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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 322
corner kick
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corner kick
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 322 |
You must get involved to have an impact. No one is impressed with the won-lost record of the referee.Napoleon Hill 
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Chico, Good points/questions. I know that we have a standing request for three officials for every varsity match, and many times we do not get the third official. I'm told by our assignor that this is due to the fact that he does not have enough available officials to provide three for every varsity match in his area. Now, as to whether this is a result of too few willing or too few with qualifications--or some combination of the above--I don't know. I keep hearing the lament that not enough people are involved, but I'm not close enough to the officiating circle to give a definitive answer; I'm just going by what the officials I've talked to have volunteered. The brain surgeon/ditch digger analogy breaks down a little simply due to the fact that club refs and high school refs essentially perform the same function, just at different certification levels, and I think there are many HS refs who might take exception to the assertion that the difference between a high school official and a club official is as dramatic as that of a ditch digger compared to a brain surgeon. Gaining a medical license in brain surgery would have little if any benefit to someone's ability to dig ditches, and in fact, the calluses acquired in digging ditches would probably interfere with his ability to perform sensitive surgery. However, certification as an official for club would certainly aid in one's ability to perform the same function at the high school level, it would still be the same type of work that the individual had chosen to pursue, and I'm not sure if officiating high school games would impair someone's ability to continue to perform at club matches. So, IF a certified official happens to be at leisure to participate in a HS match--and I understand and agree with what you mean about a busy schedule--what would be the drawback to getting in a few more games, doing more of something presumably enjoyable, and bringing in a level of training and expertise to enhance the high school experience for the many who are playing at that level, often without the benefits of club play? As for Mencken--and for the record, I love the quote; I have a soft spot for misanthropes, if we can't laugh at our own lot in life, we have no right to laugh at anyone else's--I would simply reply thus: If you know that which is beyond the presumed knowledge of the common man, you can be perceived as intelligent... But if you do NOT know what every educated man is presumed to know, you can really come off looking like an idiot. Hence the importance of the lowly English teacher! 
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Coach P,
You make a good point; if we could get schools to agree to stagger their game schedules so that everyone is not playing on the same nights, it would help increase the availability of officials on any given night. This, of course, would depend on how many nights per week the officials are willing to pull duty, though...I wonder how many would be interested in pulling double duty to cover the staggered schedule?
It would definitely take some cooperation to pull it off...nobody seems to want Monday game slots because it's hard to play your best when coming off a weekend; it's hard to give up that "Monday practice, Tuesday game, two good practices, then go again Friday" pattern. Maybe some would be willing to do Wednesday/Friday games, with others on a Tuesday/Thursday schedule? I know it's always much, MUCH easier to get three officials when we have to reschedule a match on a typically "off" night.
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,509
hat-trick
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hat-trick
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,509 |
Coach Chass,
In looking at the District 2 referee schedules for the last 3 weeks of March, I found the following:
- More than 75% of the scheduled referees worked 2 or more nights per week - 30% of the weeknight games were scheduled on Tuesday nights - 21% were on Monday, 13% on Wednesday, 18% on Thursday, and 22% on Friday - Of 269 varsity games, only 16 had 3 referees scheduled. Only 4 of these 16 were girls' games. So less than 6% of varsity games had 3 referees.
Last edited by Coach P; 04/06/07 06:39 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,509
hat-trick
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hat-trick
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,509 |
One logical way to allocate the limited referee resources would be to assign 3 referees to varsity games and 2 to JV games. The big problem with that in this area is that most of the games are still scheduled in JV/Varsity double headers. If they were scheduled in boys/girls double headers, it would only take 5 referees to do the 2 double headers rather than 6: 2 for the boys/girls JV double header and 3 for the varsity doubleheader.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 824
Brace
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Brace
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 824 |
Coach P
One of the conferences that I ref in in Northern Illinois does exactly what you just brought up. They have two referees that do the JV game, and then they continue on to do the lines for the varsity game. A center referee comes in just for the varsity game. I think they may pay more up here, a center ref gets at the minimum $53 for one game, and the referees that do the JV and line get at least $80. Another way that we are looking at handling new referees, or referees that tend to have lots of complaints against is as follows:
(I cut and pasted an email I just got from our officials association)
Observer Program: RASO will establish and maintain an observer program as required by the IHSA. The observer program will attempt to allow for consistency in referee mechanics, encourage improvement in the level of officiating throughout the organization, and attempt to improve recruitment and retention of IHSA referees. RASO will appoint a Program Coordinator for the RASO Observer Program who will attend the Observer training offered by the IHSA in July at the Annual Official’s Conference. He/She will then be responsible for the training of RASO’s additional observers. Qualification required for selection as an observer for RASO shall be as follows: 1. He/She must be a certified IHSA official; 2. He/She must attend a RASO observer training program; 3. He/She must be current in their attendance at rules interpretation meetings as well as re-certification clinics. 4. He/She must express a willingness to serve as an observer both to the program coordinator and the RASO president. 5. He/She must support the mission of both the IHSA and RASO.
Selection as an observer will rest solely with the president of RASO.
RASO will maintain a list of current observers and post their names on the website. If there are additional people willing to be trained as observers, a waiting list of interested individuals shall be maintained and be available.
Compensation: Observers will be paid a fee of _______ ($25.00) per observation by RASO. RASO may apply for grant money to help defray the costs of this program.
Only RASO members will be observed. Only one official may be observed at any one time. The observer must be just observing and not involved in any other activity that can interfere with the task of observing. Observations will begin with first year IHSA officials receiving priority. Any RASO member may request an observation at any time. The Program coordinator will identify officials who might benefit from an observation. The coordinator will contact those members by letter explaining the program and its purpose. It will be the responsibility of the official desiring an observation to contact an observer from the list and coordinate the date, time, and place for the observation to occur. After the observation has occurred, the observer will share their feedback with the official. This information is confidential and will remain between the observer and official unless the official gives permission for the videotaping of their mechanics to be used at future clinics.
I hope that that was "substantive" enough for what's next. Maybe he should pull his head out and come up for air. I have no idea why you attempted to start an argument over semantics and syntatical word useage. Who cares. Why would you seriously talk or write like that? I am an intelligent person, but you are attempting to thump your chest like some angry silver backed gorilla attempting to display your "dominance" for all to see.
Back to the subject....
The SCHSL is not alone in picking and choosing what rules that wish to use. The IHSA picks and chooses certain rules also. We have to have coaching boxes, if the coach is found to be outside of these boxes at any time in the match, they are to be yellow carded. The second time they are given a red. Tell me where that is in the NFHS rules. We also have to ask the coach if the players are properly equiped, if at any time during the match we determine that a player is not properly equiped, the coach gets carded. Once again, not in the NFHS rule book. Don't think that the SCHSL is alone with picking and choosing rules. Why not use a 45 minute half, why not only have 7 subs like in certain state cup matches, or 5 like in others. Or we could go crazy and just have 3 subs for an entire game. YOu can continue these arguments forever and never come to a conclusion. I just thought that I would inform you that the SCHSL is not alone with the rules.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,170
coach
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coach
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,170 |
>>[purpleandyellow] In Menken's day (and before and a bit after), teaching English was a low paying slot among teachers.<<
>>[Coach Chass] Hence the importance of the lowly English teacher!<<
I thought it was apropos only because of the deep syntactic discussions going on, not because of Mencken's penetrating insight into English teachers. Mencken had a problem with vested authority, whether it be English teachers, politicians, organized religion, or whatever. Quite often I find him to be an insufferable bigot (being a Christian, for example, I find his attitude toward religion and faith to be particularly obnoxious); however, his writing is absolutely amazing in its clarity and power. Really fascinating character...
>>[Coach Chass] The brain surgeon/ditch digger analogy breaks down a little simply due to the fact that club refs and high school refs essentially perform the same function, just at different certification levels, and I think there are many HS refs who might take exception to the assertion that the difference between a high school official and a club official is as dramatic as that of a ditch digger compared to a brain surgeon.<<
Let's go back to basics here. You asserted earlier So...they refuse to participate because they feel overqualified for the job? Seems a bit counterproductive...I would think the more certified officials we have in the ranks, the higher the overall level level of officiating would be--accepting, of course, that a certification necessarily indicates a higher level of performance (not always true). Perhaps it would help if more officials with higher certification would come and bring examples of officiating to the masses, rather than walking away...
My analogy was made to illustrate that different people choose to do different things based not on how much others might need them, but due to their own selfish interests and their own judgements concerning where their talents might be best put to use. Personally, I would think being a very good high school referee would be more difficult than being a very good club referee; the deviation of players tends to be greater and from what I've seen the crowds are louder in high school soccer. However, the larger point here is that if there are referees choosing not to participate in high school soccer, then it might be best to understand that not in terms of what benefits the "masses", but rather to understand that in terms of what benefits the referee.
Or...to view this more specifically, when you note: So, IF a certified official happens to be at leisure to participate in a HS match--and I understand and agree with what you mean about a busy schedule--what would be the drawback to getting in a few more games, doing more of something presumably enjoyable, and bringing in a level of training and expertise to enhance the high school experience for the many who are playing at that level, often without the benefits of club play?
I think the argued drawback is that the referee doesn't find it "presumably enjoyable." Others, tremendously more qualified than me, have raised crowd behavior and the two referee system as obstacles. My only point is that it's probably worth the time to understand the obstacles to "enjoyment" so that we can get more referees if that is needed.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2
Coach
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Coach
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,256 Likes: 2 |
Well said, Chico...and I am genuinely trying to understand just that. What's next cited "professionalism"--overall lack of credential requirements by the SCHSL--as the reason club officials of his acquaintance refused to participate in HS matches; I really don't want to think that translates into something more akin to "elitism." Fact is, we need as many good, responsible individuals--credentials notwithstanding--as we can get to work with our high school youth, to help maintain both the quality and the safety of the sport. If there are obstacles that make it less than desirable for qualified persons to participate, I'd like to see them brought to light so that they can hopefully be addressed.
On a related note, speaking of enjoying the role of officiating...we the coaches have been told by the HSL to maintain a strict distance from the officials, not to speak to or approach them after matches, not even to thank them for coming or compliment them on a job well done--when the final whistle blows everyone immediately goes their separate ways without so much as a how-do-you-do-good-match. I was wondering how this affects the perceived relationship between officials, coaches and players. I was always brought up to show hospitality, especially on my home field; to me, it seems distant and even rude to walk away without a word, and it also seems this rule assumes an adversarial relationship between officials and coaches. I wonder if it would be a more pleasant and enjoyable profession if we could have the option to exchange courtesy and make people feel welcome on our fields? I can't imagine really enjoying a job where I felt like I had to get out at all speed afterwards, avoiding eye contact with anyone around.
I'll admit I've bent the "no-approach" rule just far enough to say, "Gentlemen, thank you" to the officials while leaving the field. Any feedback on this issue from coaches and/or officials?
I've got good news and bad news...
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659
world cup
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world cup
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
How about if we move the HS boys season to the fall, keep the girls in the spring, stagger the games on different days.
Does this allow for more quality officials to be available to work a 3-man system at the HS level?
Kids play sports because they find it fun. Eliminate the fun and soon you eliminate the kid.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 306
Corner Kick
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Corner Kick
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 306 |
Thats a great idea Hurst. Conflicts with other sports would be a hurdle but still an awesome idea. When we played in fall before there was only the boys and it ran along with wrestling and basketball. The spring time slot has girls choosing between softball and soccer. Lots of benefits to your idea Hurst. Soccer would be going on almost year round that would be great. You could have a coach(es) able to do both. I think the players would benifit from this the most.
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