SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP CSC/NECSA merger

I totally agree with the above point about the social aspect of playing High School ball. It gives them a new aspect of the game, one that is fun with little or no pressure and a chance to be a real superstar on their team. Most of your club coachs are more intimidated by a players excitement with playing for their HS then with the player “picking up bad habits” from an inferior coach. Who do they think they’re kidding?

And to bring this thread back around to the merger… I find this Columbia merger both amusing and troubling. Let’s face it, the only reason the merger is going through is because of the dominance in last years state finals by CESA. And from that dominance CESA is starting to put together teams that can compete on the regional level.

We live in a state that has 3.5 million people, about a million people less then the city of Atlanta. If you look at the dominant clubs in our region they come from area’s that have a large population… CASL, NTexas, Atlanta, etc. And most of these areas have gone to a single dominant club in their area. So while a merger in Columbia will certainly protect some coach’s jobs and allow the DOC to continue to collect a bonus from tournaments, and protect the local soccer store to provide uniforms and accessories… it’s not in the best interest of the elite soccer player.

The elite soccer player needs to be on a team that will get some entrance and recognition to the better tournaments where collrge coaches will be. The elite soccer player needs to be able to have a player profile that shows that they played, and were competitive with regionally/nationally ranked teams. We see from our results at ODP that our teams can play in the region, but few players advance because SC doesn’t have the respect that other states have earned.

So if you’re being told that this merger in Columbia is for the betterment of the player, it’s not. The best thing for our players would be a state club, a club that would provide them with a vehicle to be seen by college coaches. This merger will only continue to dilute the quality of the teams from SC, continuing our image of mediocrity. Yea, this merger will give Columbia a little more competitiveness in the State Championship, then they’ll go to regionals and the premier league and get destroyed.

Now please don’t get me wrong, I don’t know anyone in the clubs in Columbia so I can’t say for sure. But I would bet that this merger is more for the betterment of a few coaches, a few power mongers, and a few profiteers rather then for the betterment of the players.

uh-oh?!?! what's this? a well-thoughtout and realistic post? for someone posting for the first time on here, you hit the nail on the head IMO. we'll see how the Columbia teams fare in the future, but I'm more interested in seeing the $$$ trail that will lead to the obvious groups in benefit.

Maybe that is CESA's long range goal............to establish a base in Cola. in hopes of being located more central to all areas in SC. If that is the case, then the lowcountry or beach players would not have to travel 3 to 4 hours to upstate. Since SC is such a small state there is no reason why a 'state team' would not work and be attractive to all the best players throughout the state. CESA probably did not make a move to Cola. to solely be a further outlet for players at all levels. Its location, location, location......... They also have probably realized that to get the best possible teams that can compete favorably at regionals and nationally,you must become more accessible beyond just offering training in Cola. as they did last year. Can you imagine how the U18 boys, for instance, would do at regions or CASL with the best players from CESA,CSC,NECSA?

kickman,

Wouldn't that be the ODP team? Is your purpose:
1) more exposure for the player to college coaches?
2) better training for the player?
3) more victories in regional play so that the state of SC looks more attractive?

The benefit that I can see, is that successful "super clubs" like CESA, that win state championships get the following:

1) Play in the region premier league where college coaches can view "a quality match".
2) Get accepted into competitive "showcase" tournaments (WAGS, Raleigh Shootout, etc) that are attended by numerous college coaches.

ODP gets exposure....but I think a successful club team might trump it.

Chico?????

From my experience there's no comparison between ODP and being on a successful club team. Every year I look at the benefits of being on ODP, and every year it's questionable whether it's worth it.

The ODP coach has a limited timeline to gell the team. They are playing the interstate games in a season where the weather usually dominates the conversations on the sidelines. And as I said before they go away to camp and all of the coaches are watching the Texas, Georgia, Florida, and NC games. ODP serves its purpose but it isn't going to put a player in front of a lot of coaches.

Now the showcase tournaments, that's where you see a lot of coaches. Don't believe me, check out the coaches list for Disney. I haven't counted but it's hundreds.
http://disneyworldsports.disney.go.com/dwws/en_US/soccershowcase/events/detail?name=SoccerShowcaseCollegeCoaches2005EventInfoEventDetailPage

So the question now is how many teams from Columbia are going to be in front of these coaches? Regardless of the number, with this upcoming merger we can be guaranteed that our performance at tournaments like this will be yawn inspiring.

Don't quote me on this, but in order to get into Disney your team has to do "something special" like be top two in a state, or win some major tournament (I'm sure there are exceptions). For a South Carolina team, getting to be one of the top two teams in the state is probably the easiest thing for a team to accomplish. The Greenville area has CESA and has been sucessful in getting teams to the finals. Bridge has had a sucessful year in State Cup and will be able to enjoy some of the benefits (Better Tournaments, R3PL play, etc.) next year.

There are many good players in Columbia and a merger would definitely put teams within easy striking distance of state championships. IF that is a goal then it wouldn't take Columbia much to compete on a more frequent basis and showcase that talent in bigger arenas. The down side to this is do you want to sacrifice the many, just to put a few more kids in front of a college coach? A merger doesn't necesarily do this, but there are down sides to most deals and every player is not an elite player. Will the merger give the non-elite players what they need?

As long as a club can serve their community on multiple levels, they are doing the job. Two teams per age group at each level (premier-challenge or challenge-classic) means they are providing opportunity for both the "elite" and "competitive" player.

For a player that is only going to play challange ball then the size of the club really isn't important. As long as the club can field one team in their age group then they'll get a chance to play. But if the player is going to play at the elite level then the club size starts playing a more important role. 2004striker said it best when he wondered what the U18 boys would be like if they had one team, they might even be nationally ranked.

I don't understand how Hurst can say that by providing 2 teams at each age level the club is "doing their job". They're doing their job by sending our players to other states to get mauled and sent home in disgrace. And they’re really letting down the elite players by not providing them with an environment to become the best they can be.

By the time a player gets to be 16 they should know if they’re a challenge player or an elite player. And if they choose to go the elite route they and their parents should be prepared to make the financial and personal sacrifice of playing at that level. And when they get to 17 that’s when the colleges start looking at them. And by being on an elite team with the best quality players in the state each player will get better. Instead of a team with 3-4 quality players, the team will have 16 quality players. Each player will compete for his spot more, because he'll know that if he doesn't then he won't play. Every practice will be better because everyone will be serious, because if he isn't he'll know that he won't play. Each player will look better because they'll be giving/getting better passes and scoring more goals. The defense will be better because they'll be giving up fewer goals. They will look better because they will be better.. better players and a better team.

And if they want to play in college they better be at the top of their game and get in front of the college coaches. If these colleges are going to give them money they want a player that they can depend on, and the only thing that they have to go on is the players resume and the times that they’ve seen them play.

Now if you were a college coach getting ready to give away $100k for a scholarship, who would you give it to… A kid who’s player profile showed that he scored 2 goals in premier league on a team that didn’t win, or a player that scored 10 goals and was ranked 5th in the nation? Bottom line is that the average players aren’t going to play college ball, so it really doesn’t make a big difference whether you have 1 or 20 clubs in SC. But for the elite player it could make the difference between a school offering them a full ride or tell them that they’re welcome to be a “walk on”. And like it or not, a college coach is going to play the players that have scholarships. No coach wants to answer the question of why they’re not playing their money players. And if the player is a “walk-on” there’s no incentive for the coach to give them any money. They’re already there so why shouldn’t the coach save the money for someone else?

Face it, this merger is going to hurt some SC elite soccer players... and it might hurt them really big. I just hope that none of you have to look back and wonder how a certain player would have done if they had been offered the opportunity to play for that elite team that was nationally ranked. Awww... don't worry... $100k isn't what it used to be.

Preface: "Mikensc" -- a very well-written and very thought-provoking post. I'm going to hit the hottest topic first -- money.

>> [Mikensc] [...] So while a merger in Columbia will certainly protect some coach’s jobs and allow the DOC to continue to collect a bonus from tournaments, and protect the local soccer store to provide uniforms and accessories… it’s not in the best interest of the elite soccer player. [...]

Now please don’t get me wrong, I don’t know anyone in the clubs in Columbia so I can’t say for sure. But I would bet that this merger is more for the betterment of a few coaches, a few power mongers, and a few profiteers rather then for the betterment of the players.<<

Conflicts of interest are the bane of any corporate entity -- but are particularly insiduous in 501(c)(3) charitable organizations (which most large, and even not so large, youth soccer clubs are). They can erode the trust of the parents footing the bill very, very quickly.

So here's the rule on conflicts of interest -- don't allow any. If a club allows conflits of interest, even if these conflicts of interest are disclosed, then it's a huge red flag.

There are several places where large dollar conflicts of interest can reside in a youth club soccer program. Here are the more obvious:

1) Uniform/equipment acquisition.

2) Tournament management.

3) Consulting and activity fees.

In terms of uniform/equipment acquisition, the typical scenario is that one or more of the coaches and/or executives in a club own a retail outlet that sells uniforms and equipment to the club. This is a no brainer -- you can't allow it -- because it puts the coach/executive in a no-win position in which they have two fiduciary responsibilities -- one to their store and the other to their club.

When CESA was being formed one of the potential executive directors owned a store. He was given a fixed amount of time (actually a very short amount of time -- if I remember correctly about 90 days) to sell the store or shut it down if he wanted to accept an executive director position with CESA. It sounds harsh; however, the person involved was on board and completely understood the very clear position on conflicts of interest.

In terms of tournament management, again, you can't have someone in the club profiting by promoting, managing, etc. tournaments. Tournaments can rake in tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars (rumor is CASL does at least a million on its showcases) -- an executive or coach in the club taking away tens of thousands is a clear conflict. Any club large enough to have tournaments should be running them with volunteers so that the vast majority of the money goes straight to the club.

In terms of consulting and activity fees -- again, don't have them. Put employees on employment contracts and make any incentive fees part of those contracts -- and make sure that you do a benchmark comparison of the higher level coaches and executives salaries with other comparable clubs.

It goes without saying -- but I'll say it anyway -- no member of a board of a club should ever make one penney either directly or indirectly from the club. If a board member has a great idea and wants to do business with the club that's great -- but first the board member has to resign from the board and then she/he can approach the club as any other person would.

Bottom line: I'm not against anyone in a youth soccer club making money, but I believe that you should make baseline money for your job in the club and that any additional monies should be earned by meeting tough goals that benefit the club as a whole. If you have a perceived or actual conflict of interest -- then you have to shut it down immediately.