Shearer: I believe, probably quite inadvertently, you're engaged in the
straw-man logical fallacy. Here's how we got to where we are:
- Talon: ...SCYSA couldn't care less for [...] big regional tournaments (of which very few teams compete in -- so much for the club 'exposure' argument by high paying clubs) [...]
- Chico: Between RIIIPL games, tournaments, and even practices, I've heard it's hard to watch soccer without bumping into a college coach for some of these teams...
- Talon: again, how many teams are doing this? what coaches? who's getting offered if any (if so, by whom)?
- Chico: [See the post to which you responded.]
In your post, here's where you set up the "straw man": "Come on guys this idea that you can't play college soccer without going to these "super" tournaments is absurd!"
If you look you'll find that I never once stated that you can't play college soccer without going to any type of tournament; indeed, I argue the exact opposite -- that there are college coaches even at some practices and RIIIPL games -- I mention scrimmages against colleges as well. My post showing the players and their coaches from CESA was made exclusively to respond to the specific questions that Talon made in his last post regarding which teams and coaches and offers were being made; as I note, there are many, many others [see Hurst66's thread in Girls HS about all of the SC freshman playing at SC colleges.]
Okay, hopefully that clarified the position you impugned to me.
Let's move on in your post. You have several interesting positions that I don't fully understand:
- [...] but I think some parents/Players are being sold a load of CRAP(by nomeans is it just CESA )!!!!! What I honestly don't understand is what is being sold. To put it more clearly, do you believe that there are clubs that are telling parents/players that they have to play in CASL if they want to play college? Which clubs are telling players that?
- Like I said the kids that went in state D1 or not all got seen in SC. Most likely at a HS game or local club match. I would even venture to say that the majority that went DII weren't even seen in person by the HEAD COACH!!! I know of no college coaches that scout primarily in high school. That doesn't mean that none do; it just means that of the several to whom I have spoken that they will go to HS games for secondary looks, but primary looks are done in club. But that's really a quibble; again, note that I discuss above many venues [including even practices and scrimmages]. However, what I find the most interesting is your theory that at the DII level, the head coaches never even see players that they sign. If so, they're closing their eyes in a lot of scrimmages of their teams versus club pools and teams.
If you go back in this thread to my earliest contribution, what you'll find is that I argue for the importance of going to these tournaments for one and only one reason: "The trouble is, of course, that it's pretty difficult to get into the top flight in these tournaments. You have to have a team that's done some amazing things. One of these amazing things is competing and winning at various brackets in these top tournaments." I never, ever mention college recruiting.
Both you and Talon have a point of view that I'm missing -- and trying to understand -- that clubs are misleading players and parents into believing that if you don't play in top tournaments, you can't get recruited in college. I've honestly never had a coach tell me that; if he or she did, I'd remind him of ODP if nothing else. However, I have had coaches tell me that if a team wants to be regionally and nationally competitive, you have to play in the top tournaments -- you get better by playing better teams. Going back to what started this, I believe that DSC's U15B team is arguably one of the better teams in the history of our state. I think it's sad when our soccer bureacracies prevent them from trying to get even better.
