SC Soccer Forums SCSoccer.com Forums Club Soccer & ODP State Cup

Chico,

While tournament plans were being tossed around, the SCYSA calendar was considered. Seeing the conflict and knowing, as others have pointed out, it has been done in the past, an e-mail request was made to the SCYSA to allow a weekday first round game. A denial e-mail response was received.

As I said earlier, it's going to be interesting to see what happens if CESA 90 Premier is forced to choose.

Talon: Simply look at the 2004 and 2005 classes from CESA [on its web site]; you'll find a wide roster of men and women players and their associated colleges. These college coaches, and more, show up to some combintation of RIIIPL play, tournaments, and even practices.

To be specific and yet not exhaustive, with respect to the "big-two" Division 1-A schools in South Carolina, there have been coaches from both USC and Clemson at RIIIPL games this year, the RIII tournament this year, and even the state challenge cup finals last year.

And none of this even counts going to play against these colleges in the spring with a pool of players or playing in the fall with specific teams of players.

My only point in all of this that when you say "...of which very few teams compete in -- so much for the club 'exposure' argument by high paying clubs...", I know of at least one club that is a counter-example to the theory that it's difficult to get 'exposure'. There could very well be others...I hear that Carolina FC, CSC, Charlotte United, and Lexington teams all had at least one scrimmage against a college in 2005...I would think that there are others.

Chico(stick I want some Laffy Taffy).....

I hate to tangle w/ you but your arguement for CESA 's past two classes doesn't hold much water.

Ok The list has 60 players who got "soccer" scholarships. Very impressive.Here is a breakdown:

13 Players Signed w/ SC D1 Programs

25 Players Signed w/ SC DII or Lower

4 Players Signed w/ NC D1 Programs(No ACC)

6 Players Signed w/ NC DII or Lower

8 Players Signed w/ D1 Programs outside of NC/SC

4 Players Signed w/ DII or lower outside of NC/SC

I doubt any of the DII players got their chacne to play at the the likes of USC Aiken, PC, Lander, Erskine, Spartanburg Methodist, Belmont Abbey, Brevard, or Francis Marion by going to the CASAL Cup.......


Come on guys this idea that you can't play college soccer without going to these "super" tournaments is absurd!! Out of those 60 kids 17 went D1. I am not knocking CESA's effort here it is a great accomplishment to give these kids a chacne to play after HS....but I think some parents/Players are being sold a load of CRAP(by nomeans is it just CESA )!!!!!

Like I said the kids that went in state D1 or not all got seen in SC. Most likely at a HS game or local club match......I would even venture to say that the majority that went DII weren't even seen in person by the HEAD COACH!!! so this just doesn't fly w/ me....sorry!!

Cheers

Shearer, I understand what you are saying. Sure, you don't have to attend a showcase in order to be seen nor to play collegiate soccer. However, you implied that clubs are "selling" to the parents the notion that teams must attend showcases in order to be seen and/or play collegiate soccer. How do you know that to be true?

While it seems to be one of the attractive benefits, I am sure there are other reasons for attending these tournaments. For instance, the quality of opponent is much better at these tournaments. Also, the exposure for these clubs is tremendous, and I am sure it helps them in terms of qualitative and quantitative growth. With the increasing competition among clubs, there has to be differentiating factors, and I would venture to say that the level of tournament/competition would be one of them for any player/parent looking to make a move.

As for taking a shot at the division 2 coaches, I think you are wrong. Perhaps their recruiting interests aren't consistent with your ideas of potential players, but those coaches are recruiting somewhere. The days of relying solely on networking/video/paper resumes, etc. are pretty much over. There will always exist the reality of a player who was not seen by a coach and ends up doing very well for him/her. However, this was probably not foreseen or by design.

Shearer: I believe, probably quite inadvertently, you're engaged in the straw-man logical fallacy. Here's how we got to where we are:

• Talon: ...SCYSA couldn't care less for [...] big regional tournaments (of which very few teams compete in -- so much for the club 'exposure' argument by high paying clubs) [...]
• Chico: Between RIIIPL games, tournaments, and even practices, I've heard it's hard to watch soccer without bumping into a college coach for some of these teams...
• Talon: again, how many teams are doing this? what coaches? who's getting offered if any (if so, by whom)?
• Chico: [See the post to which you responded.]

In your post, here's where you set up the "straw man": "Come on guys this idea that you can't play college soccer without going to these "super" tournaments is absurd!"

If you look you'll find that I never once stated that you can't play college soccer without going to any type of tournament; indeed, I argue the exact opposite -- that there are college coaches even at some practices and RIIIPL games -- I mention scrimmages against colleges as well. My post showing the players and their coaches from CESA was made exclusively to respond to the specific questions that Talon made in his last post regarding which teams and coaches and offers were being made; as I note, there are many, many others [see Hurst66's thread in Girls HS about all of the SC freshman playing at SC colleges.]

Okay, hopefully that clarified the position you impugned to me.

Let's move on in your post. You have several interesting positions that I don't fully understand:

• [...] but I think some parents/Players are being sold a load of CRAP(by nomeans is it just CESA )!!!!! What I honestly don't understand is what is being sold. To put it more clearly, do you believe that there are clubs that are telling parents/players that they have to play in CASL if they want to play college? Which clubs are telling players that?
• Like I said the kids that went in state D1 or not all got seen in SC. Most likely at a HS game or local club match. I would even venture to say that the majority that went DII weren't even seen in person by the HEAD COACH!!! I know of no college coaches that scout primarily in high school. That doesn't mean that none do; it just means that of the several to whom I have spoken that they will go to HS games for secondary looks, but primary looks are done in club. But that's really a quibble; again, note that I discuss above many venues [including even practices and scrimmages]. However, what I find the most interesting is your theory that at the DII level, the head coaches never even see players that they sign. If so, they're closing their eyes in a lot of scrimmages of their teams versus club pools and teams.

If you go back in this thread to my earliest contribution, what you'll find is that I argue for the importance of going to these tournaments for one and only one reason: "The trouble is, of course, that it's pretty difficult to get into the top flight in these tournaments. You have to have a team that's done some amazing things. One of these amazing things is competing and winning at various brackets in these top tournaments." I never, ever mention college recruiting.

Both you and Talon have a point of view that I'm missing -- and trying to understand -- that clubs are misleading players and parents into believing that if you don't play in top tournaments, you can't get recruited in college. I've honestly never had a coach tell me that; if he or she did, I'd remind him of ODP if nothing else. However, I have had coaches tell me that if a team wants to be regionally and nationally competitive, you have to play in the top tournaments -- you get better by playing better teams. Going back to what started this, I believe that DSC's U15B team is arguably one of the better teams in the history of our state. I think it's sad when our soccer bureacracies prevent them from trying to get even better.

Ricky,
Don't waste your time with Shearer. He has consistantly aligned himself with high school and taken any chance he can to take a jab at club, and specifically any area outside of Columbia. He is a homer in every sense of the word.

Nino: Homer?

Nino,

Correct.....I think club is a bit over done....But where did I take a shot at a specific club? I gave praise to CESA's efforts in getting the kids those opportunities.

Shearer,
That is hilarious. I really was not referring to CESA, but clubs outside Cola. But, I can at least respect the idea of being true to your area.

Chico,

honestly don't understand is what is being sold. To put it more clearly, do you believe that there are clubs that are telling parents/players that they have to play in CASL if they want to play college? Which clubs are telling players that?

Not CASL but I do believe they are selling something that just isn't true. IMO I think too many club coaches are "pushing" (excuse the pun Nino) these tournaments as the players only outlet to college soccer.. Quite simply not true.

I know of no college coaches that scout primarily in high school. That doesn't mean that none do; it just means that of the several to whom I have spoken that they will go to HS games for secondary looks, but primary looks are done in club. But that's really a quibble; again, note that I discuss above many venues [including even practices and scrimmages]. However, what I find the most interesting is your theory that at the DII level, the head coaches never even see players that they sign. If so, they're closing their eyes in a lot of scrimmages of their teams versus club pools and teams.

I am sure you have spoken to quite a few college coaches and I am sure they told you quite a bit....but I tend to disagree w/ your perception of recruiting....especially at the smaller schoools. But that is just how I see it.

At the end of the day.......when it is all said and done.....etc etc etc......Going to these tournaments is really good for the players.....but don't try and sell the fact that if you don't play in these things that you won't be seen by college coaches....because that is simply not true. This is my point Chico......If you want to play college soccer(outside D1) you pretty much can. Especially in SC where EVERY small scholl has soccer.


I think it's sad when our soccer bureacracies prevent them from trying to get even better.

I agree w/ this 100% SCYSA should do better.