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Running Scores Up ... Just saw where Wade Hampton girls ran the score up on Greer 17-0??? [list]
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I'm a Greer parent. Goalie was injured during the game and since we had no subs for that game it just added to a long night. It was just another heartbreaking game. Trying our best to keep the program going.
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Wow. Thats uh...no good at all. How do you shake hands with a coach after that?
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Yea that is pretty bad.....
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It's not like all of WHHS's team was trying to score. According to the paper, one girl had 4 goals,two girls had 3 goals, another girl had 2, and five had 1 goal each. Greer is trying to keep a team together. I hope the goalie is OK. How do you keep motivated after that?
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It has to be difficult to lose by 17 goals, and I applaud Greer for finishing the game.
I think we need to remember these are children on the field and ask ourselves what do we accomplish in running a score up? Do we teach respect and compassion for a struggling program? Do we show support for all girls playing sports because we know it builds self esteem and healthy bodies? We as parents and coaches need to teach our girls respect to those who have the courage to step out on the field especially to those players who will play even when they know they are over matched.
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The WHHS coach should have handled this situation better especially when Greer had a injured keeper. Hope Greer can find some goods things from this and keep moving forward.
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So which is more humiliating to a team, to lose 15 - 0, or lose 8 - 0 while the winning team plays keep away for half a game. I don't know that there is any good answer for this. When you put all your subs in the game and you keep scoring, what do you do then? Tell your subs who, assuming they're weaker players, that they can't score or even try to score? If the players are laughing and ridiculing the losing team, that could be humiliating, but what about otherwise. A JV game I saw Monday night was like that, one team kept scoring, but not to humiliate or demean the opponent, but because it was easy to do and the defenders couldn't stop anything, sometimes didn't even look like they were trying. Keeper gets hands on the ball but drops it in the goal, or defender kicks it into the goal, what do you do then?
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Why don't these teams sneak players off the field (play with 8-9) until the game reaches an equilibrium. Thought: still challenging the winning teams players (quicker play with more defenders) and giving the other team a chance to have some success on the field.
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what do you do then?
Opponent needs to get better! Simple. 
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What does running up the score prove? If it is a region match, you have to take into account goal differential. But, again, what are you trying to prove by running up the score? If you want to cut down the scoring, put subs in, move people around to different positions, put restrictions on how to score, put restrictions on how many passes your team has to make on each 1/2 of the field before going to goal.
Now...who is to say that Greer's opponent didn't try to do this?
Stewie- "Where did you graduate again, university of duhhhh?"
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The answer, as Mr. Heise recommended for the boys years ago, is soccer-specific classification with promotion/relegation. This would mean fewer lopsided games, at least within classification. But as we all know, this most likely will never happen in the SCHSL.
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Is goal differential really the tie breaker for the tournament? That is horrible.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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...If it is a region match, you have to take into account goal differential...
What difference does goal differential make in region matches? Do any regions use soccer-specific tie breakers such as goal differential? My experience has been that they use the same tie-breakers for all sports.
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And what is that tie breaker?
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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Is goal differential really the tie breaker for the tournament? That is horrible.
I'm not sure what you mean by "for the tournament". But I think it would be great to use goal differential, with a limit of 3 per game, to break ties in region standings. It sure beats a coin toss which is what happen to a team I was associated with 3 years ago. It's my understanding that each region decides its own standings' tie breakers and that they are the same for all sports.
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tie breaker for seeding for the tournamnet (i.e. 2 teams tie at 7 - 3 in the region and went 1-1 against each other, what is the next tiebreaker?)
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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So you were referring to a tie in the region standings? And by tournament, you are referring to the SCHSL playoffs? So the tie breaker determines who makes the playoffs and where they fit in the brackets. As I said, I believe these tie breakers can be different for each region and are the same in that region for all sports. They typically include things like head-to-head competition, non-region record, and even coin-tosses and play-in games. It just depends on what region you are in.
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Goals allowed in conference play is what Region 1 did. I don't care too much for goals for. Encourages the running up.
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I don't think any team tries to "run up" the score- unless they absolutely have it out for a team - which in most cases is simply a competitive rivalry where the scores never get close to a 17 goal lead. The problem occurs when coaches sub in the bench late and expect the players not to play to their fullest. Early on, there are things a coach can do- put restrictions on scoring (only off a cross, use your weakest foot etc.). If not done early, a game can get away form you and 3 goals can be scored while you are waiting to sub. It is up to the coach to put these restrictions on to avoid humiliation for the other team, while also challenging his or her players. It is also important to teach players about good sportsmanship and proper etiquette. The players themselves,should have enough compassion for the other team not to become selfish and lose sight of what is happening. How good can it really feel to score the 17th goal on a team that has nothing on the board? I only hope coaches don't encourage running the score up.
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Does anyone know how much time was left when the Greer goalie got injured and what the score was? This is tragic if the game was already out of hand!
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Absolutely crazy that there isn't a uniform tie-breaker for the state and that each region chooses it's own.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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Absolutely crazy that there isn't a uniform tie-breaker for the state and that each region chooses it's own.
...and a uniform method for selecting all region players.
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I agree that it should be uniform! How are they selected today?
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Some vote, some get allotted amounts based on region finish
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Keep up the spirits. Good things come to those who stick with it.
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WHS' coaches are experienced enough to know each opponents' strength prior to kickoff. It is common knowledge that teams like Greer, Union, and some others have no or very few club players and are not (yet) competitive with schools loaded with club players. Going into such games, I would therefore expect the coaches to have all subs in the starting line up for 80 minutes and instruct all their players to use the weaker foot only. All of a sudden, you will see their own limitations.
Additional restrictions are not too difficult to think of (scoring off a header only, scoring from outside the 18yd box, playing numbers down, ...). Perhaps WHS was not confident enough that they could beat Greer under such circumstances?
Kudos to Greer for trying to keep a game going and not packing all 11 players in their 18yd box. YOU have our respect.
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I'm interested to hear what, or if, the WHS coaches did to try to keep the score down. It is possible to keep scoring even when you do take precautions against it, but it's infinitely easier when you don't. I recall one Wando game where the coach had us step girls off until we had 8 on the field, required x amount of passes before you could shoot, could only score on headers, weak foot, from outside the 18, off a cross, etc. And this was after playing the defenders up top and with most of the subs for most of the game.
I have no idea what the end score of that game was, but I think I remember it being over 11-0 Wando even with our "scoring" rules and lower numbers. I can't say whether or not doing such things is insulting to the other team or not because, thankfully, I was never in the position to find out, but unless the game automatically ends after a certain number of goals, something should be done to prevent scores of 15-20 or worse which will statistically happen otherwise.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; [it] is also what it takes to sit down and listen.
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There is an initial posting on under "Wade Hampton Soccer" from a WHHS parent who apologized for what was not their decision. It is a shame that their goalie got hurt in the process. Hope she is OK? Does anyone know how she is doing?
"To all the Greer Girls Soccer players and coaches. I was a parent at the game last night and please accept my apology for our team putting 17 goals on you. This is no way a reflection of how some of the parents feel and please accept our apology. Sportmanship is the number one priority. We did not show any sportmanship last night. I do applaud your girls for completing the game and please tell the girls to keep their heads up. It takes time to build a program and the teams who happen to be superior on that night need to show some some respect to the other programs."
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Our goalie took a BIG hit to the head. She was seeing stars for quite awhile after that. She is fine now. Thanks for asking about her. Although the score doesn't reflect it I thought the Greer girls did a great job trying to keep up. They never gave up. Greer didn't have any subs that game. They were exhausted but kept at it. I don't remember exactly when the goalie got hurt because it seemed like that game went on forever but it was during the second half. I was really nervous after she got hurt and we played a player down after that. I was ready for the refs to blow the final whistle. We play in a region with great teams.
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17-0 is an ugly score, and I would not have expected such a score from Wade Hampton. I know many of the parents, and I am sure there were quite a few lectures at home after the game. 17-0 could/should have been avoided, but so could/should the other double-digit margins already recorded around the state this year.
Given that tie breakers may vary from one region to the next, can anyone site the tie breakers for Region II-AAA if required to determine the 4th place team included in the playoffs.
WHS vs. Greer is a regional game. Blue Ridge is in the same region. If Blue Ridge defeats WHS in their second meeting on the 14th, the BR and WHS teams (barring "on any given day" upsets) will probably finish regional play at 5-7 and tied for 4th place. Which team would go to the playoffs? BR is building up shutouts (strange record thus far, all games win or lose have been shutouts), WHS just put +17 in the goal differential column.
In the Region II-AAA rules is there any incentive for WHS to allow a score to reach 17-0?
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No incentive. Unless WH and Greer tied, which is not likely, there is no incentive. The tiebreaker is the head-to-head record, and then goals given up in region competition as I understand it.
No explanable reason for that score except the obvious one.
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After reading some of your post on other scsoccer topics you state you are the Blue Ridge coach. Why make the statements you do as a coach in the same region as the WH coach? I found that you to have "run up the score" 13-0 against nonregion Berea and you leave out of your post that you are the coach of Blue Ridge. Also, in a Greenville newspaper article Sumwalt has had "she's had seven hat tricks this year." Of the teams "33 goals recorded" one player has scored what 65+/- percent of the entire teams goals! BR record is 6-3 and ranked 13 in state! http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dl...STATESPORTS0213Before blasting a fellow region team/coach in your post you might have atleast mentioned your title with Blue Ridge. You did not leave it out in your other post under different topics! Also, interesting fact Blue Ridge(#13) is ranked higher than Wade Hampton(#15 was NR)and Wade Hampton beat BR 4-0 as a region game! Just thought inquiring minds would want to know!!
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So...someone has to state their name and affiliation every time they post? Kinda...crazy don't you think? And what does a quality forward have to do with Wade Hampton going ape on another team 17-0? I think we're trying to cause a distraction here to cover up the real issue of why the score was so lopsided.
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What can a coach/team do? I understand that pulling off starters and letting bench players have P.T. relieves offensive pressure but what else could have been done? Also the coach limited them to a number of passes before a shot could be taken. There is only so much that can be done before another score is made.
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What can a coach/team do? I understand that pulling off starters and letting bench players have P.T. relieves offensive pressure but what else could have been done? Also the coach limited them to a number of passes before a shot could be taken. There is only so much that can be done before another score is made.
If there is nothing else a coach can do then why are other lopsided match ups showing classier results?
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Here is an idea that no one has suggested.
If you are in a game that won't be competitive at all, start the game with restrictions. Touch restriction, everytime you play the ball you must overlap, etc. That would make it more challenging from the beginning. That way you may not have to play keep away for 30 minutes because it will take you 80 minutes to score 8 or 9 goals using these restrictions.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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I agree. Before one game, I heard a coach talking to his team and told them that they would have touch restrictions and shot restrictions. He also said once they were up 4-0 that scoring could only occur by headers and crossing. The final score was 8 - 0. Bench players were able to play 50% of the game and their was good sportsmanship by both teams.
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No they do not have to state a name, but it sheds much clearer light on the topic.
Go back and read what others posted and you will have the reason the example was given. People were asking what happened. 9 different players scored and rules were given by the coach.
No distraction other than you defending a Blue Ridge 13-0 score against Berea a non region game that I doubt Berea scheduled. Who wanted that big win in their column?
Running up a score is running up a score. Unless in your book 13-0 is not running up a score.
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If you look at other scores against Greer such as the Riverside and Eastside games, two very strong teams neither went that high in the scoring. I think EHS was a little high with 12 and you can say that RHS was high as well with 8 but if two skilled teams such as these can keep it down why can't a team like WHHS? It seems as though they were trying to prove something. I know that RHS and EHS both put restrictions on shots and then cut them off completely eventually. Also, cutting the game early has been done as well. For the second half you just never start the scoreboard clock so fans can't tell and go on with a shortened half. There is no good way to deal with that situation but a 17-0 game is definitely not the answer!
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I wonder if Riverside were to take the same approach tonight and let all their players score at will, what do you think the score would be?
I would think 22-0. Would WHHS think this would be appropriate. Fact is, this would be possible.
Riverside has more class, would not happen.
Soccer is a game you just have to love!!!!
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I wonder if Riverside were to take the same approach tonight and let all their players score at will, what do you think the score would be?
I would think 22-0. Would WHHS think this would be appropriate. Fact is, this would be possible.
Riverside has more class, would not happen.
Agreed
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Just a thought. . .this is an often-argued topic.
Take a few minutes. Go to the scoreboard, and pick some of the top programs. Glance through the past several years. There are some really fine programs with some really high scores.
I am not justifying the high scores. I witnessed one school for a few years schedule weak teams three and four times EACH season to allow the "best" player to tally 8, 9, 10 goals in each of those matches. . .
I also have posted that I think high school soccer should be leagues based on quality of the programs, not classifications—with relegation, moving up, etc.
But any argument against running up the scores should have context. Look at the facts of scores. . .
8-0, 10-0, 12-0. . .not uncommon by the best programs in the state with top-notch coaches and players.
"Living well's the best revenge." r.e.m.
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Let's get something straight - I am not blasting the WH Coach nor did I. It was obvious that they kept scoring and it is definitely possible that it could not be helped.
I have great respect for him. My daughter played for him, and he taught her a great deal about killer instinct and playing for blood, as well as soccer, and being on a team. He is a friend. His family would be considered friends by my family. Actually, my daughter is friends with almost all of the WH girls.
Their coach is one of the fiercest competitors I have ever met or known, and he would take that as a complete compliment and nothing else. He plays to win, and has never held a score down. He downs add "rules" like 10 passes, etc. but historically scores very high against weaker teams. I respect that.
Don't put words in my mouth. And don't tell me what I think.
Also, you may want to get your facts straight. We have never played Berea as far as I know. We has a scrimmage earlier with 4 own goals and several balls that were just passed to the front area and went into the goal. That team has a new goalie, new forwards, and has changed the way it plays. It wasn't Berea.
Also, loved your "recap" of the WH - Greer game. "Pulled everyone out with 5 minutes gone and the score 5-0". In case you missed it, the 3 leading scorers for WH had both 3-4 goals and 3-4 assists each. Maybe they did it from their own 18, but probably not.
There are two rules of thought on scoring in lopsided games. One is to kill the opponent and score every chance you get. The other extreme is to "do onto others as you would have them do unto you." Maybe you never got beat 20-0 as Blue Ridge did several years ago three games in a row. Not fun. I respect any coach who plays full out, any coach who plays with additional "hold-back" rules like 10 passes, headers only, etc. And I CHOOSE to be a coach who teaches my players not to run up the score. Saw Andy Robinson at Eastside and Terry Archenhold at Riverside sit on small leads against our team last year and it was one of the classiest things I have ever experienced.
We have won three 7-0 games this year when we did not shoot after we reached that score. I don't let my players score more than 3 goals. It's a BR rule. Doesn't have to be anybody elses' rule. It's mine. I believe it is respectful.
Don't forget that the first post on that 17-0 score was from a parent of a Wade Hampton player, and anyone who knows their kids knows exactly who that parent is. BOTH the coach and the parent are very classy. That parent was embarassed.
Keep your cool. Soccer is a game for the kids; don't ruin it with hatred.
Last edited by Retired, Old, and Happy; 04/03/08 11:15 PM.
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I wonder if Riverside were to take the same approach tonight and let all their players score at will, what do you think the score would be?
I would think 22-0. Would WHHS think this would be appropriate. Fact is, this would be possible.
Riverside has more class, would not happen.
Riverside would not do that to anyone, but I can tell you that I heard a student say today that they hoped Riverside won 30-0.
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The best way for a struggling program to keep the score respectful is very simple, PACK THE BACK, check out this years scores, and its a successful recipe for several programs.
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Agreed. Good soccer thinking.
That idea about different levels within the high school league is another great one but in reality will never happen.
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I agree. Before one game, I heard a coach talking to his team and told them that they would have touch restrictions and shot restrictions. He also said once they were up 4-0 that scoring could only occur by headers and crossing. The final score was 8 - 0. Bench players were able to play 50% of the game and their was good sportsmanship by both teams.
I agree with this strategy. No team should feel like they need to run the score into the double digits. What are they trying to prove? It humiliates the bad teams and in a sense makes the "good team" look bad. It is unsportsmanlike conduct to go into double digits. Make restrictions with goals or stringing a certain amount of passes together. It will ultimately make the good team better. I think we are all just beating a dead horse..
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Most players dislike coaches putting restrictions on the game itself. Keep in mind a HS player that plays club soccer at the highest level, premier league and or ODP can go 2-3 years without scoring a goal from the mid field or forward position(just check the stats). That same player can score a hat trick in the first half of a HS game. Is it any wonder why scores can get out of control. An average club player can be a superstar on a HS team.
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Most players dislike coaches putting restrictions on the game itself. Keep in mind a HS player that plays club soccer at the highest level, premier league and or ODP can go 2-3 years without scoring a goal from the mid field or forward position(just check the stats). That same player can score a hat trick in the first half of a HS game. Is it any wonder why scores can get out of control. An average club player can be a superstar on a HS team.
Maybe against a team like Greer, but not in our region, region 2, or against the state's best.
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As a player, I know the girls on our team actually never minded the restrictions, especially because we felt just as bad for the opponents when we were dominating so much. It's much more challenging to try to string together 6,7,8,9,10 passes, cross and switch the field than to take advantage of easy 1v1 situations, even if it's against a weaker opponent. And it got us used to more consecutive passes or working on center crosses or combinations in a game situation that we could use against other teams where we really needed it.
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adidaskitten - tells a lot about you as a person and as a player. Classy.
Retired, Old, Happy, and off into the sunset
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Trust me, I never minded those restrictions either, from the other sideline!  Wish everyone thought that way...I think we'd see a higher level of play all over.
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Adidaskitten:
Most girls play HS soccer so they don't have to string together 6,7,8, passes. HS soccer = fun, club soccer = work. HS soccer = lots of scoring opportunities, club soccer = very limited scoring opportunities. Like I said, a HS player can score more goals in one half of a game than they can in 2 or 3 club seasons.
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SOCCER is not about scoring goals...Brazil five time world champions RARELY ever scored more than a single goal a game...the shut-outs are what really count. I believe once they did score seven goals, but never more. WORK == FUN, when you really put an effort out there. Plenty of club teams score more goals. Things that come easy, quickly fade away. If you WORK for it, you have more rewards.
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dbsandis:
If that's the case, what does that say about the quality of HS soccer? anybody? anybody?
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Quote:
dbsandis:
If that's the case, what does that say about the quality of HS soccer? anybody? anybody?
Maybe that you can't make blanket statements about the "quality of HS soccer"...it can vary greatly from school to school, region to region, coach to coach, etc.--dozens of variables can affect the "quality" of an individual program. and the top team in almost any given region can usually find some team(s) to rack up goals on if they want to.
Also, define "quality." Are you referring to the ability to put scores and wins on the board, the opportunity to collect top players and put them on the same field, the ability to train and develop athletes into better players than they were before, the ability to provide entertaining and fulfilling competition for the athletes, or some combination of the above? Curious how "quality" is defined..
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We actually did have a lot of fun trying to string together a lot of passes or trying crazy combinations to try to see if they had any chance on Earth in working ever. But then I played for Wando and our entire team was comprised of the MPSC Ice, Carolina Girls Fusion, MPSC Impulse, and a former Fury player, so I can't say anything for the schools who weren't as lucky to have a good feeder program in the area.
But then again, when you play soccer, you [should] play for the love of the game. It should be just as fun, or more so, to knock around passes and combinations and challenge yourself to find new things to do and new ways to do it as to take advantage of too-easy 1v1 moments and just knock another in the net. To me, that's no fun at all if it's no challenge. I could go do that on my own with a friend; games are for teamwork, not for gratifying your own sense of self worth by beating a less skilled opponent and putting another digit on an already elevated score. Yes, it's fun to score and as a wing or defender, I got more assists than goals. But it was a heck of a lot more satisfying to get that one in against a James Island or a West Ashley or a Dutch Fork or Mauldin than it was to make a growing team feel even worse about where they are right now. They've already lost, they've already seen what they need to work on and gotten the experience, so lodging in dozens of goals doesn't make the lesson any more effective. In fact, giving them more opportunities to defend against wall passes or crosses or corners or switches of the field is going to end up a lot more of an effective "practice" from there on out.
Last edited by adidaskitten86; 04/05/08 07:53 PM.
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AK,
Just wanted to say that players like you are part of the reason I've always held the Wando program in respect. The attitude that rising to a challenge (whether self-imposed or brought by the other team) is more rewarding than taking an easy route to domination is one I want my players to understand and share.
I remember the first time we scored on Wando, in the second meeting of the '05 season. We ended up losing 4-1, but we scored first and held it for a while; after losing the first matchup of the season 9-0, that one goal was worth more than a dozen against a weaker team. Wando may have won the match, but I think my girls walked out of there feeling like they had accomplished more.
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Coach Chass:
My post was based on the original thread question, running scores up. My question about the quality of HS soccer had a direct correlation to the high number of goals being scored (19-0 17-0 13-0 etc.) against certain teams. No one doubts the abilities of a Wando,Irmo,or Riverside, with their rosters full of club players.
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So, how would you phrase your conclusion about the quality of HS soccer? I just think the answer might be a little complex to sum up with a single rhetorical question. I understand that you're saying the overall level of play is higher and more consistent from team to team in club soccer, and I agree, but is there more to "quality" than that? Not arguing, just wanting to fully understand your take.
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Oh, and just to clarify, I coach a club team in the fall and a HS team in the spring, so I'm not "taking sides" between high school and club. I was just talking to one of my club players this afternoon, and she mentioned how different things are between club and high school, so I was interested when the question came up.
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Well, Wando's had our own issues every once in a while and obviously everyone has their breaking point at one time or another, but in general, I was always proud to have played for them and still proud to be able to say I was a Lady Warrior.
Thankfully though, one of the things that my Dad specifically told me over and over growing up, especially when I was a U10 player playing U12 and not matching up quite as well to the older and more experienced players, is that it's not about winning the game or losing the game, but about how you feel when you come off the field. Did you leave it all on the field? Play 150% the entire time and not slack off? Did you learn something? Did you get better at something by learning it?
If I could answer those questions, even if it was a miserable loss and I played hard but wasn't good enough and all I learned was "don't be an idiot, mark your back post," then I could be happy. Some of my proudest moments came from covering the best players on another team, even in a loss, because I knew I kept them from scoring and it was their other teammates who got it done instead.
I've been very lucky to have excellent coaches and a great dad to give me advice, so I can only hope to pass on what I've learned whenever I have the time to start coaching again. I got my "D" License and was able to coach several of the girls on MPSC's U11 Elite team for a year in U9/U10, but unfortunately, medical school has kind of monopolized my time minus the hour and a half I take out to play in Lowcountry Soccer's 6v6 league.
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Coach Chass:
Thats my main point, things are very different between HS and club soccer and the different debates will go round and round. After talking to several club players over the last few weeks the one constant was, they really enjoyed playing HS soccer and each player had her own reasons.
Last edited by sweet feet; 04/05/08 09:22 PM.
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Sweet,
I agree...and a lot of it depends on the individual and the situation. If you're one of those few (or only) club players on a struggling high school team, you might look forward to club season, like the player I was talking to today. Or, you might just enjoy the freedom from pressure for a while and feel like a big fish in a small pond. If you're on a high-powered high school team playing a schedule of weaker opponents, you might enjoy the freedom to cut loose and feel dominant in some games, or you might prefer getting back to an environment where you feel challenged every time you step on the field. Depends on what the individual is looking for, but I think the important thing is to find a way to enjoy what you're doing, no matter what level you or your opponents fit into.
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AK, Sounds like you really have learned some good lessons; I think your dad's a wise man. Those questions sound a lot like the ones I heard from my own dad growing up, and ones I constantly try to pass on to my team. Even in a loss, you can find reasons to hold your head up. Had to laugh..."don't be an idiot, mark your back post" was a running theme from our last trip to Wando...I think I woke up in the middle of the night yelling "Back post!" At any rate, I hope you get to take those lessons back with you into coaching soon. I think there are a lot of young players who would benefit.
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The back post really is a truly scary concept sometimes. It terrified me for a few years before I built up the confidence to come face to face with it ;-).
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Heh...yeah, I finally had to turn it into a "face the back post now or face the coach after the game" kind of concept before they really got the picture... Sometimes it's good to be warm and encouraging, and sometimes it's good to be just a tiny bit scary. 
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Do you have a throbbing vein when you get angry? That was a really effective terror-inducer in one of my old coaches. It'd be half-time and if the vein in his temple was pulsing, we knew we were in for it.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; [it] is also what it takes to sit down and listen.
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My indicator is apparently my hat...if it's undisturbed, all is well. When my hand goes to the bill, it's the first warning sign...when I keep adjusting it, it's a tad worse...and if it gets snatched off, everyone takes a step back. I once went to a practice bare-headed...the team told me I HAD to wear a hat from then on out so they had some warning when to tighten up!
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Funny story from club practice...I coached a U-17 classic team last year, and I had a light pole picked out across the field as the target for "focusing runs" when they got a little distracted at practice... One evening several of the girls got talkative in the huddle while I was explaining an adjustment we had to make...I hadn't said a word and wasn't really conscious of it, but apparently I looked up at the light pole and my hand started going up for the hat...one of my girls saw it, went, "OH, NONONONONONO-awwwww..." and just started running, taking the rest of the team with her. Amber, if you're out there reading this, miss ya!
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dbsandis:
If that's the case, what does that say about the quality of HS soccer? anybody? anybody?
Actually say's nothing about the quality of SC HS soccer. But Coach Chass says it all, with his response.
Last edited by dbsandis; 04/06/08 12:31 AM.
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SF's been drinking too early in the day
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The sickness seems to be spreading. Hanna put up 17 on Laurens.
"Boys, even if it means dying on the pitch, we must win!" Marc-Vivien Foe 1975 - 2003
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Heard from one of the parents at the game that TL Hanna was only playing with 6 field players at the end of the game even though the other coach had asked the TL Hanna coach not to back off and play a lot of restrictions.
Question... If a school is struggling to develop a program, and rezoning, relegation, etc. really aren't possibilities, is there any rule that says the team has to play varsity? Can a school field just one team and declare it a junior varsity to provide a little more opportunity for success, while it builds toward one day entering the varsity arena?
Then, any team playing a varsity schedule would need to lace 'em up and come to play. Good sportsmanship should always prevail, and I think coaches are trying. However, I don't think scores like these will be eliminated in the near future.
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It was 7 players (that's as few as the officials will allow) and the coach asked for no mercy. With a new facility and a win or two already on the season, it is hoped that a few humbling experiences will bring out the "want to" and desire to find a fall soccer team.
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Quote:
Heard from one of the parents at the game that TL Hanna was only playing with 6 field players at the end of the game...
Quote:
It was 7 players (that's as few as the officials will allow) ...
6 field players plus 1 goalkeeper = 7 players. The referee will also not allow you to play without a goalkeeper.
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Quote:
Question... If a school is struggling to develop a program, and rezoning, relegation, etc. really aren't possibilities, is there any rule that says the team has to play varsity? Can a school field just one team and declare it a junior varsity to provide a little more opportunity for success, while it builds toward one day entering the varsity arena?
Yes...if the start up program is smart, that's the way to do it.
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Interesting thought... Should the coaches NEED to tell their players when to back off? As Varsity athletes, we are (I lie...we SHOULD BE) mature enough to know when it's time to back off. I'm all for making restrictions (i.e. 3-touch-rule, must score off of a cross/one-touch, etc.) but should a coach need to tell a team that before it'll happen? I'm not saying players should up and decide how they are going to play the game, but when it gets to be 8-0, 9-0, 10-0, there really is no point in continuing to run up a score. It's not hard to take a couple of shots at the keeper or let a defender challenge you instead of just flying past--I've done both. (I've also been whupped-up on 0-9...but we won't talk about that. ) I don't think a coach should have to tell his/her players when to back off, they should be able to determine that for themselves. A coach has every right to do as he/her wishes (in this case, in terms of restrictions and the number of players on the field) but as players, we should also see when it's time to backoff and act upon that. Just an opinion.
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I agree that you shouldn't need to be told when to back-off, that should be understood by all players on the field. I do like the restrictions, however, because it's nice to have some sort of specific unified goal to be working at the time rather than just be knocking the ball around aimlessly. Can we get 9, 10, 11 consecutive passes? Can we get this crazy new combo to work? Can we take it back, switch it, and then do x, y, or z?
Captains, of course, can always set those specific goals, but a coach is another good way to make sure everyone knows and understands the particular point in time.
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Quote:
It was 7 players (that's as few as the officials will allow) and the coach asked for no mercy. With a new facility and a win or two already on the season, it is hoped that a few humbling experiences will bring out the "want to" and desire to find a fall soccer team.
1. Does anyone know if the Greer coach asked for "no mercy" in the Wade Hampton game? My daughter's team had a similar score against Greer last year (again, minimum number of players on field at end), and she said the coach at that time made the same request of her team as the Laurens coach made of TL Hanna last week.
2. Most of the discussion on these scores has been focused on the responsibility of the dominant team to avoid the blowout. I agree that a dominant team, even if asked to show "no mercy", should still strive to provide "experience" for the weaker team in a sporting manner (restrictions, etc.).
However, does a weaker team share in the responsibility of avoiding a blowout? Perhaps more important, do the coaches and those developing schedules for struggling programs (not sure who develops league schedules) have a responsibility to maybe go a little further in scheduling some matches where the weaker teams will not only avoid the blowout but will have a greater opportunity for success?
I have a great deal of respect for those players of teams like Greer and Union County. I would say that they display a greater love for the game than many who would probably hang up their cleats after so many lopsided losses. However, Greer and Union County play in arguably one of the strongest AAA regions in the state, II-AAA. As "developing" programs they are going to be playing against the odds in almost every region game they play. They play every other team in the region twice... except one. As two teams that could really use an opportunity to play on a little more level playing field, why do their schedules not include "Greer vs. Union County"? Perhaps the posted schedules do not include all of their matches, but they include no pre-season scrimmages or non-regional matches.
If these are "programs in development" where are the developmental parts of the schedules? If these are programs concerned with the morale of the players and their love for the game, where are the non-region games against teams of similar strength? Laurens plays in a tough AAAA region, but with a goal of developing the program the schedule includes matches that provide the players with opportunities to play "straight up", not packed in or with restrictions placed on the opposing team. They may not win, but they may be competitive.
My point is this, and I make it with all due respect for the players of Greer, Union County and other "struggling" teams around the state, many of whom are struggling just to find that first goal scored of the season. If the schools and coaches of these "developing" and "struggling" programs do not make the effort to provide real opportunities to develop the competitiveness of the teams, can we keep placing the sole responsibility of avoiding blowouts on the dominant teams of the various regions? Year after year with the same teams?
If an honest assessment of a program's goal is to provide a less than varsity level of support and development for the players, perhaps the players' love for the game will find greater satisfaction through a junior varsity schedule. (No disrespect intended for the many fine junior varsity programs out there.)
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Quote:
Quote:
Heard from one of the parents at the game that TL Hanna was only playing with 6 field players at the end of the game...
Quote:
It was 7 players (that's as few as the officials will allow) ...
6 field players plus 1 goalkeeper = 7 players. The referee will also not allow you to play without a goalkeeper.
We here in the midlands don't read the whole post...so shut up!
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Quote:
Interesting thought...
Should the coaches NEED to tell their players when to back off? As Varsity athletes, we are (I lie...we SHOULD BE) mature enough to know when it's time to back off. I'm all for making restrictions (i.e. 3-touch-rule, must score off of a cross/one-touch, etc.) but should a coach need to tell a team that before it'll happen?
I'm not saying players should up and decide how they are going to play the game, but when it gets to be 8-0, 9-0, 10-0, there really is no point in continuing to run up a score. It's not hard to take a couple of shots at the keeper or let a defender challenge you instead of just flying past--I've done both. (I've also been whupped-up on 0-9...but we won't talk about that. )
I don't think a coach should have to tell his/her players when to back off, they should be able to determine that for themselves. A coach has every right to do as he/her wishes (in this case, in terms of restrictions and the number of players on the field) but as players, we should also see when it's time to backoff and act upon that.
Just an opinion.
If your friend has a hat trick and you have zilch, what HS kid isn't going for it? If you have nevery scored a goal and you have that opportunity...what is stopping you? I just don't think we can assume that HS kids have the desire to pull off themselves. Too many factors in play.
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Quote:
I agree that you shouldn't need to be told when to back-off, that should be understood by all players on the field. I do like the restrictions, however, because it's nice to have some sort of specific unified goal to be working at the time rather than just be knocking the ball around aimlessly. Can we get 9, 10, 11 consecutive passes? Can we get this crazy new combo to work? Can we take it back, switch it, and then do x, y, or z?
When you look at it that way, it's not so much "restrictions" as "challenges"...ways to make a game challenging enough to provide both entertainment and development. Those kinds of "restrictions" aren't there to hold the players back, but rather to give them a way to play their best without taking the easy route. Scoring goal #9 might not be anything to brag about, but pulling off that insane combo without losing the ball is. Whether put in by the captains or designed by the coach, they're a good way to get something meaningful out of an otherwise anticlimactic game.
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Quote:
If your friend has a hat trick and you have zilch, what HS kid isn't going for it? If you have nevery scored a goal and you have that opportunity...what is stopping you? I just don't think we can assume that HS kids have the desire to pull off themselves. Too many factors in play.
I don't know about most HS players, but I can vouch for the one who wrote that post above. She's one of mine, and I watched it happen. We were playing last year against a developing team, and although they had spirit, the goals were coming pretty easily. Now, anyone familiar with my school knows that my players don't get a whole lot of opportunities to score goals; we've been on the bleeding end of the blowout from time to time, but to say my girls were goal-starved might be an understatement. I was rotating players out after they scored and giving some girls a chance who hadn't had any PT yet that season...at halftime, I told my keeper I was going to rotate her out into the field to get some ball touch time; she's actually a pretty talented forward and outside mid, but we need her in goal, so she doesn't get much chance to dribble, much less take a shot, any more.
Before I had a chance to say another word about scoring restrictions, she just looked at me and said, "Coach, I'll go in...but I won't score."
Nobody else on the team gave in to the urge to plant one in for the rest of the game after that either; we had a good sesson of possession practice, counted passes, and ripped one wide now and then rather than pointedly dribbling up to the keeper and turning around.
I don't think anyone left that game mad.
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Restrictions, challenges...semantics, bah! Putting the restrictions = the challenge ;-).
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Putting in restrictions is certainly a way to get into some antics, yes.
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I have to jump in and say that I scored my first goal of my high school career in Wando's 12-0 victory over Stall High School. (Long before Adidas Kitten's time).
I was working my butt off trying to play well even in the final minutes of the game. The coach was in his first season and had very little experience in girl's soccer in the Lowcountry. At the beginning he relied very heavily on the more well-known players and upper classmen regardless and did not seem to re-evaluate the talent on the roster. I felt like every minute I got in the game I had something to prove to the coach because I thought I deserved more playing time then some of the people ahead of me. I wanted to show him and the rest of the team and parents that I had the skills, motivation, etc to be able to play at that level. I wasn't thinking about the other team at all.
Just an anecdote from over a decade ago, but I wanted to put it out there.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 106
goal kick
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goal kick
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 106 |
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I have to jump in and say that I scored my first goal of my high school career in Wando's 12-0 victory over Stall High School. (Long before Adidas Kitten's time).
I was working my butt off trying to play well even in the final minutes of the game. The coach was in his first season and had very little experience in girl's soccer in the Lowcountry. At the beginning he relied very heavily on the more well-known players and upper classmen regardless and did not seem to re-evaluate the talent on the roster. I felt like every minute I got in the game I had something to prove to the coach because I thought I deserved more playing time then some of the people ahead of me. I wanted to show him and the rest of the team and parents that I had the skills, motivation, etc to be able to play at that level. I wasn't thinking about the other team at all.
Just an anecdote from over a decade ago, but I wanted to put it out there.
I think we have all been there. Club especially, I remember wanting to prove to my coach that I deserved more time and that I was better than he thought. You can sometimes get caught in the moment and not realize that you are hurting the other team so much.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768
World Cup
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World Cup
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768 |
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 159
goal kick
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goal kick
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 159 |
Obviously this post has been ongoing for quite a while with 10 pages of posts.
Double digit scores happen in soccer (especially highschool soccer ) all of the time because of the huge disparity in talent and emphasis on the sport.
That said, there are just some scores that are not justifiable.
Probably the most glaring sporting score of the year is the 17-0 score of the Ben Lippen vs Augusta Christian girls soccer match.
That is a worse score than any of the beatings that Calhoun County's basketball team put on their inferior opponents in the last couple of years.
It is VERY easy to play the game of soccer correctly without scoring once the score is over 10-0.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 159
goal kick
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goal kick
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 159 |
Quote:
Quote:
I have to jump in and say that I scored my first goal of my high school career in Wando's 12-0 victory over Stall High School. (Long before Adidas Kitten's time).
I was working my butt off trying to play well even in the final minutes of the game. The coach was in his first season and had very little experience in girl's soccer in the Lowcountry. At the beginning he relied very heavily on the more well-known players and upper classmen regardless and did not seem to re-evaluate the talent on the roster. I felt like every minute I got in the game I had something to prove to the coach because I thought I deserved more playing time then some of the people ahead of me. I wanted to show him and the rest of the team and parents that I had the skills, motivation, etc to be able to play at that level. I wasn't thinking about the other team at all.
Just an anecdote from over a decade ago, but I wanted to put it out there.
I think we have all been there. Club especially, I remember wanting to prove to my coach that I deserved more time and that I was better than he thought. You can sometimes get caught in the moment and not realize that you are hurting the other team so much.
My issue with this logic is that it is not up to the kids to realize that they are hurting the other team. I have no fault with the kids in this instance. The fault is with the coaches. It is their job and their responsibility to contol what happens on the field.
It is simple for a coach to control the way the kids play the game.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 60
throw in
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throw in
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 60 |
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I have no fault with the kids in this instance. The fault is with the coaches. It is their job and their responsibility to contol what happens on the field.
It is simple for a coach to control the way the kids play the game.
I disagree. While, yes, some blame can be with the coaches, the players are just as guilty. The coach doesn't dribble through five players and blast it past the keeper...nope, that was #11. The coach doesn't score 4 goals in fifteen minutes...nope, that was #25. The coach doesn't dribble up to the keeper just to turn around and pass it back to someone in the midfield...nope, that was #4. Random numbers, but do you see my point? The coach can run those players all he wants to after the game but that won't change the game...
If the coach is to blame for anything in this matter, it's not drilling in his/her players the importance of sportsmanship. That's a lesson you can't quite grasp in a half-time speech...and that's the difference between an obviously more-skilled team scoring 6 or 7 versus scoring 15 or 16.
I completely understand how it feels to go 8 games without winning and then, in the 9th game, have the opportunity to score 15 goals on a team. In that ninth game, my team scored 7 on our opponents and stopped...and, y'know, it didn't take our coach telling us that night to stop scoring when we did. We knew.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 60
throw in
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throw in
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 60 |
Oh, and something I picked up recently...
"You can't teach your players a lesson if all you do is make excuses for them when they screw up."
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 976
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 976 |
Can't let the animals run the zoo.
I have yet to have a player score from the bench. It is absolutely within the power of every coach to limit the amount of goals a player scores. If 3 is the rule, it is amazing how they start passing after two to make sure that 3rd doesn't cut their playing time off. It really creates players who work together, and they look for that kid who hasn't scored when the game is 2-0 or 3-0 instead of 15-0.
Very few soccer games are won after someone is down 3-0, and in reality almost none after 2-0. If the zookeeper lets all of the animals know the rules, and puts them in the proper place in the zoo to keep the rules in place, the zoo runs pretty well.
Don't send me a bunch of emails about animal rights, "players aren't animals", etc. Please.
Retired, Old, Happy, and off into the sunset
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768
World Cup
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World Cup
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768 |
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Don't send me a bunch of emails about animal rights, "players aren't animals", etc. Please.
I've alerted Greenpeace as to your whereabouts.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 976
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 976 |
OK, change that to "Don't let the Martians run the planet."
Retired, Old, Happy, and off into the sunset
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 60
throw in
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throw in
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 60 |
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Don't send me a bunch of emails about animal rights, "players aren't animals", etc. Please.
No worries about that...if someone referred to any of my teammates as anything BUT animals, I'd be a little disappointed.
On a more serious note, my point is that players have the same responsibilities as coaches do in respecting other teams. When a TEAM (coach[es] and players) scores 17 on their opponent, the lack of sportsmanship lies with the players as well as the coaches...not just one or the other.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 976
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Posts: 976 |
Retired, Old, Happy, and off into the sunset
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
We've had a lot of conversation in this thread lately about players doing the right thing without having to be told to...in that light, I have to give a nod of respect to the Stratford High varsity girls.
In the first half of our game last night, I had a freshman player go down hard with a twisted knee. She hit the ground, rolled to protect the leg, and didn't move, but no whistle. The center official acknowledged that she was there but continued play. She stayed there, still not moving, and still no whistle; the ball changed hands a couple of times, and finally everyone, Berkeley and Stratford alike, just stopped. The center ref actually told them to go get the ball, that it was still in play, but the Stratford girls still stopped to acknowledge the player down. Finally one of my girls had the presence of mind to kick the ball out to stop play.
Now, at this point in the game, the score was still 1-0 and the match was very much up for grabs. The injury happened while attacking Stratford's goal, and play remained on the Stratford defensive third. They took a risk by not continuing to go hard for the ball, but it was the right thing to do, they all realized it, and they did it--not because they were told to stop, but even though they were told by the official NOT to stop. They even went as far as to return the ball to us on the throw-in.
I think this is a credit to the character of these young ladies and their coaches, and proof that players can and do make the right decisions, even in the heat of competition, with our without adult intervention. My hat's off, SHS ladies and coaches; you played a great game last night in all aspects, and you deserved your win.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 976
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Posts: 976 |
Very cool, lady Stratfords.
Retired, Old, Happy, and off into the sunset
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