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Is it just me or is the SC Player and coach getting WAY better than previous years while the SC Official has regressed to the point where they are a laughing stock and the butt of a consistent string of run-on jokes? I saw some of the most horrendous officiating at the Palmetto Cup this weekend. That is supposed to be the finest tournament this state has to offer with the best officials. I saw blatant handballs being neglected, offsides not being called/being called inaccurately, the worst throw-in's NEVER being called, and the simplest rule in soccer not being followed: "the ball is not out until it has COMPLETELY crossed over the touch/end line". What gives? Why aren't these horrid crews held accountable for their actions? It seems like more and more often a stroke of good luck is required to win tight matches where phantom pks and phantom extra minutes of added time. You question an official and they have no clue about what is going on. What is the deal with these people? Can they not read the rule book? Are they high? Seriously, I'm looking for answers as I am a little perplexed by some of the calls and decisions I saw this weekend.

The Palmetto Cup is a great tournament and displays some of the greatest talent collections in HS soccer for the Spring Season. The last place finisher in the Palmetto Cup out-classed any bit of officiating I saw all weekend by miles. It was as if the officials have become too old and slow to keep up with the play. At what point do we sit back and say that something must be done?

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That will just about cover the fly bys


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this is very true. i did see some bad officiating this week and a top notch tournament like the Palmetto Cup should have better refs

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Ha, good point. Can't wait for all the horrible oficials to see this....let me go ahead and say it for them(as this topic arises every spring)...."Well, if you can do a better job, then get out there!.....haha, the officiating has been going downhill for the past ten years, especially in the Columbia area. I think the head of officiating needs to do more head of officiating and less coaching/tournament organizing. Those guys are jokes, no professionalism whatsoever.


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"Houston - we have a problem"

Achmed see offsides called on throw-in.

I sorry, I have to say it
"Holy Crap"


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I too ventured over to West Columbia to watch a few games in the Palmetto Cup this week and was amazed at the poor officiating.

My daughter, who played at RNE, constantly commented that the officials were making the wrong calls. Particularly in the Wando/Hanna game at Airport when the center official called a pk on the Wando goalkeeper who had come off his line, got two hands on the ball and the forward collided into/over him, but the referee was literally at midfield and came flying in to make a game-changing call. One, he was out of position, and two it was the wrong call as the keeper had every right to the ball and claimed it going straight ahead and leading with his hands. Geesh, since when can keepers not challenge for a 50/50 ball?

In another match, the center official seemed extremely whistle-happy and simply wanted to see how many times he could blow his whistle. He blew it non-stop in a distinctively irritating shrill and postured around like a banty rooster. He clearly does not abide by the "best official is one that is not noticed" moniker.

All in all, I thought the few games that I watched were quite good and I continue to be amazed at the better level of play now in comparison to just 5-7 years ago when my kids were active. I would agree that the players and coaching have improved, but the officials have refused to do so.


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It's getting so bad that even soccer moms know more than the refs..lol

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I saw a keeper carded and a PK awarded in one of our games early in the season for the same sort of thing. Granted, I was on the far end of the field, but all I saw was her coming out hard for a 50/50. The call was in my team's favor, but even my forwards said later that they weren't sure why she was carded. Later in the same game, my keeper came out and slid for a ball...the ball bounced out, the attacker continued through, and my keeper took a shot to the ribs that left her curled up on a little ball on the field. No call, no stoppage of play, and a subsequent shot on an open goal that won the game while she was still laid out on the turf.

Can we get a ruling on a keeper's rights to come out and get the ball from someone with authority? In a one-on-one, I've always taught my keepers to come out and take the ball before the attacker can take the easy shot...it concerns me, though, when I see keepers carded for doing just that, and not being protected from attackers who try to plow through regardless of the keeper's possession of the ball.


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I too went out to the Palmetto Cup this weekend. The officiating was awful through and through. At the semi-final at AHS between SV and Eastside the center official awarded a PK to SV with 1 minute left in Regulation...1 MINUTE? Unless it is a totally rash challenge why would you decide to be the show and influence the outcome of the game? I could understand all this if Sean Flynn didn't go up to the official after the game and embrace him like a father figure. It was actually quite disturbing. Is that really supposed to be what the game is all about? Who you know?

I also saw some of the worst throw-ins ever! What is it with this helicopter spinner that I see all the time? It's straight back and over-the-head...nothing sideways and the motion must be one at all times...none of this start and stop crap that I keep seeing all over the place.

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There was no penalty awarded in OT. The penalty came with a couple of minutes left in regulation, about two minutes after a penalty had been awarded to Eastside.

I absolutely agree with your comments regarding throw-ins. I also agree with the general concerns and observations expressed in this thread. The officiating is very poor. Like it or not though, the problem is the pool of referees is much smaller than it needs to be. I don't know what needs to be done to increase the number and quality of available officials. It is a serious problem that is badly detracting from the game. I hope it is being evaluated and solutions considered.

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After one particularly bad match, I saw a coach pick up a cell phone and run over to the official who was packing up to leave. The coach handed him the phone and said "Hey, this must be yours" The official smirked and asked "what makes you think that's my phone?" "Easy" the coach replied, "It says you have ten missed calls!"


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In the Myrtle Beach area I've heard that we are limited in numbers. I think around 25-30. And most games only have 2 refs. I don't think we have played a local match with 3. I hear there are teams in the area that always have 3. When you don't have 3 it puts teams at a disadvantage by not having the head in the middle. No high school match should be played without 3, and esp. a ref should not be allowed to do so when he has ties to a team, rather it be a child playing in the same region or some other ties to a school. And I know the arguement will be made that refs are not to show any bias toward any team, but soccer is an emotional game and it happens. So what is the answer? I think in this area we need more people that have a love for the game and no ties to a team to come out and be refs. I guess that is easier said than done. This area definitely needs some help maybe a overhaul. Don't get me wrong there are a few in this area that are very good and consistant with their calls.

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The Myrtle Beach area is third only to Columbia and Rock Hill areas for incompetent officiating! I know that there is a lot of "in-breeding" amongst officials in the Rock Hill and Grand Strand area as well and lots of former players from those respective schools now officiating and still harboring obvious hate for certain rivals and even "out of area" teams. It's a travesty to be sure!

I agree that three officials should be mandatory!


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Most of the time the "head ref" in a game is the one with the "most experience". There is never going to be any improvement until this mindset changes. My husband refs-has for 6 years, but because he is oftentimes the one there with the "least experience" he is overlooked on calls. He calls some of the better games in our area-and-god forbid- will admit if he misses a call. Perhaps the ones with the most experience need to be the ones whose competence should be checked most often. Perhaps their years=bad eyesight or lethargy?????


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I've been hearing for several years how there simply are not enough ref's around and both in club ball and high schools have to take basically what they can get. From what I've seen this must be true because I see the same 8 or 10 ref's over and over in club and high school ball.

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Well in the spring in SC high school ball should get refs first.

I was at the PC finals who was the clown with pink on his adidas shoes?


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I went to the finals as well to watch Spring Valley. They are good!

We laughed at the linesman with the pink shoes. What a douche!

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I saw pinky. I believe his name is Jeremy Brooks. I typed up his name in google and here was the first image that came up.

Strange.



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Same old, same old. It's a good ol' boys club. Those that have been here for years, get the games. Look at the girls 4A state final last year. The forth official (the assignor and assesors) sho only has to control the coaching boxes and count subs, allowed wando to play with 12 players for somewhere between 3 - 7 of the last 12 minutes of a 1 - 0 game. You coule be a great ref who just moved in from out of state an only get lines. It's a joke!!!!
And yes, 3 refs should be mandatory. Of course, then the refs in a 2 man system couldn't blame each other for the bad calls.


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As a coach, I constantly teach my kids the importance of not blaming the refs. When we do that, we give them reasons other than themselves for why they lost the game. In my many years of coaching, I have never had a ref cost me a game. In fact, last year we lost in the playoffs 2-1. The goal was scored on a breakaway in which the kid was 5-10 feet offsides. The ref missed it and it cost us the game. However, we had ample opporunities in the game to score other goals. Was I upset about the call, yes. Did that one moment cost us the game, NO.
Refs are people too that make mistakes. When you get a chance, count the number of missed traps, bad passes, bad shots, missed shots, poor choices, etc... your players, kids, or yourself make during the course of a game. Compare that to the number of mistakes a ref makes. I hope you all see what I am saying.
Do we have some refs who need rediscover the rules and love for the game? Yes.
Do we have some refs that really need to retire? Yes.
Do we need to continually bash these people that provide a service to your school? No.
Instead of focusing on their mistakes, start telling them it was a good call even if it is against your team. I guarantee your opinion of them will get better. They may even end up being a better official.
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WOW! Did you really just post that crap? Your great teaching logic is great....for 8 year olds. We are speaking about not just high school, but matches that actually matter. I don't care how many officials there are, there is no excuse for not noticing or calling a bad throw in(just one example). The mistake theory, yeah, great, nobody is perfect. But to compare the mistake of a bad trap(a physical mistake by a growing, learning teenager) to the mental mistake of no call/bad call/blatantly not knowing the rules of the game from a trained, certified adult is bull.
I am absolutely positive that there are very few, if any, coaches out there that blame a bad outcome of a game on the officials. Calling bad officiating bad officiating is one thing, blaming a lose on the officials is another.
One last thought....when one of your kids does something wrong, but the officials do not call him on it, do you step in and correct him, or let him beleive that becuase the official didn't say anything he is right? If you go one way, you and the official are reinforcing bad play, if you go the other, you are doing exactly what you are trying to tell us we are wrong for doing, which is that there is bad officiating.


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Quote:

As a coach, I constantly teach my kids the importance of not blaming the refs. When we do that, we give them reasons other than themselves for why they lost the game. In my many years of coaching, I have never had a ref cost me a game. In fact, last year we lost in the playoffs 2-1. The goal was scored on a breakaway in which the kid was 5-10 feet offsides. The ref missed it and it cost us the game. However, we had ample opporunities in the game to score other goals. Was I upset about the call, yes. Did that one moment cost us the game, NO.
Refs are people too that make mistakes. When you get a chance, count the number of missed traps, bad passes, bad shots, missed shots, poor choices, etc... your players, kids, or yourself make during the course of a game. Compare that to the number of mistakes a ref makes. I hope you all see what I am saying.
Do we have some refs who need rediscover the rules and love for the game? Yes.
Do we have some refs that really need to retire? Yes.
Do we need to continually bash these people that provide a service to your school? No.
Instead of focusing on their mistakes, start telling them it was a good call even if it is against your team. I guarantee your opinion of them will get better. They may even end up being a better official.
Most people prefer sugar to vinegar.




It makes sense. We can't all be perfect all the time. Mistakes happen, and those who make them too often should consider moving on. I know, having worked as one myself, it's not a whole lot of fun learning a new trade while everyone expects you to be flawless while having their own subjective opinion of every call made.

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I will say this.
My biggest issue with "some" refs is inconsistancy.
If a refs consistantly calls or doesn't calls something, the coaches can adjust to it. It is when there is no rhyme or reason to the calls. Some allow the game to be more physical, some interpret handling the ball as gaining an advantage, etc. that is fine, as long as you call it the same every time.
My biggest beef is seeing the same refs at every big game. The whole "seniority" over ability drives me nuts. If the ref in the center never leaves the center, I don't care if you have known him for 30 years, he shouldn't be in the middle.


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Not to even mention that they are being paid to do a job. I know they don't make much and all that - but they are paid. If I do a bad job I usually hear about it - are these guys really held accountable or does their little insider fraternity pretty much protect them?

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Feel some blame can be placed on the assessment phase. One, more games should be assessed and assessed with high standards, not worrying about hurting someone's feelings. Second, coaches should have an avenue to grade/assess. Feedback should be a criticial component of a ref's development.


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the problem that comes up with assessment though is how biased some coaches will assess, that is if you're implying that coaches do the assessment. If a team win a game because their player fell in the box, happened to be next to a defender but didn't touch him, and the ref calls the PK with only 3 minutes left, how do you think that coach's assessment will be??? and what about the losing coach??? Now if coaches can put the feelings and emotions of the game aside and do a real assessment of the referee regardless of personal anger at the moment, then it might work, but the trust issue comes up. And how will the league be able to grade Ref Doe, when coach John gave him an A+ since he won, and the losing coach gave him and F because that questionable call cost him the game???? Now refs do need to be graded or something so that they can do a better job, but how can we do that without worrying about bias, favoritism and such???


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In my opinion the officiating in this state is getting so bad that winning a state championship may come down to questionable calls. I know that games are won and lost because of bad officiating every week. The fact of the matter is that no one is willing to admit that these officials are awful. You see some of them out there and you just cringe because you know the official will become the entire "show" and it's almost like he/she wants to be. This is what makes people upset.

Don't give me that "they provide a service" crap. They get paid and paid well, especially since they get mileage now. For example, if you live outside of 20 miles from Columbia and ref a JV-Varsity match up or two varsity games in one night. You're almost getting paid 100 dollars for 160 minutes of work. Doctors provide a service...if you go in for a physical and the doctor takes off a testicle are you going to be mad? I assume you're going to say "o well he provides a service, I shouldn't question his ability. I can live without a testicle and get made fun of my whole life." If you're going to do a job, do it right and by the rules set forth to undertake that job. If you can't do it right, you should be held accountable. This is the problem. There's no way to hold these tools accountable for trying to change the outcomes of matches.

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One thing I would like to see is that refs are only allowed to ref the same school a limited # of games. And also a ref should not be able to ref in the state finals if he has ref'd for either of the schools that happen to be playing for the championship. Maybe take it a step further, bring in out of state refs. for championship games. Give us the Ga. or NC refs and we will send ours to them. There was a ref last year that ref'd the championship game and had ref'd one of the teams regular season games and some things had been said or done in the regular season game that affected the championship game. I'm not saying he allowed the outcome to be what it was, but there were many questionable calls made. This is all about the kids and that should be respected. It should never turn into a situation where feelings about one person or another has a affect on the game, esp. the flow of the game.

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In my 10 or so years of coaching, which includes JV Boys and Girls and Varsity girls, I can honestly say that I have only seen a handful of games that a team lost as a result of the officiating. Refs make bad calls but don't determine the outcome of most games. We usually don't hear about the blown 1v1 or missed marking assignment that gave up a goal. If you don't like the refs, get out there and take the class and the test and become one yourself. If you think you could do a better job....

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the problem with assessments is that the assessments are being done by the same people assigning these refs.
Jaguar,
I like the idea of coaches having a say. I have heard of states that let the coaches give 5 recommendations for the tournament. then the assignors work off of that list for centers. the reason refs don't want that is because you would break the system of "seniority". To be honest, I think coaches will be a lot more open minded then the assignors are. Plus, it would prevent "coasting" by officials through the regular season because they already know they are going to get playoff/champoinship games. If they know the coaches are going to have a say, they may be a bit more polite and work a little harder.


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Glad to see I added to the controversey. Understand, I am not saying the officiating in our state doesn't need improvement. I am obviously originally from Ohio and if you visited the forums up their you would hear the same thing regarding their refs. My first couple of years of coaching up their I constantly felt like the refs hated our team. Come to find out, they mostly did due to the reputation of the previous coach and the girls coach, the number of cards, etc. I worked diligently to change the attitude of my parents, players, and fans. Over time, even my parents started commenting that we seemed to be getting better calls and better refs. The funny thing is they were the same refs, only we were treating them differently. One of them actually even said he didn't dread having our games anymore.
Officiating is not an easy job.
If I see one of my kids get away with a foul, I do say something to them. Not right then, but during a break in action, half, end of game. I teach my kids to play until the whistle blows. If they get away with it, they do, but it doesn't make it right.
My point once again is to stop blaming refs. If we lose a close game and their were some questionable calls, I never say the ref took that away from us. I put the responsibility back on myself and my players and ask. What could we have done differently to change the outcome?
I totally agree with having a better system of evaluation. But even then you run into the friends network.

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Missed 1v1s and blown assignments? That's part of the game! An official blatantly not calling a handball when he is standing infront of it staring at the event take place is just criminal. Not calling bad helicopter throw-ins? Unacceptable. AR's not knowing that the rule clearly states that the ball must be COMPLETELY over the line before it is deemed out? It's like they don't even read or understand the rules. Offsides on throw-ins? Wow? I completely agree with most people in this thread. Something must be done in the way these officials are assessed and educated. I understand mistakes but I do ask that they correct them.


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Nothing is worse than a foul in the box being called by a 2 man ref system with the ref trailing the play by 20 yards making the call while the other that has a much clearer view doesn't make a call. Have seen it for and against our team this season and 9 times out of 10 it is made by "The Shows all about me" ref !!!!

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CID, I agree that if the league puts some kind of grading/ assessment scale, the refs will actually try and call a game fairly or at least make an effort to do the right thing. and the coach recommendations is not too bad of an idea. Also, its not that we're condemning the refs for making mistakes. But like shut^ said, when you blatantly miss calls like a side throw in or a blatant hand or the player falls and you're 30 yards on the other side of town, and call a PK because you assume that the defender pushes the kid, then we have issues. Will refs make mistakes? of course they will. Buit what do you want me to tell my team??/ back off the other team because the ref hates us for what happened 5 years ago, and let them run through you so we wont get a card????


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trust me, i am not backing the officials. in general, they are pretty bad. there just need to be some sort of assessment that is out of the hands of the current assignors/assessors. the coaches would be a good start.


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^^^^^^

it sure would be but i seriously doubt the league will even let an idea like that get any life, i mean it's soccer we're talking about here


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i would have to say that officiating is getting worse. I can think of 2 situations where refs were being one-sided and didn't call any red card offenses. 1st horrible call would ahve to be when wando played beaufort high in 2006.. defender for beaufort faked out the wando striker... while defender was pulling away the striker grabbed his jersey and pulled him down to the ground. All beaufort players were waiting for a call to what was the most obvious call anyone has ever seen. striker took the ball crossed it in had a man coming back post who put the ball away at 90 minutes to win the game 3-2. total crap


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2nd offense was at summerville where Beauforts forward completely dribbled the whole midfeild... had the last defender to beat. Beat the last defender to only have the defender slide him from behind. Now i was under the impression that an offense like that was punishable under a red card. the defender only recieved a yellow and continued play. im pretty sure theres a rule for a last defender foul.


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i have read about other parts of the state, but not about the lower state. any comments?


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depends what part. The refs for our home games are from Bluffton/Hilton Head/ Beaufort and they're pretty decent. Miss the occasional offsides and others but no blatant pathetic calls, at least not yet


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Sam Chester, I'm from the Myrtle Beach area so feel free to read my two prior posts on pages 2 and 3.

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we had a game tonight and there was an incident with me and the ref. I disputed a call, respectfully, and the ref started yelling at me pointing to his cards, so i said ok thats fine, but it was still a questionable call. He comes towards me at the sideline and is stil yelling telling me to be quiet or get carded. Of course i dont appreciate the fact he's yelling, so i said im just letting you know what hapened. He carded me, which i probably deserved. When he cards me, he's still yelling, i said play the game, sat down on my bench. He comes off the field and gets right in front of me in the bench and keeps yelling telling me he can kick me out of here. So, my thing is what can i do about that?? Second time he's yelled, first time at my player.


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I feel the officials in the Low-Country are good. They are fair and they are good at managing the coaches. The key is we don't expect perfection from coaches, we don't expect perfection from players, but we do expect perfection from officials. We all strive for perfection, but it is hard to reach. Ever consider the officials are also trying for perfection. Regardless, my main concern is the safety of my players. If officials keep the game clean, the balance of the calls is irrelevant to me (my assistant disagrees!). The guys down here do a good job.

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Couple years ago I got a yellow for dissent as well. My situation was pretty stupid too. When the ball went out of bounds I was signaling the call on ours to get my kids to make quick throws. The ref comes over and says let me ref the game, you coach. My comment back was simply, I'm trying to get my kids to play quick. He says not another word. I say yes sir. He walks over and gives me a yellow card. My jaw about dropped as did my players. My assistant walks over and asks what did you get a yellow card for? I said I wasn't sure.
Obviously we have some guys in our state who either bring their bad day to the pitch or they are on power plays, or want to be the show. That was in Loris, so I assume the ref was from the beach.
When we went to NMB this year for their tourney, I thought the officiating was pretty consistent and good.
In the Pee Dee region we have a fair number of good refs who call it pretty close. We have a few who could use a refresher course in the rules, but again, I try to focus on what we can do to win rather on hoping the calls go our way.
I think we have a society that always wants to place the blame on someone else. The ref is an easy scapegoat. I see it in almost every sport. My students who play football will come in after losing a game and say the ref didn't make any calls our way. They would lose 44-14. Basketball players too after losing by 20.

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What if you lose 2-1 to a tough team because someone disallows a goal by calling offsides on a throw-in? HINT: THERE ARE NO OFFSIDES ON A THROW-IN.

What do you do?

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Situations like that may occur. Remember my story about losing 2-1 in the playoffs last year. Look at the big picture though. What kind of ref were they the rest of the game? If they are consistently missing calls or seem to be one sided, request your assigner not use them at your games anymore. I have done that when I felt a ref was not objective.
In the offsides situation, it only applies to the person who receives the ball. Once they receive the ball anybody who is beyond the ball is now offsides and if the ball is passed to them they are offsides. Not knowing the full scope of the situation, I'm not sure how to make the call.

What do you do? Live with it and remember to carry your rule book with you and let your assigner know. If it is your assigner, let them know at the league office. Losing your temper and yelling at the ref is just going to make matters worse. You are not going to change his/her mind by screaming at them. If anything, they are probably going to hate you that much more.
All yelling and screaming does is makes you lose your voice.

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I'm not looking for perfection, because I'll never find it in anything in this world. The only thing I'm looking for is a fair shake and a little respect in all aspects of the game from refs - rankings. Socastee seems to always be treated like the red headed step child, (my respect to any red headed step children out there) but they do not recieve any. What Coach Suarez has accomplished there(3 state appearances in 5 yrs) is amazing considering he never has more than 4-5 club players during any given season. And to be able to compete @ the level that they do it's a great accomplishment. As far as the rankings go the past two years they start out #2 and as soon as they lose a game they drop 2 or 3 spots. And other teams if they lose they stay in the top 3. Well I guess it really doesn't matter in the big picture. The main thing is that the team shows up, plays hard and hopefully they can pull out the W. Maybe being the underdog is not such a bad thing. But just like the other top teams in the state everybody likes to be appreciated and acknowledged. After all were talking about a game that children are involved in and it is after all just a game, a very beautiful game I might add! Cheers to the players of the game!

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you know i asked one of the side refs last night if there was offsides on throw-ins just to see what he says, and i kid you not he said "if he's not too far ahead of the defense then no, but if he's reasonably ahead of the defense, then yes it would be offsides" .......And when we had free kicks and one of my players asked direct or indirect, the ref said "just kick the ball"


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I have noticed that the overall level of officiating in soccer has decreased over the past several years . . .
HOWEVER -
as far as Palmetto is concerned, we have received better officials as we have improved as a program. When we play another top team (especially in Region) we seem to receive the better officials. When we play teams that are down and not as highly ranked, we get officials who are not as qualified. Now that we are considered one of the top teams in Upper State, we get better assignments of officials.
Second Thing - Palmetto had a reputation for years as being "tough" on officials. As that has changed (with fans, coaches, and players), it is amazing how the attitude towards us has also changed by the officials. They should not carry those thoughts onto the field, but just as every comment on this board is biased to a degree . . . Oh, well, nuff said!


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those referee responses even made me cringe!!!


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How far ahead is too far?
"Just kick the ball!"
LOL
I wonder how many refs read this? Does it encourage them to become better refs or cause them to be more lax?

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Well, the whole point of the thread is to encourage better officiating throughout the state.

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Quote:

Well, the whole point of the thread is to encourage better officiating throughout the state.




Well, if that is really the case, you sure went about it in the wrong way. What it was and has been is blast away with no plausible encouragement to better officiating. Fire them all, get rid of the dead weight and put an end to soccer in the state, except for those rare few schools that are part of the good ole boy system that seem to get the better officials, game in and game out.

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Then what is the way to go about it? There are people who are on a power trip with no repercussions. Something has to be done. Putting their A on blast is the only way. Call it public awareness message

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I take exception to the blast away with no plausible encouragement.
I have been and will continue to be the objective voice of reason. I have not blasted, but have encouraged people to think through their comments and game behavior toward the ref.

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Exception noted.

How to go about it, I don't know...just like most of the you make the call questions, it depends. If you're in a position to influence change, then influence change, if not shut^&play.

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Every year this same thing comes up. There are good refs and there are refs that a horrible. The good ones are rarely noticed, and the bad ones rarely decide a game, they just get everyone p**sed off. They make calls equally bad in both directions. The question is how to get consistently better refereeing, and identify those that are capable and encourage them to keep coming out.
How about each coach from each match turning in a review (ok, the winner thinks he's great, and the loser gives him zero's) but combine these with actual reviews from random, impartial and knowledgeable observers. Then add a written test for knowledge to get a class rating similar to coaching. If a school wants a class 'A' ref to center in their games, let them charge an extra dollar for admission and give the extra $100 to the ref. In most instances, you get what you pay for. I say we figure out how to identify excellence and pay for it.


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Last night I had one of my girls get pushed off the field past the bench into the fence. I could see it from the opposite side of the field. No call from near side ref or far side ref. I argued my point about protecting my players to no avail. Was told that they could not call a foul because the ball was dead and they could either call a foul or give a yellow card. I said pull the yellow card then. He then proceeded to tell me that I would be protecting my players from the parking lot if I said one more word!! Something has to be done!!!

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Another situation where having 3 ref (a center) would probably help. If the ref is any good, they would be pretty close to that kind of play. in a 2 man system, it is possible for the nearest ref to be 40 - 50 yards away. how can you really call anything from that distance?


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I would be more than happy to put up the website to post reviews/assessments. Being a ref for the past 3 years I would love to get some constructive on-going feedback. I will check into getting a list of refs and assignors.


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Officiating is a tough deal for the High School refs. They do not get the center, and have 50 - 500 people looking on with"super fan goggles", not much unlike "beer goggles". I.E. you see what you want. Wishing officiating would get better, how would, could we the coaches and fans work toward a better end? _itching is not getting us anywhere.

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look at the IHSA (illinois high school association) website. If you can get into the official area, you can see that we are rated by other officials and coaches. www.ihsa.org


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Officials let to much go in high school ball..Players would not get away with some of these antics in club ball.
Ankle hackers and players running thru players..I would say there are more injuries during H.S.ball than in the fall when we play club..A beauiful game? When teams are made up of mostly club players you see a game but most of the time it's just ankle hackers and everything is over the top.
Why don't they blow the whistle? Because the whistle would never leave their mouths

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I have a question...

Are there "Do-Over" throw-ins in HS soccer for a foul throw?

I could swear there isn't but saw a bench almost get carded when they went ballistic on an official who gave the opposing team a do-over...

Sad.

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No do-overs.


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I think there is a do-over if the ref had held up play before the throw-in and the player took the throw-in before the ref signaled to resume play.

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^^^^

only in that instance, but the example shut^&play put, it shouldn't be a do-over if you mess up on an initial throw in. At least thats what i've been taught. Once we're able to grade officials, then it will eliminate some issues. But the other issue that will come up is where are we going to get more officials from??? there's already some areas in the state that lack enough officials. We've been fortunate to have 3 at all our games so far, but if there's a limited number of refs in that area, and 25% get failing grades, where do we go to make up for them?


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When can we rate the coaches? Some of the ones that I've seen down here in the Low Country are terrible, all they do is yell at players and they do not give them positive feedback, everything is negitive.

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you can start another thread with that one...

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not sure if i mind the refs not calling some of the slide tackles and collisions in the middle of the field but when they won't call a blatant and obvious foul from behind, in the box, really ticks me off. also, it would seem there are about 6 different definitions of the off sides rule circulating between refs. i really wish someone would show them a rule book and describe how to make an accurate off sides call.


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You can do that as soon as you learn to spell.


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Quote:

When can we rate the coaches? Some of the ones that I've seen down here in the Low Country are terrible, all they do is yell at players and they do not give them positive feedback, everything is negitive.






That's with the school's AD and that's a matter that can be taken care of with the AD and the coach, not the league


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which word did i misspell?....


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I was checking the Arbiter (the website for requesting/assigning/listing officials) this morning when I noticed a link I had overlooked before: "Evaluate Officials."

Being the curious sort, and in light of the recent discussions here, of course I clicked it.

I was greeted, in bright red, by the statement, "No evaluations need to be filled out."

And an "Exit" button.

Kinda figure that says it all.


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Is the coach of a team that might have lost the best person to evaluate a referee that might have made several calls the coach was not happy about?

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Sometimes not; depends on the coach and how objective he/she can be regardless of wins or losses. In an ideal world, the same person parents trust to educate and mold their children in the ways of sportsmanship wouldn't be the one to turn losing into a sour grapes vendetta against an official who was doing his job to the best of his ability. But then, I know we don't live in an ideal world.

Of course, the coach who may have just won and is grateful for the calls that went in his favor might not be the best person for the evaluation either...

Or the parents in the stands who want their kids to win and whose deepest understanding of the rules is, "we're supposed to get the ball!"

Or the players on the field who are competing not only with each other but with all manner of teenage struggles that may affect their objectivity...

Or even the other officials, who will probably not want to cause dissention amid the ranks and need to protect themselves from retaliatory bad evaluations...

Let's see...who does that leave?


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That's always the issue isn't it? The only independent system I know of is the assessor, and even those opinions are tempered. I have had several assessments and found them valuable, but outside creating an independent entity for grading officials it would be difficult to get an unbiased opinion as to the quality of a game that was officiated. Even then, you would have to have an official or a former offical do the evaluation as many of the coaches are not familiar with FIFA or HS rules. Any constructive suggestions would be welcome.

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to be fair most high-school refs are not very good

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How is that fair? Have you had "most high school refs" officiate your games? If you think that you can do a better job, take a course and become part of the solution. Frankly, I do not think that you will last a season when you find out what you have to deal with. Screaming coaches, obnoxious fans, and teenagers that apparently have not had much parenting based on their level of respect. We welcome your involvement.

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Quote:

If you think that you can do a better job, take a course and become part of the solution




Achmed thinks that silly thing to say. Most of us peasants contribute to soccer in many ways already and not have time to ref.
Holy Crap - If doctor looks at Achmed’s toe when Achmed has sore throat, is Achmed not allowed to complain? Or does Achmed need doctor degree before complaining.
Why is it when good ref is around, there is not so much screaming coaches, obnoxious fans and badly parented teenagers?
If you did not want to go into the desert, why did you get on camel?


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I don't think there is any practical way to have an evaluation system that is based only on unbiased opinions...there aren't nearly enough of those to go around. Then again, I don't think there's anyone who is checking evaluations who would be silly enough to base an assessment on a couple of coaches who just lost, either. I suspect that if you took evaluations from a large enough sampling of people who witnessed the same official in action, the composite of their opinions would be somewhere nearing the truth. To say that we can't use any coach's opinions because one by itself is biased is like saying we can't let anyone vote because one person isn't qualified to pick a candidate.

For the record, the officials I've met and have respect for outnumber the ones I have had serious issues with. The difference is, the best officials often go completely unnoticed, while those who make bad mistakes invariably call attention to themselves.


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In order to complain, Achmed must not only become a doctor, but a throat specialist and a toe specialist. Otherwise, how does Achmed know that the toe-bone is not connected to the throat-bone?


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Achmed had a premature detonation. Now my toe-bone is connected to my throat-bone.


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I knew a coach who had a premature detonation...but that was because his head-bone was connected with his tail-bone...


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Head-bone connected to his tail-bone. That's good stuff. We should add that to the childrens song.

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Why are soccer ref's such thin skinned pansies? I was at a game last night where a ref stopped a game & told the home coach that he had to tell his fans to stop yelling at the ref's. He said if it continued that he would kick them out or stop the game. There were no obscenities yelled. Just typical crowd response when there is an obvious offsides or handball. Our goalie said that during the game, after a bad call, she glared at the ref. The ref yelled at her to not look at him like that when he makes a call. I guess maybe he got his feelings hurt when a FIFTEEN year old girl looked at him sternly. If these pansies can't handle criticism, they need to find a different line of work. Can you imagine if they reffed a baketball/football game?

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Hey!!! What happen to my 3 stars?

Achmed been good. Why you take my stars?
You bad man, you very bad man


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Quote:

Why are soccer ref's such thin skinned pansies? I was at a game last night where a ref stopped a game & told the home coach that he had to tell his fans to stop yelling at the ref's. He said if it continued that he would kick them out or stop the game. There were no obscenities yelled. Just typical crowd response when there is an obvious offsides or handball. Our goalie said that during the game, after a bad call, she glared at the ref. The ref yelled at her to not look at him like that when he makes a call. I guess maybe he got his feelings hurt when a FIFTEEN year old girl looked at him sternly. If these pansies can't handle criticism, they need to find a different line of work. Can you imagine if they reffed a baketball/football game?




Sounds to me like you had a case of the official with the chemical imbalance. Heh, ya'll probably think I'm kidding about him having a chemical imbalance but really he does! Didn't Kyle Heise get thrown out of his pressbox last year during conversation with an official BEFORE the 2nd half of a JV scrimmage for not stopping the clock with two minutes left or something? It's SAD.


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BEST ONE EVER!!!
My husband refs in Florence. He went to watch a match between West Florence and Wilson after he finished calling his game in Darlington. They had a 2 man system in the game. He stood by the sidelines and watched the last 9 minutes of the game. After the game was over,he was talking to the refs that called the game when one of the parents from the losing team came over and told the three of them that they had called the worst game they had ever seen. 2 of them were blind and the other couldn't see. Okay-so lets get this straight-the parent had watched the whole game and didn't even realize that there were only 2 refs on the field?? This is exactly why parents just need to be quiet. Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt...


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Is Achmed a ref?

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No! But I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night


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The 2 ref system is do to the fact there are not enough refs in some areas and some schools don't want pay for 3 refs, But I bet you that these same schools would not want 2 refs for basketball or 4 officials for football. Soccer is not very high on the ladder to most ADs.

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I agree with this. Pay them more. I read in "The State" once the pay rates of refs in the state. I don't remember exactly, but im pretty sure football refs are paid more than $200 a game while soccer is less than $100, closer to $50 I think. I could be wrong with these numbers, but I know there is a tremendous difference in the pay rates.
But as refs are paid more, they need to be taught better. We complain on these boards day in and day out that the refs are horrible. So if we pay them more they need to be properly prepared, b/c as it is, any one with $50 and a weekend can ref a soccer game.


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I think paying refs more would just result in more officials who don't know what they are doing. There would be more just doing it for the money.
What we really need is people who truly care about the sport that are students of the game.
We also need to train our parents and fans to come to the games to cheer on the players not demean the refs.
We all need to understand this: If a parent is demeaning a ref, think what they are saying about certain players, the coaches, etc. If they are willing to say things about perfect strangers, they are probably going to be saying things about others.
A book that I am reading says the most successful people look for positive ways to solve problems without hurting the people involved.
I think some people on this forum are truly looking for a solution to our problem while others just want a forum to rant and rave.
Which are you?

Watch a football game sometime. Higher pay has not led to better reffing.

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I don't really think money is the solution.

In a day where a ref works a JV & V set of matches, I believe the pay is probably in the range of $70-$80 for the set, plus mileage. Remove the mileage and deal with only the actual payment for the games, even on the low end $70 for the night.

JV game, 1 hour and 10 min of "work"
Varsity game, 1 hour and 30 min of "work"
pre and post game, 1 hour of "work"

Works out to be approximately $19 per hour. What other "part time profession" requires 1 hour of classroom instruction, pass a test, and less than $50 of admin costs each year, but pays more than $19 per hour?

Many who hang it up tire with the assignment process, working a terrible 2 man system, and spectators who feel it's their right to demean the referees.

Fix the people and the social aspect of how they attend the games, and what is deemed to be acceptable behavior, and you may fix the issue. Each year, in addition to soccer matches, I attend several HS football games and basketball games, and with the exception of the rare instance of the "loud mouth" person demanding the refs head, it's not the same. But attend any soccer match, and often times it's all you hear. Better yet, go to what you feel is a competitive soccer match in your area, where you don't really have a personal connection, and just watch and evaluate how you are as a spectator, compared to those that night. It can be eye opening.

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Good point..
Soocer games bring smaller crowds and the spectators can get closer to the fields than say football..I think there is ranting and raving at football but those get lost in the bigger crowd noise and they are not on top of you like in soccer..Refs have never costs us a game and we could not play without them..Next time your team gets a BAD call do the same thing you do when your team gets away with one...
Keep your mouth shut!!

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We had good reffing(sp) last night. Jeremy Wills and John Taverina (not sure if I spelled that correctly).

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Bear,

Your "assessment" for part time employment, and the training for officials is way off!!
At a minimum, a high school official must complete a 3 day training to become a grade 8 official and to even be eligible to officiate high school. Secondly, he must renew his license
with an eight hr class each year. Third, he has to attend 2 high school league classes each year before the high school season begins, and yes, they have to pass a test each time they take a class.

Just wanted to let you know what requirements had to be completed before they could officiate.

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This should be good...Waiting?!

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Me too!!!!! If 24/7 only knew

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24/7,

Respectfully, I disagree, but I could be wrong, god knows I am whenever I referee a match.

I'm pretty sure that USSF certification is not a requirement to be a HSL certified soccer referee. However, it may be "required" by the local referee assignor. Be that as it may, I thought grade 8 USSF certification is not a 3 day training class, but total of 8 hours, re-cert being 4 hours. As for the HSL classes, I only had to attend 1, 1 hour class each year and pass a test.

Just wanted to explain my understanding of the requirements.

So, remove the requirements piece because you can easily look up the various requirements, is there anything else about my assessment of part time employment that is off?

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eight hours is correct...

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To go along with this, each ref is required to do 2-3 pre-season scrimmages for no pay at all. If you ask most refs, they do not do this for the money. The money is nice, but most do it for the love of the game. I played for 15 years, but i'm not able to anymore and this is a good way to stay connected with the game of soccer.

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Quote:

To go along with this, each ref is required to do 2-3 pre-season scrimmages for no pay at all. If you ask most refs, they do not do this for the money. The money is nice, but most do it for the love of the game. I played for 15 years, but i'm not able to anymore and this is a good way to stay connected with the game of soccer.




DITTO! ! !

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What's the deal with hiring three refs or two for a game? Financial only? It creates a distinct advantage for a "home" team that gets three refs for every game. Do the refs make the same money for those games?


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This won't get any kudos from coaches, but I have been pleasantly surprised at the quality of refs (except during our losses of course). Pretty consistent, few cards and all earned.


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Quote:

To go along with this, each ref is required to do 2-3 pre-season scrimmages for no pay at all. If you ask most refs, they do not do this for the money. The money is nice, but most do it for the love of the game. I played for 15 years, but i'm not able to anymore and this is a good way to stay connected with the game of soccer.




This is an area/assignor requirement. The simple answer is, the SCHSL says no referees are required for a scrimmage. Heard it from Roger Hazel directly. So, yes area referee pools use it to get the referees ready for the season also. And yes, many referees do the scrimmages for free. That said, there are also some referees that don't do scrimmages, but still do games during the season.

I agree, with most referees it's not about the money, but there are some. My response so far has been linked to the comment, pay them more and you will get better referees.

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Quote:

What's the deal with hiring three refs or two for a game? Financial only? It creates a distinct advantage for a "home" team that gets three refs for every game. Do the refs make the same money for those games?




Actually, in a two game set with 3 referees, if you get a center and a line, the referee would make slightly more money, work in a better system, and typically do a better job.

From the school perspective, it costs more, which is why some schools don't use 3 referees. I believe it to be in the range of $30-$35 per game. Doesn't sound like much, but when you look at the number of home matches a school plays, Girls JV/V, Boys JV/V, it can be a burden on the athletic department. Add that to the fact that if you look at the number of fans for the soccer matches, and take into account the gate receipts at $5 a head, some schools don't even collect enough money to pay the referee crew.

Some have tried to have 2 for the JV and 3 for Varsity, but often times the referees don't want to travel for only 1 match.

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Bear: Thanks for the answer. We can't really afford 3 refs, but seems to me if more of that happened it might make it easier to create a bigger ref pool. Maybe there aren't enough people to fill it?


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In our area, it's not always a financial thing when only two officials show. We have very conscientious assignors who try to get three for every match, including JV-only, but at some points there just are not enough to go around. We had a rescheduled match on Tuesday that ultimately had to be postponed because there were no officials to send, and they had already had to short a couple of schools to two officials. Not much that can be done about that...the pool is just not large enough sometimes to meet demands.


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Makes sense. I think we have a large pool of refs in Greenville. Haven't seen a game here yet postponed due to LOR (Lack of Refs) but it probably has happened.

Most missing refs at our place are because they can't find it in the rural hills of SC.


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How many refs in a football game? How much do they get paid?

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Relevance?

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I just wanted to compliment the team of officials we had at the Berkeley vs. Summerville match Wed. night. Although some of our fans took issue at times, I thought they took a good approach to the game. They allowed enough physical play to let the players, not the officials, decide the match; players were called aside and fouls were explained and expectations clarified before any cards were shown, and when players had continued infractions after being verbally warned, then the yellows came out. Calls for throw-ins and offsides were consistent and accurate for our game, and the officials maintained a positive attitude and good communication with me and my players throughout the match.

Credit where credit is due...in this case the losing coach is still a satisfied customer.


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$$$$ is the relevance I am curious how much it cost for a normal game.

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Quote:

What's the deal with hiring three refs or two for a game? Financial only? It creates a distinct advantage for a "home" team that gets three refs for every game. Do the refs make the same money for those games?




Why does the home team have an advantage with 3 refs?

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Coach Chass.....

Your comments are a perfect example why there should be a rating system for soccer referees. I would rather have an independent evaluation of the referrees. I believe the coaches would be the best to comment on a referrees abilities. For the most part I believe the coaches would keep their ratings professional and honest for the betterment of the game.

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"can never be offside on a throw-in" is not correct. The player receiving the ball is not off-side but if a teammate is in an offside position and that player subsequently receives the ball while still in an offside position, then it is off-side.

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dhunter,
You give Achmed headache!
Do you work for IRS?


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dhunter...I believe if your 2nd player "subsequently" receives the ball then the play is not on a throw-in it is on a pass after the throw-in.

April 16th is just around the corner!!!!

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What would you call this?????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6UiVt1YzDk

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BCSoccerDad its a questionable call if you watch closely in the back a kid from BC runs in as if he was running down the line and the ball was passed in the same area on the line.

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it just 50/50 chance.. call.. or not.... bad luck..for bc.. hmm

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I would call it a person with a video camera that doesn't capture the entire play, and then asks if the ref made the right call.

Can't tell when the ball was played, and can't tell the position of all the players on the field. In looking at the way the forward made the run, it "appears" the ball was played when he was a yard or two away from the penalty area, and right when the clip ends, there's a BC player that enters the camera frame, in the penalty area, opposite the field from the AR. From what I see in the video, good call.

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I agree with Bear. While it's impossible to be certain, it appears that the BC player on the left was holding the scorer onside.

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HS officiating is most definitely getting worse. Nice clip on the ole YouTube. That's cool.

He looks offsides to me. The player in the back looks to be coming in from behind and obviously the player in white is a full yard behind the backs. He's off. No doubt.


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I agree with HappyDaddy, good play. No Offsides. The last BC player on the far left appears to be holding him onsides. Well done Colden King! Congrats on a excellent play and finish!

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Thanks for the video, that's impressive stuff. That is textbook offsides! No ifs, ands, or buts about that one.


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Do any of you people not notice that he's inside the 18 when he is played the ball and even that kid running in at the last second never passes the 18 yard box? I mean it's 9:20 and I'm hungover but, am I the only one who's not a complete idiot? Bear, just be honest...it's one bad call in a string of bad calls this year.

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Agree you can't tell from that angle. It looks as if the the back on the fare side of the field may have kept him onsides. Would certainly not crucify a ref for not calling that one. Were they playing with two refs or one center and two linesmen?

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The hung over part, I believe.

When the ball comes into view, the receiving player has his feet just outside the 18. When the defending player on the far edge of the screen comes into view, his feet are just INSIDE the 18.

Now, where was he at the moment the ball was touched? Anybody's guess. Not on camera. If he was even with the line where he came into view, he had the receiver barely onsides. If he stepped back when the ball was played, offsides. From this camera view, the world will never know.


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While we are debating this, I must weigh in. The Chapin player seems to check back when he realizes he is in an offsides position and then drifts back into the offsides position when the ball 'seems' to be played (you cannot tell due to camera angle). The BC player enters pretty late and it looks like he's coming from up the field, not to the side. Also, you can see the BC players raising their hands asking for the offsides. I wish we could see when the ball was actually played, but based on this I think that the player is offside.


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I agree, it does look like that last defender's first on-camera step may be backwards from upfield...still no way to tell for sure...I also noticed, though, that he is the only one who doesn't seem to be protesting the lack of a call, and the attacker seems to be looking in his direction when he checks back. Still room to call this one either way.


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Quote:

While we are debating this, I must weigh in. The Chapin player seems to check back when he realizes he is in an offsides position and then drifts back into the offsides position when the ball 'seems' to be played (you cannot tell due to camera angle). The BC player enters pretty late and it looks like he's coming from up the field, not to the side. Also, you can see the BC players raising their hands asking for the offsides. I wish we could see when the ball was actually played, but based on this I think that the player is offside.




If we are going to use video to critique these games, I believe we may need more camera angles, better machines, and qualified operators...

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I agree about the qualified operator. He needs to be fired (at least cut his salary in half). It appears as if he is just locked in on the 18 yard box. Oh wait, he is just locked in on the 18. How worthless is that. And the guy has three legs. However he is holding the camera pretty darn steady. It is as if the video was for some type of keeper training.
Fired, heck, I think we should put him out of his misery.


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LOL .. and I thought I would get a response from my comment, glad to see some humor left

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Quote:

glad to see some humor left



???? Did I ever lose it?
If I ever do, you can sic Achmed on me!!!!


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Who's offsides, the camera man, the ball, the player in the background, the keeper??? oh, the player that checked himself prior to taking off, man so many variables for a simple rule!

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Can someone actually post a decent video of this play?
I dont see how some of you idiots think that that camera angle/not even being able to see the entire play can confirm that play as offside.

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....and here we have a three page debate with video but expect a ref to make the right call in a second....with no youtube video to watch time and again. I know that's what he gets paid to do and all that jazz but if it's that close of a call they will miss some. I know it hurts worse when the call is not your way and when it changes the tone of the game but I can't say I've seen too many perfectly called contest - In my opinion.

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Here is your youtube video you requested:

Referee Highlights

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Quote:

Bear, just be honest...it's one bad call in a string of bad calls this year.




I'm all for calling a bad call a bad call, but, in my opinion this video doesn't provide enough information for other un-biased viewers to make a determination.

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Now for something completely different

Last night during a game between “A” and “B”, one of the “A” players tried to purposely run into (with malice) one of the “B” players. Luckily the “B” player was turned in just the right direction so that most of the force of the blow was transferred into just having the “B” player spin a 360. However once he came out of the 360, the ball was right in front of him and he cleared it. Unfortunately for the (same) “A” player, the cleared ball caught him right where boys don’t like to get caught.
The “A” player was carded for his part, but the “B” player was also carded (for what the ref said was retaliation). However at the time when “B” player tried to clear the ball, the whistle had not blown, so the ball was still in play.
So my question is: if the ball is in play, can you ever be penalize for kicking the ball into another player?


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No. Sounds like another miserable call.

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If a kid is fouled and gets up and kicks the ball at the other player, i would see that as retalliation, especially if the individual is rushing to get up and going at the person with the ball. Ref did the right thing by putting both players on the bench to cool off. In reality, a yellow card is not that big deal, and again, in a heated situation a good way to get both parties off the field to think about it. If it were to continue when they re-enter, you give them another yellow or red.

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After what I have seen this year....anything is possible with SC High School referees. Consistency from one game to the next is something we can only dream of.

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Just out of curiosity, are bad throw ins being called at all this year?? or are we letting that slide like the "travel" in basketball?? And as for the situation with player A and B, maybe the best was to get them off the game to cool off a little bit, even if it wasnt his intentions to kick the ball where it hurts


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Ouch!

As me coach use to say
"Here son, you dropped these"


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I could be mistaken, but striking an opponent by definition includes with the ball. It must be intentional, and it doesn't matter if it's propeled by hand or foot, or in play or out of play, the restart and referee action may change with in and out of play though. For a referee to call that, he must have determined intent. That, however is a lot to expect of a referee, and I don't know that I've ever seen the call, nor the situation to warrant the call.

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Question:
Are "handballs" ("handling the ball") a thing of the past?
I've see what appears to be a trend this year that refs are just not calling it any more.
I understand avoiding calling it in the box, but I’ve seen some real obvious ones elsewhere, right in front of the refs, and not get called.
Opinions?


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I heard a referee say in the pregame huddle with the captains/coaches "I'm not calling handballs unless the player catches the ball".

Dead serious. I bet Roger Hazel has something to do with this. I can see him telling the referees to speed up the play a bit by allowing bad throw-ins and being liberal with handballs. I can see the merit of this in some soccer-less parts of the state which is his real concern. I say this because the more whistle that comes the more likely the crowd, players, and coaches are to get irritated. This can potentially lead to some unfortunate incidents which have, unfortunately, marred the sport (in the SCHSL's eyes) for quite some time.

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Roger Hazel!!!!!!


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Just out of curiosity, are bad throw ins being called at all this year??

Officials just don't call bad throw-ins anymore. They have helicopter throws, one-handed throws, etc. It's awful.


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Quote:

Question:
Are "handballs" ("handling the ball") a thing of the past?
I've see what appears to be a trend this year that refs are just not calling it any more.
I understand avoiding calling it in the box, but I’ve seen some real obvious ones elsewhere, right in front of the refs, and not get called.
Opinions?


NO they are not...I have seen various hand ball's called this season. If a true hand ball is seen it should be called PERIOD - Ask yourself a couple of questions, did the apparent handball give the offender an advantage, was it hand to ball, or ball to hand?

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Handballs? Unless we're talking about when a player taunts another player/official/croud, no they're not being called.


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Unfortunately, most officials refuse to protect the Keepers by calling infringement....the call almost always goes to the offensive player.

I saw a 2nd round 4A game this week where the home team played 79 minutes with 10 players on the field. The keeper and an offensive player collided while both were going for the ball in the box. Neither was able to contact the ball, but the ref gave the keeper a "straight red" and awarded a penalty kick. The ball should have simply been allowed to roll out of bounds and followed with a goal kick. (Even if you cut the official some lack for giving the benefit to the offense, there was nothing "malicious" at all on the play and it should have been without any flag)...Of course this is the same ref that reversed his linesman's call on out of bounds ball that the linesman clearly had the best look at.

...just to add, some of the best officiated games I've seen this year have been officiated by the 2 man teams. When you get 3 guys who haven't worked together as a team and the "attitude" ends up in the middle, there couldn't be worst possible outcome.

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RE protecting the keeper....

I realize my opinion is biased, but tonight there was an incident where I thought my keeper was fouled- pushed in the back while trying to play a high ball, pushed enough that she had to take a couple of steps to recover her balance. After the shove the ball bounced a time or two and then found its way into the goal. After I complained (probably a little louder than I should have) the center ref walked over and calmly told me that it wasn't his call to make. "The AR has to call that. I have to wait for him to raise his flag."(Actual quote) I asked why he had to wait on the AR to call a foul if he saw it too. He then said that my "goalie missed the ball before she was fouled and the ball would have gone in anyway so the foul didn't matter."(Paraphrase of what was said)

HUH? Totally putting aside for a moment my argument that she missed the ball because she was fouled, his argument was that the foul before a goal didn't matter because the ball would have gone in anyway. I have to remember that one.


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Sorry guys, another youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyFoH2XNI04

It had no affect on the outcome, but could have.
In OT, the keeper was told he touched the ball and a corner kick occured because of it.


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It may have been touched by defender, but not by keeper!!!!

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Anybody watch the Dorman v. Northwestern Match, thoughts on the officiating done in that match... I really wanted to Enzo from NW and Acosta from Dorman, but got distracted by the whistles and lack there of.

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 144
Goal Kick
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Goal Kick
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 144
No way that was a corner. What did the AR on the field indicate? You can't see him in the corner of the field.

By the way, the field looks good.

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 409
Goal
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Goal
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 409
The line judge was the one that made the call (against the keeper)


“It’s the most wonderful time of the year”
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23
C
bench
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bench
C
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23
I had the "privelage" of watching Correa officiate another horrible game this weekend. It was saturday afternoon at the Club State Championships, but on the bright side as several parents added, "atleast he's here and not at the high school state championships"

I saw the 3A game on Saturday and thought it was very well officiated. He kept it tight to begin just to make sure he had control of the game, but loosened up as the game went on without being inconsistent. As for the PK, the kid kinda made the decision for him. The was very little chance a goal was going to be scored from a pop up at the edge of the 18, but the player went into the kids back so hard that it really left him little choice.

And I have never thought of a better example of the quote "like father like son" than with the newest Beiber (sp?) Laying on his whistle for 5 plus seconds and yelling at the top of his lungs to scold a CESA coach who very calmly asked about a call. And after a player flicked the ball over his head and was tripped while tryin to make the turn to chase the ball, he looked and the 12 year old kid and said "hey man, if your gonna try tricky 'stuff' like that of course your going to fall". Then a parent questions his call and he just stares at them for 10 seconds while playing is continuing behind his back. He should spend more time reffing and less time tryin to look like a BA.

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