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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768
World Cup
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World Cup
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768 |
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I do not think anyone would doubt the beauty of playing a passing game. However, tactically speaking, when the MF cannot keep pace and control the ball, then sometimes bypassing the MF is a great strategy. Put better skilled ball handlers that have great judgment in the back (change from 4-4-2 to a 4-3-3) and play-it up. Just like the other football (which I coached under now Dr. Maddox), every system in football works. It just depends on talent level as to which one you can get good at! I now post that Dale wins the dissagrement by common sense!
Many thanks to you and may Swansea destroy all opposition except for Airport in which a tie will be suffice 
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,170
coach
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coach
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,170 |
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Sure, sure, agreed. I've seen the back up, run up and kick the ball high to the parent's "Aaaaaahhhhhhhhh" and "oooooooohhhhhh". I've just got an issue with saying possession is the only way to go. I just find it hard to believe these two top teams were merely stupefied by some unknown being to suddenly begin kicking wildly at the ball in all directions. I also find it difficult to swallow that Arsenal/possession type soccer is the only way in life to go.
That "unknown being" is typically defensive pressure. There are a ton of players out there that can look good when there's little pressure; there are a lot fewer that look good as the pressure increases.
Take Wando for example. Wando does an excellent job of pressuring other teams into looking silly. I haven't seen Dorman play this year, but in the past they were very good at this as well.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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coach
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coach
Joined: Apr 2003
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Playing quick and direct balls to forwards feet or to space in behind the defensive line can be a very effective attacking style. Say for example you are lined up in a 4-3-3 formation, and the opposing team is lined up in a 3-5-2, odviously they have numbers up in the midfield. I would instruct my defensive players as an attacking strategy to play longer balls, bypassing the midfield to the forwards were I have a greater chance of success. Now depending on how the defense is playing the forwards would dictate If we play to feet or to space in behind the defense for the forwards to run on to.
I don't disagree that there are positive and negative attributes associated with direct and indirect styles of play. The key here is the term "control." Many high school games I see are characterized by a lack of control; thus, when someone talks about "boom ball" and "kick ball" they typically are referring to a style of play that is frenetic and without obvious purpose (other than to get the ball away from the player's immediate vicinity.) When someone uses the term "long ball" then it implies that there was an actual intent to play the ball long -- acurately to a teammate.
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I do not think anyone would doubt the beauty of playing a passing game. However, tactically speaking, when the MF cannot keep pace and control the ball, then sometimes bypassing the MF is a great strategy. Put better skilled ball handlers that have great judgment in the back (change from 4-4-2 to a 4-3-3) and play-it up. Just like the other football (which I coached under now Dr. Maddox), every system in football works. It just depends on talent level as to which one you can get good at! I now post that Dale wins the dissagrement by common sense!
I don't think anyone is arguing whether "long ball" soccer is either strategically or tactically sound. I do think that equating "long ball" soccer with "boom ball" is a logical fallacy.
The skills to play long ball soccer as per the EPL reference made to begin this discussion are as great or greater than the skills to play a less direct passing game. I haven't seen a lot more outside backs that are better at accurate 40-50+ yard passes than I have seen midfielders who are accurate at 10-20+ yards with their passes.
To summarize all of this -- there are times that "pray and kick" (or kick ball, or boom ball, or whatever) might work and is all you can play with the players and the opponents you have. The only reason I jumped into this discussion was that there appears to be a difference between "EPL long ball direct strategies" and "South Carolina girls high school kick the heck out of the ball and pray it goes somewhere else strategies."
But I'm certainly no authority -- and certainly haven't seen most of the high school teams play in South Carolina -- so I could absolutely be missing something here...
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768
World Cup
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World Cup
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768 |
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so dale jr., you are comparing South Carolina High School to EPL? or did you mean that is how they play it in the MLS-as that is how teams in the MLS paly-kick ball. Now i know who i am talking with...you keep telling your kids or team that is how you want them play. If they ever get a chance to play at a high level, they will be watching from the bench as that is not how quality soccer is played.
Maybe these teams strategically did play long ball-but as we can see it did not help as BE lost, and Waccamaw did not score again...
These two teams are full of club players and would have thought to see a quality game, that is all i saying...some teams are effective using kick ball and if it works use it
Seems to me he is arguing if it is strategically sound. I think that his first, second, and last point. I know you love playing the devil's advocate, but I'm having a hard time following you on this one.
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
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dale jr.-it is not worth explaining myself...so you just keep playing your long ball in the air and on the ground and never teach the kids possession...GOOD LUCK!!!
ps. my dad did coach me when i was a youth player and taught me the fundamentals....i learned from alot of different coaches and i never said i coached on 7 continents...however i did coach at the collegiate level and never did I once hear a coach tell their players to play KICK BALL
Coach Chickering
Camden High Soccer
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
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to add on to the comments..what i witnessed of this game, as i was there, was not effective for either team...they played kick ball most of the game and hoped someone could run on to it. it did not work-some of through balls (which is a tatic used in soccer) was at time effective (but this is different than kick or boom ball). both teams with a deep sweeper so they needed to possess the ball and penetrate the backs to be successfully. that was my point in the game....and secondly, if you were not there to see the game and make point of what i saw, then don't say anything....it sounds like everyone has made their points better than how i explained it...but you keep playing kick ball and i hope it works for you
Coach Chickering
Camden High Soccer
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768
World Cup
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World Cup
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768 |
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dale jr.-it is not worth explaining myself...so you just keep playing your long ball in the air and on the ground and never teach the kids possession...GOOD LUCK!!!
ps. my dad did coach me when i was a youth player and taught me the fundamentals....i learned from alot of different coaches and i never said i coached on 7 continents...however i did coach at the collegiate level and never did I once hear a coach tell their players to play KICK BALL
Still confused. Are you keepersd200whatever too? When did I say you coached on 7 continents? When did I say "play kick ball"?
Do you even know what you are talking about? Are you sick? Are you feeling ill or light-headed? Do you need me to call someone for you?
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768
World Cup
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World Cup
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,768 |
Quote:
to add on to the comments..what i witnessed of this game, as i was there, was not effective for either team...they played kick ball most of the game and hoped someone could run on to it. it did not work-some of through balls (which is a tatic used in soccer) was at time effective (but this is different than kick or boom ball). both teams with a deep sweeper so they needed to possess the ball and penetrate the backs to be successfully. that was my point in the game....and secondly, if you were not there to see the game and make point of what i saw, then don't say anything....it sounds like everyone has made their points better than how i explained it...but you keep playing kick ball and i hope it works for you
Are you speaking english? Not only has your incoherent rambling created a web of confusion, I'm having trouble deciphering what you are actually saying. Geez man/woman, proofread. Long ball is a genuine, useful tactic that can be used to over compensate a week midfield, or take advantage of team that over commits. Where did I say do not teach possession? Where did I say if my team is more skillful I'll not opt to play possession?
My comment is that long ball is a useful tactic. Do you agree or disagree. One answer goes against all soccer logic displayed in FIFA accepting countries everywhere. The other sends you down Hypocrite Lane. What's it gonna be? 
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Simple, and already mentioned...the "best" tactic is the one that fits the players available. If you have expert dribblers, passers, and general one-on-one ball handlers, the passing/possession game can frustrate your opponents and make them look silly, and always sending the ball long is a waste of their natural abilities. If on the other hand you have a ton of speed up top, heck, send the ball long and let them outrun the defense; playing short passes all the time would be a waste of THEIR natural talents.
There is no one "right" system, style, or formation; good coaches just pick the ones that play to their players' strengths and minimize their weaknesses.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
('Course, that said, even when playing long ball to a super-fast offense, it still pays to control the ball in the midfield and backfield long enough to draw the defense up and create some good running room...but I think Jr. has covered that as well.)
I've got good news and bad news...
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