great play in goal. the cesa players pks were nice shots with plenty of pace but the bridge keeper made 3 huge saves.
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Quote:
hf - i watched the ot/pks for the u15g finals and you're spot-on with the bridge keeper great play in goal. the cesa players pks were nice shots with plenty of pace but the bridge keeper made 3 huge saves.
She is a kid that made the save, PERIOD. Give her credit
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Quote:
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hf - i watched the ot/pks for the u15g finals and you're spot-on with the bridge keeper great play in goal. the cesa players pks were nice shots with plenty of pace but the bridge keeper made 3 huge saves.
She is a kid that made the save, PERIOD. Give her credit
Sid42,
what the heck is your post about? please read my post again, i was giving the bridge keeper credit.
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letmeput:
Come on, give the kid some credit! ha ha.
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>>[HappyDaddy] I'm not sure what the fuss is about.<<
I'm not sure what "fuss" you are referring to, but the most noteworthy thing that occurred was that CESA significantly won more finalists and championship slots than would have been predicted quantitatively and by most people qualitatively. It was a surprising result -- I would have expected fewer champions by one club and more champions by others. But more importantly, I thought that the fact that both CESA and CUFC had at least the expected number of finalists was good news for both clubs. I also thought that CUFC's position as a strong #2 in terms of competing at the highest level of competition was "fuss-worthy"; as I've noted, even taking into account Bridge's entrance of two teams into USSF Academy I thought that CUFC has clearly separated itself.
>>Most of the finals were as competitive as they could be. Four were decided by kicks from the spot (a horrible way to determine a winner - but an accepted part of the game). From what I witnessed, the games were hard and fairly fought. The kids had fun. The parents were nervous wrecks (especially the parents of goalkeepers) and several people have said it was the best day of soccer they've ever witnessed. What's not to love? I'm a CUFC guy. I root for our teams. I respect what CESA has accomplished and recognize it as the most "successful" club in the state.<<
I don't think anyone would debate the merits of the play. I do find the "scare quote" usage interesting with respect to "successful."
I actually witnessed a parent of one club shake their first at a group of parents from another club and state that CESA dominance was changing when their team scored the first goal against CESA. I understood the emotion -- but not necessarily the outward expression thereof. It was amusing to me when CESA eventually won the game -- but I also recognize that my detachment would have been much more difficult to achieve if I had a child playing in that game or I had been "rooting" for the other club.
>>We've done a great job since the merger and I think the "results" gap will continue to narrow.<<
Whether CUFC has done a great job since the merger really depends upon what the goals were and whether those goals have been achieved at the club level. I've been on here several times in the last week stating I think that CUFC has certainly made achievements at all levels of soccer -- I think that it's more impressive to look at the B and C level teams and what they did from first to second year -- but I would never presume to guess whether the club has done a "great job" without understanding the expectations/goals of the club versus the actual results.
In terms of the "results" gap (those scare quotes again!) -- certainly you would expect it given the number of teams participating in challenge, relative sizes of the clubs, and the like.
>>Ultimately though, it's important to keep in mind that this isn't a competition between clubs. The sole purpose of their existence is to create an environment where our kids can play soccer, improve as they can, and have fun.<<
This is one of those statements that seem at face value to be valid, but upon closer inspection is flawed. Certainly it's a competition between clubs. You recognize that with your posts about Bridge "luring" kids and your earlier questions regarding why CESA-Columbia even exists. This is a competition among clubs attempting to secure rights to attend and compete in the best tournaments, to compete in RIIIPL-East, and the like.
Moreover, I'm pleased that CUFC is getting stronger and the games are getting closer. I think it challenges CESA to increase its services in new and innovative ways -- just as having CESA has seemingly always motivated CUFC to stretch in an attempt to offer more and better services. In the end, it's the competition not just between individuals, not just between teams, but between clubs that can help change the landscape of youth soccer in South Carolina so that our kids have more opportunities.
In terms of youth soccer, the major way to hurt kids is by limiting their choice. The best way to help kids is increasing the diversity and levels of service that we offer them. As long as we focus more on increasing services, and less on litigation and attempts to prohibit kids from attending the clubs of their choice, the better off we'll be.
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Sorry I scared you with the quotation marks. They were used because there might be a difference of opinion on what defines "success" and what defines "results."
I won't get into a point by point rebuttal. I said what I meant to say and I stand by all of it. There are differences in the cultures of the big clubs in SC. I prefer ours (CUFC). CESA's and Bridge's may suit others better. That's fine. I guess it just depends on what one's looking for.
I meant to add that I have no desire to limit anyone's choice about where to play, and don't know how you could have inferred that. As I said in the other thread, I do think clubs should refrain from recruiting. Everyone knows how to contact them.
Last edited by HappyDaddy; 12/13/07 02:38 PM.
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recruiting does occur overtly and slyly, and it also occurs due to success. if your team is good year in and year out the players will come. several york county players began migrating to cesa a couple of years ago due to the success of the team in their age group. once one went others followed. the dsc u-17 boys team is a prime example. when it won the u-13 championship all of the players were home grown. as this team continued to succeed, the players came from columbia, charlotte, knoxville, mt pleasant and st simons, ga. they came because they wanted to play with the best. why are the best college teams good year in and year out? they get the best players because the best want to play with the best. yes they are recruited, but they wouldnt go if the program was not successful. success breeds success. good players and coaches attract good players and coaches. it's real simple. cesa's u-17 keeper is from georgia. like field of dreams, if u build it they will come. if u build a successful team/program/club, u will attract good players from outside of your area. it aint rocket science. it's called business.
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I think the kid from Knoxville came because his family relocated for his father's job???....unless he had a buddy who is/was making the commute?
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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>>[HappyDaddy] Sorry I scared you with the quotation marks. They were used because there might be a difference of opinion on what defines "success" and what defines "results."<<I'm sorry; I'm obviously using terminology with which you are not familiar. From Wikipedia: Scare quotes is a general term for quotation marks used for purposes other than to identify a direct quotation. For example, authors might use quotation marks to highlight special terminology, to distance the writer from the material being reported, to indicate that it is someone else's terminology, or to bring attention to a word or phrase as questionable or at least atypical in some way. Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quote>>I won't get into a point by point rebuttal. I said what I meant to say and I stand by all of it.<<Don't let logic get in the way, huh? >>There are differences in the cultures of the big clubs in SC. I prefer ours (CUFC). CESA's and Bridge's may suit others better. That's fine. I guess it just depends on what one's looking for.<<How do you know what the differences in culture are among the big clubs in SC? I'm just wondering. How did you go about making the selection based on its culture? Did you select CUFC because of its culture, or because of its convenience, or for some other reason? This is truly fascinating stuff...I've heard lots of reasons people select clubs (social reasons, coaching, convenience, winning records) -- but I've never heard "culture." >>I meant to add that I have no desire to limit anyone's choice about where to play, and don't know how you could have inferred that. As I said in the other thread, I do think clubs should refrain from recruiting. Everyone knows how to contact them. <<I realize that you don't want to go into a point-by-point rebuttal; but if you read a bit more closely you'll see that the sentence to which you're referring is part of a paragraph that is attempting to make the point (obviously quite poorly!) that a focus on club competition (that competition which you previously rejected) is a good thing in that it increases the diversity and level of services. Trying to limit choice by either hoping other clubs will fail (e.g., your questioning of why CESA-Columbia existed a while back) or pushing for regulations that try to prevent kids from playing at other clubs (e.g., the current state rules that forbid kids choosing to play for a team when that team already consists of more than 50% of players from outside that club's district.) Actually, to put this more specifically, it's great to hope another club will fail as long as you're doing things that offer superior services so that more people want to come to your club. That's the right way to compete. On the plus side, by achieving higher numbers of finalists, CUFC will be offering a much broader ability to participate in RIIIPL-East than any club in the state other than CESA. That club-level competition is bound to be good for CUFC.
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You constantly use the word "services." Can you list all the services a club needs?
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Services. Services, services. Services, services, services. Sorry. I was just experimenting with what the constant use of the word services would entail. More seriously, I think you're onto something here. There are two models I've seen for what a club is -- a loosely-affiliated collection of teams and an organization that provides services to children. I'm sure that there are infinite shades of gray here; but for the most part you can tell by asking a few questions to which model a club adheres. Take RIIIPL-East participation. There are two ways to view this; a team earns the right to play the next year in RIIIPL-East or a club earns the right to create a team in a specific age and gender bracket to play the next year in RIIIPL-East. If you're operating under a model of a club being a loosely formed collection of teams and that teams are formed socially, then the former view holds sway. If you're operating under a model of a club providing services, then there's going to be an open tryout and based solely on merit a team will be selected that plays in RIIIPL-East based on the previous earned right. To answer you specifically, there's no way in the world I could list "all" services a club needs; it's like asking any other business to list "all" the services it might potentially provide. I can certainly give examples. Enabling kids to participate in USSF Academy or RIIIPL-East is a service to those kids that Bridge decided to provide. Providing recreational soccer is a service. Providing various levels of competitive soccer, not just at the classic, challenge, and premier levels -- but high school preparation, and social soccer (where the focus is on playing with your friends) are all services. Programs where you scrimmage colleges are services. Showcase events are services. Tournaments can be services. Help in the college recruiting process can be services. College combines can be services. TOPSoccer is a service. Types of training (Coever, etc.) are services. Open training is a service (where you open up all training to anyone in your club -- or even people outside of your club.) Organized ride sharing is a service, particularly when part of a program to reach kids that might not otherwise be able to play. Please note that I tried to use the word "service" as much as possible above. In South Carolina today, I see threee youth soccer clubs/alliances that are focusing on top-to-bottom services for kids: CESA and CUFC and the Bridge alliance. Please note that this not not solely determined as a function of size; for example, LCSC and MPSC are large "select" soccer organizations that operate more under the model of a collection of teams.
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Thank you.
The paragraph listing specific services is needed, I think, for alot of people that post on this site. Good stuff.
Alot of people think winning a few more State Cups then last year makes a club complete. It doesn't. It's the consistent offering of stuff you listed, IN ADDITION to winning, that does it. Development!
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Quote:
In South Carolina today, I see threee youth soccer clubs/alliances that are focusing on top-to-bottom services for kids: CESA and CUFC and the Bridge alliance. Please note that this not not solely determined as a function of size; for example, LCSC and MPSC are large "select" soccer organizations that operate more under the model of a collection of teams.
Not entirely true for LCSC. They are actually investing in the rec. side and sending coaches over there to help run sessions for them starting next season, I think.
Good points for your post though.
Stewie- "Where did you graduate again, university of duhhhh?"
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LCSC: My vote for the club with the most unrealized potential in the state!
Has there been any changes or is LCSC still select only and there are two other Lexington-based recreational clubs?
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If by select only, you mean trying out and being placed on a team, then yes. But they also have 4 divisions in the club: Development, Classic, Challenge, and Premier. Won't have a premier team next year, unless they can play U19 (which I don't know of any off hand) so it will go back to 3 levels.
Yeah...2 rec. clubs in Lexington County...LCGSA and LCRC (co-ed).
Lexington County has too many clubs! CUFC, LCSC, Congaree, LLSC. 2 in Richland...CUFC and CESA-Columbia. Maybe their needs to be some more merging like CSC and NESCA made CUFC. Of course I know the rule about merging...but c'mon.
Stewie- "Where did you graduate again, university of duhhhh?"
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Quote:
...Of course I know the rule about merging...but c'mon.
What rule are you referring to?
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Quote:
Lexington County has too many clubs! CUFC, LCSC, Congaree, LLSC. 2 in Richland...CUFC and CESA-Columbia. Maybe their needs to be some more merging like CSC and NESCA made CUFC. Of course I know the rule about merging...but c'mon.
Not as long as players and parents are happy with the services their respective clubs provide.
Sorry Chico no sarcasm intended.
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Well...I reckon one who is very punctilious might want to assemble some sort of empirical evidence, if possible, of what the results of state cups might be if NESCA and CSC would not have become one club. It obviuosly behooved their clubs, as well as their patrons, to dissolve and form a new club.
Stewie- "Where did you graduate again, university of duhhhh?"
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soccer63: I actually agree; so I didn't even catch the _potential_ sarcasm!
My kid played at only two select clubs: LCSC and then GFC/CESA. I am personally unhappy that my enormous property taxes pay for some of the best fields in the state 5 minutes from my home but I have had to drive her 100 miles to practice for years. But I always figured that my kid was just the minority and most people liked the approach LCSC was taking.
I know that Lexington, much like the Fort Mill area, has the talent in terms of coaching and players. And much like the Fort Mill area, there are clubs in Charlotte (in Lexington's case, this is CUFC) for most kids to go to (note: there are certainly exceptional teams at LCSC -- but for the most part these seem to be one-off.)
But until enough coaches and parents care, then I'd completely agree with your assessment -- as long as people are happy with what LCSC provides, everything is hunky dory. And heck -- unlike years ago -- for a parent who wants a "less convenient than LCSC and more convenient than CESA or Bridge" option there's now CUFC which is offering a lot of RIIIPL-East play and a lot of other services across genders and age groups.
P.S. If anyone out there ever wants to try to do something in Lexington, I'd be glad to donate to the cause!
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Chico,
Spot on, as usual.
One other note. The Fort Mill/Rock Hill area differs considerably from Lexington with respect to the boys versus the girls. the Charlotte option is very attractive for the girls all the way through U-18.
For the boys, playing in Charlotte becomes a real problem at U-15 because of the high school soccer conflict (NC HS boys soccer in the fall, NCYS club in the spring).
While, for the reasons you mention above, we would all like to see both our girls and boys play their club soccer in South Carolina, it is not as big an issue for the girls as it is for the boys.
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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