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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 90
Throw In
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Throw In
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 90 |
I hated to start a new topic but this covers several different areas previously discussed and I didn’t know where to post it. There are several things I wanted to comment on, "my views from the island!" I think there have been some interesting and thoughtful commentaries on the World Cup.
Remember when the US didn’t get a seed by FIFA? Mexico did. Could the US have advanced from Mexico’s group facing Portugal, Angola, and Iran? I personally doubt it, but I think Mexico would have fared similarly to us in our group.
Regarding the US performances – I have to preface by saying I’m a big proponent of MLS soccer. The league is extremely important. I question, however, the emotional capacities of MLS players on a stage like the World Cup. Simply put, they do not train with, or face in matches, players like those who play in Europe’s top leagues. Perhaps more importantly, they don’t play in front of 30+ thousand people very often. I imagine that takes some getting used to and I don’t blame them for being intimidated. I think that would be a difficult breach to jump. For instance, Eddie Pope’s defending against Koller was childlike (as was his raised hand while Italy scored) and I can’t help but wonder if a player like Bocanegra or even Berhalter, who mark big guys like that for a living, would have done better.
There’s a lot bad to say about the US team, but I’m most troubled by the personnel selection. It seems Arena picked some players and said “okay, good or not, these are the guys I’m taking to the world cup and they are going to play” regardless of whether they’ve scored in 18 games or not. Can you imagine any high school coach in SC sticking with a forward who hasn’t scored in 18 matches? I’ve heard several “insiders” also suggest that perhaps the USSF tells Arena he has to carry and play a certain number of MLS players. I hope that is not true.
Regardless, there are a lot of good US players that haven’t gotten much of a look from Arena. To add to the official player pool Kyle cited, here are other Americans who should surely be considered for national team duty:
Adin Brown, Aelesunds , Norwegian First Division Kenny Cooper, Manchester United FC, English Premier League Ramiro Corrales, Ham Kam , Norwegian First Division Max Ian-Josef Cream, Dunfermline Athletic, Scottish Premier League Jay DeMerit,Watford, English League Championship Jemal Johnson, Preston North End, English league Championship on loan from Blackburn Rovers, English Premier League Danny Karbassiyoon, Burnley, English League Championship Giuseppe Rossi, Manchester United FC, English Premier League Robbie Russell, Rosenberg BK, Norwegian First Division
The fact that Jonathan Spector, who at least has played with the US, is good enough for West Ham but not good enough for Bruce Arena speaks volumes in my mind. Also, the fact that the above players haven't ever played with the National Team, while Donovan turns in a year's worth of goalless performances, is absurd beyond comment. But with the brilliance of USSF I’m afraid our next captain will be Landon Donovan and the coach will be Marcelo Balboa.
It’s sad because they represent all of us.
Cheers everyone!
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 188
goal kick
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goal kick
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 188 |
Spector is injured and plays with Charlton. Cooper, who I think should have gone to Germany, is with Dallas. Rossi still says he does not want to play for the US.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 398
corner kick
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corner kick
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 398 |
The person who has not scored in 18 matches is not a forward but a midfielder. I am sorry, did Pope not play in 02? did we not play in front of 300000+ crowds in 02? I thought Conrad did an excellent job in the minutes he played. he plays in the mls. so why does someone else need a look. by the way, bocanegra is not a centerback at the international level.
So you listed 9 players who Bruce should have given a look too. Do you know how many players have earned their first cap under Arena. I do not know the number off the top of my head, but its alot. Have you ever seen these guys play or just read stuff from the internet? Arena has had a policy from day one that if you are not playing regularly for the first team, regardless of division, then you are not going to get a look period. Not saying I agree with this policy, but its his and he stuck by it. please tell me in the last 2 years the chances that Arena has had to bring in an unproven player? you are about to say friendlies. however, european based players find it hard to make it over to the US to play during their season.
I am just as disappointed as the next guy, but the bashing of Bruce Arena is absolutely uncalled for. Why did we have such lofty expectations coming into this cup? Because of 02. Was Bruce in charge then, I do not remember. we were in the hardest group possible. even if we play well, we might not get out. not to mention we had some very questionable calls go against us.
I believe that the US would have advanced from Mexicos group. but hey, thats how the draw works.
Just so you know, Klinnsmann or Myernick will be the next USA coach (in my opinion) if and when Bruce Arena decides to step down. To clarify somethings, Klinnsmann is now the head coach of Germany and Mynernick is the asst for the US. did not want to confuse anyone.
however if the two above do not work out, maybe we should hire a South Carolina High School Coach, teach the team to play the ball 60 yds down the field on every possession and run like hell. We can play a 3-5-2 (which the US proves does not work at the international level, but yet some people still are saying we need to play it). Maybe we can win a few that way in 2010.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,476 Likes: 2
World Cup
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World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,476 Likes: 2 |
Glad to see a national perspective printed in The State today. U.S. program needs to expand its baseRonald Blum, The Associated Press http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/sports/14896998.htm quote: “We have to do a much better job at broadening the base of elite athletes. Especially in the Hispanic community and the African-American community,” U.S. Soccer Federation president Sunil Gulati said Saturday, two days after the Americans were eliminated in the first round for the third time in their past five World Cups.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,025 Likes: 5
World Cup
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World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,025 Likes: 5 |
quote: however if the two above do not work out, maybe we should hire a South Carolina High School Coach, teach the team to play the ball 60 yds down the field on every possession and run like hell. We can play a 3-5-2 (which the US proves does not work at the international level, but yet some people still are saying we need to play it). Maybe we can win a few that way in 2010.
Hey, I actually like that proposal! At least it emphasizes an attack -- which the U.S. looked afraid and inept to do in the WC.
Lowerstate4A -- can you get me an application? ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,509
hat-trick
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hat-trick
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,509 |
I know we are all disappointed, but considering where we live and our country's sports preferences, aren't we setting our expectations a little high. Soccer in the USA is not even among the top 4 professional sports in terms of spectator interest and just about every other criteria.
The USA has qualified for the World Cup five consecutive times! This is huge in and of itself! Only 32 countries, out of more than 200 who belong to FIFA, qualify for the World Cup. For at least 28 of the countries in the 2006 World Cup, soccer is the most popular sport. And in many, it is practically the only national sport. And that is also true for most of the CONCACAF countries the USA bested while finishing first in our federation's qualification round.
I would say we have done fairly well considering these circumstances. We should still be disappointed. We should still want US Soccer to strive for a better finish and we should all do our part in promoting and supporting soccer so it becomes a more prominent part of our national sports landscape. But let's be realistic and appreciate how far soccer has come since the 1980s.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 90
Throw In
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Throw In
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 90 |
Lowerstate - Sorry I've offended you. The US already plays in nice 60 yd. crosses and runs like hell. What they can't manage is a through ball. Arena himself set the expectations. Playing in front of 30+thousand every four years isn't going to cut it. It would be intimidating. I agree, Conrad played very well. I just can't help but wonder. Just some thoughts - I'm not out in my yard burning the flag or expecting everyone to agree. Being held responsible is part of coaching. I think Bruce can take it. Other articles of interest: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=372268&root=worldcup&cc=5901 http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=372334&root=worldcup&cc=5901
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,427
coach
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coach
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,427 |
Soccer team selection at all levels (from HS 'all-stars' to club to national teams) in US has become a much too political process. It is time that all are included for evaluation, regardless of economic status, political connection, who you know, who your coach is, what side of town you live in, etc. Soccer will remain basically a sport for the privileged and connected if changes are not forthcoming. If it does not change and if the playing field is not leveled for all, we will continue to produce only satisfactory soccer. As an aside, this article talks about the underutilization of youth players in the selection process for this World Cup team. Even though the mens U-20 team won their strong group in 2005 World Youth Championships, none from that squad were selected. Obviously another political selection of the 'name' players. http://thesportseconomist.com/archive/2006_06_01__arch_file.htm
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,049
Brace
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Brace
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,049 |
What I found funny was how many of Arena's selections were either UVA or ACC alums. Oh well, interesting article about youth in Brazil.
Compare this to the American ODP system that produced the U.S. team in this year's World Cup. The U.S. system is highly structured and expensive. Brazil's is not. _______________________ June 25, 2006 In Brazil, Unpaved Path to Soccer Excellence By LARRY ROHTER RIO DE JANEIRO, June 24 — How does Brazil do it? Year after year, World Cup after World Cup, soccer stars seem to roll out of here like cars off a factory assembly line.
First came the generation of Pelé, Garrincha, Tostão and Rivelino, followed by Zico, Falcão and Socrates. Since the mid-1990's, Romário, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and now Kaká, Adriano and Robinho have further burnished Brazil's reputation for unmatched excellence. To the average fan around the world, Brazilian soccer appears to be a powerful, well-oiled machine.
But those who know it best are aware that the reality is far more complicated, that the country's record five World Cup championships are more a result of popular passion for the beautiful game, as it is often called here, than of any organized apparatus that methodically finds and develops players.
"There is no system in Brazil," said Carlos Roberto de Oliveira, who, playing as Roberto Dinamite, was a member of the Brazilian national team in the 1970's and early 1980's. "Everything happens on a random, haphazard basis."
To hear Brazilians tell it, organized professional soccer here is chaotic, corrupt and in perpetual disarray. But the game itself is so deeply ingrained in daily life — and in Brazilian identity and self-esteem — that its strength at the grass roots more than compensates for those deficiencies at the top.
Familiarity with soccer begins early, producing a bottomless pool of talent. By age 3, a boy has probably learned how to dribble the ball, and by 7 he is playing the informal sandlot version of the game with his pals in any open space they can find — a clearing in the jungle, an empty lot in a large city, a pasture or on the beach — and maybe sleeping with the ball, if he is fortunate enough to afford one.
Despite the considerable economic advances it has made over the last generation, Brazil is still a country with millions of poor among its 185 million people. And it is the poor who have traditionally seen success in soccer as their fastest ticket to prosperity and prestige.
Of the 23 players on the national squad competing in Germany this month, only three come from a background that would be considered middle class here. Most of the players, whether they were born in cities or in the countryside, come from families that are humble, the preferred term for poverty here.
Their success breeds only more success, especially now that the globalization of soccer has made Brazilian players increasingly in demand for teams all over the world. When a poor boy sees that a player like Ronaldinho, considered the best in the world going into the World Cup, can earn 28 million euros (about $35 million) a year, it encourages him to aim high and devote himself to the game.
"There are now so many role models, and no glass ceiling," said Alex Bellos, the author of "Futebol: Soccer, the Brazilian Way." "Go into any shantytown or urban center, and you're sure to find someone who had a mate at school who played with Ronaldo or knows someone else who is a pro footballer. The idea is more than a dream, it's a reality."
That hunger for success, however, does not explain the extraordinary inventiveness and fluidity with which Brazilians play the game. Some of the country's most knowledgeable analysts see that skill as a response to the confusion and unpredictability of daily life here, which has made Brazilians adept at what is called dribbling around rules and barriers.
"We Brazilians are accustomed to having to improvise, to being creative when we are in a tight spot," said Tostão, now a popular commentator whose real name is Eduardo Gonçalves de Andrade. "It's the foundation of our music and art, too, and that intuitive ability to sidestep the rules and improvise on the spot is what distinguishes the great player from the excellent."
As Brazil urbanizes and as it becomes harder to find open spaces, the game is also moving indoors, to gymnasiums in a form known as futsal. Ronaldinho and Robinho came out of that setting — the soccer equivalent of arena football in the United States.
"Futsal teaches players a capacity to create in a small space," said Juca Kfouri, one of Brazil's most influential and outspoken soccer commentators. "Then, when they get to play on the grass, on that larger stage, they can glory in really having room to create."
Traditionally, the path of a Brazilian player was clearly defined from the moment he was spotted playing sandlot ball, usually by an amateur scout who was often a fan of a local team. He was signed by that team as a teenager, passed on to a larger regional club if he showed promise, sold to one of the 20 or so teams with large national followings, and finally, if he was very lucky, ended his playing days in Europe.
Throughout his career, however long it lasted, a player was little more than a piece of merchandise. If he offended management or wanted too much money, he could easily be replaced because he had few contractual rights and there was always more talent waiting in the pipeline.
But when Pelé, the country's greatest player, became sports minister in the mid-1990's, he made an effort to change the system. Using his prestige, he managed to push legislation through the Brazilian legislature that was meant to reduce the power of clubs and give players more control of their careers.
The so-called Pelé Law has weakened the clubs, commentators agree, but it has also ended up benefiting agents more than the players. The agents, or impresarios, as they are known, have increasingly assumed responsibility for finding promising players, who are signed to personal management contracts and parked at clubs willing to showcase them until their value increases and they can be sold to a European club, sometimes while still teenagers.
"In the last decade, this has become an industry," Tostão said. "The clubs don't have as many scouts out there as they once did, people who will call out of love for a club and tell them they have to see a kid. Today, it's all the impresarios and their personal networks of scouts, which I think is a bad thing because they grab the kids and put them under their personal control."
In hopes of getting an early look at future stars, teams in Italy, England, Spain and Belgium have either bought pieces of Brazilian clubs or signed development deals with them. They are also bypassing the clubs and the player agents by sending their own scouts to scour the backlands and the urban slums for exportable talent, as Major League Baseball teams do in places like the Dominican Republic and Venezuela.
Brazilian law and international rules forbid teams to sign players who have barely entered their teens. But to get around that restriction, European teams are now offering jobs as drivers or cooks to the parents of promising young players, who are then taken to Europe and enrolled on their junior squads.
Private soccer schools are also growing in importance as sources of players. These operate independently of clubs and for the most part do not receive support from the Ministry of Sports or the Brazilian national confederation. The confederation has a $165 million contract with Nike, but is widely criticized for contributing little to development programs for Brazilian youth.
Roberto Dinamite is one of several former players who operate such academies. Born and reared in Duque de Caxias, a working-class suburb of Rio, he has established the headquarters of his Roberto Dinamite Institute across the street from the rutted field where he was first spotted at age 10 by a scout for the Vasco da Gama club.
His school in his old neighborhood has functioned for little more than a decade. But it has produced one player who is on the Brazilian national junior team, another who plays for PSV Eindhoven in the Netherlands and two who are signed to teams in Rio.
More than 150 boys, ages 7 through 16, participate in the program. On a cool and windy afternoon the day before Brazil's debut in the Cup, a group of 13-year-olds was going through a drill that required them to run a zigzag among a row of traffic cones, then take a pass with the right foot, dribble and finally kick the ball with the left foot.
"All of these kids know how to play, and every one of them wants to be the next Ronaldinho," Roberto Dinamite said. "But if there is even half a Ronaldinho here, or at some other school like this, then Brazil is going to remain atop the heap."
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,476 Likes: 2
World Cup
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World Cup
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8,476 Likes: 2 |
Lowerstate4A - I don't think there is any doubt that Bruce Arena was the right choice for the U.S. MNT after the Steve Sampson saga was ruined at the 1998 World Cup. Arena probably knew the personnel and U.S. soccer system/hierarchy better than any other native coach. He's done a great job with this squad and this year's World Cup withstanding, will probably go down (numbers-wise) as the top coach ever for the Red, White & Blue. However, there is no denying that his squad was not prepared for Germany this summer. The friendlies that the U.S. struggled with in May/June were painful to watch and that form continued vs. the Czech Republic, Germany, and Ghana. I heard Arena speak at the 1993 Final Four at Davidson College when South Carolina defeated Cal State Fullerton and then lost to his Virginia team, 2-0, in the National Championship. To put it nicely, the guy came across as an A+ jerk and arrogant ---! But, there was hardly anyone that could refute his claims, because he had been on top of the collegiate scene for so long. Personally, I believe he wants a new endeavor and doubt that he will continue in his current position. On the thought of Glenn Myernick taking over the reigns, I should hope not. His #1 responsibility was to scout and prepare for the first match vs. the Czech Republic. If the 3-0 shellacking proves anything, it's that he isn't capable of being the head coach of an international squad. quote: Bruce Arena on what the last 24 hours are like: “For me, I’m basically sick of the preparation. I want to hear a whistle tomorrow and get on with the game. Our players have worked extremely hard, so have our coaches. We’re very well prepared, there’s very little to say. Now it’s about stepping on the field and playing, and getting the job done. I can’t wait for tomorrow. We’ve prepared now for one month and we eagerly anticipate the opening game. We’re facing an outstanding team in the Czech Republic. However, we feel our preparation has gone well. Our team is ready to play, and there will be no excuses.”
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