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Chico
Some cases may be harder to win than others......
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Quote:
We played rec and then academy at NECSA and CSC. Training was non-existent. Amazing what a year of having a Coach can do for an child's level of play and confidence...
GSDad:
This is puzzling to me since the technical director at CESA Columbia was the DOC at CSC through the fall of 2005 just prior to the merger. Are you saying that the same person who directed "non-existent" training at CSC is now directing "amazing" training at CESA-Columbia?
Last edited by Coach P; 05/18/07 05:38 PM.
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To add to this. The CESA staff is just as licensed as any other staff- they just don't advertise it.In this respect the website is a little behind but it may also be that that is not the priority of their website. looks they they like to publicize their players accomplishments.
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gamecock44: Okay...I'll assume that you're taking the position that licensing reflects a minimum level of competency versus an absolute indication of competency and now you want to discuss "win rate" as a metric.
I think we both agree that "win rate" as a single entity number is only one indicator of competency -- that there are other factors that should be taken into account.
Let's imagine that there are two lawyers: lawyer A who wins 90% of her cases and lawyer B who wins 10%. However, lawyer B believes that she is a better lawyer because lawyer A always chooses a better jury while lawyer B chooses any jury pool but in her opinion argues a better case.
I'm still going with lawyer A.
Now...let's take this to youth soccer. I've long advocated that since I'm the parent of an individual child, that a coach's (or club's) winning record is actually secondary to helping my child achieve her ambitions. Part of that ambition of course is team related (e.g., let's win nationals!); another part is strictly individual (I want to make the state ODP team, I want to make the region pool, I want to make the national pool, I want to play in college, etc.)
And complicating this further is that I don't care how good the coach is if the players around my child aren't going to help my child achieve her individual dreams, or if the club can't get the team into tournaments my child wants to get into, or if the club can't help my child get attention from college coaches, and so on.
Thus, I believe that a coach's (and club's) win rate is only one metric -- that other very important metrics are ODP players, region players, national players, outside honors, college signees, and so on.
Bottom line: I like competition and clubs competing with each other; however, I personally care about how well their teams and in particular how well kids do in the club as a basis for inter-club competition.
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Quote:
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gamecock44,
"equally qualifed staff"? and you are basing this on what? coaching licenses?
Steve: There are two schools of thought out there: one that regards licensing as an indication of a minimum level of competency in a profession [e.g., soccer coaches, teachers, lawyers, doctors, etc.] and another that regards soccer licenses as as direct indication of the level of competency in a profession.
Personally, when I need a lawyer to go to trial, I don't look for a lawyer that advertises that she passed the bar; I look for a lawyer that wins cases. But that's just me...
Chico,
While I basically agree with your statement, I think there is a little difference between taking graduated coaching licenses and passing the bar. If I understand it correctly, passing the bar is a one-time initial exam that is required for admission to the bar, whereas the coaching licenses are more like continuing education culminating with the USSF A or equivalent.
My philosophy is that the courses provide you with a set of tools and guidelines that you have to apply through experience. A combination of training and experience is what makes a qualified coach (or any other profession, for that matter).
As for my own situation, I held only the USSF D from 1998 - 2004. In 2004 I took the NSCAA National Diploma (USSF C equivalent). I came back from that course and tried to put what I had learned to practice over the last 3 years combined with experience. As a result of that combination of training and application through experience, I feel that I am a much better coach/trainer than I was before taking that course.
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Coach P: Understood -- it was intended only as an analogy. I'm not trying to say that coaching licensing is inversely related to the quality of coaching (of course!), nor am I even trying to say that coaching licensing is unrelated to the quality of coaching. Coaching licensing over a wide group of coaches I hope may be correlated to the quality of coaching. It's just that when I'm looking at data to try to make a decision regarding the quality of a coach, licensing is at most a minor thing I look at when compared to that coach's history.
Let's take an example from CUFC. I think Heather Frederick is a good coach. I don't know her license (I'm sure she has a very good one) -- however, I've spent the time to understand what she's done in the past and even had my kid train with her a few years ago. If she turned up tomorrow and had no license at all, it wouldn't change my opinion of her.
This isn't simply a soccer issue; I had severe issues with South Carolina's plan several years ago to reward teachers based on their certifications rather than rewarding teachers based on incremental student achievement. Compare the budget outlay for the high school national board certification program in terms of certification expense and bonus salary versus test scores of students. You could have easily predicted that one a mile away...
Last edited by Chico; 05/18/07 06:25 PM.
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Quote:
...rewarding teachers based on incremental student achievement.
What a revolutionary idea! I am the son of a career educator (teacher, principal, state dept administrator) who always said "If the student fails, the teacher has failed, at least to some degree, to do his job."
Last edited by Coach P; 05/18/07 06:56 PM.
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Quote:
Quote:
We played rec and then academy at NECSA and CSC. Training was non-existent. Amazing what a year of having a Coach can do for an child's level of play and confidence...
GSDad:
This is puzzling to me since the technical director at CESA Columbia was the DOC at CSC through the fall of 2005 just prior to the merger. Are you saying that the same person who directed "non-existent" training at CSC is now directing "amazing" training at CESA-Columbia?
...Or Coach P, GSDad could be saying that his or her player received sub-par training/development from CSC/NECSA as opposed to what they're receiving now. Now, if "you-Coach P" were the actual coach for GSDad's kid and(based on your own merits or lack there-of) then their claim is valid. Otherwise, I highly doubt this coach did a poor job at CSC/Necsa and they'd followed him to CESA!? To paraphrase "Chico" that is just non-sensical.  Right?
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Steve:
So I guess you are saying the difference is the individual coach rather than the leadership of the director. But I would still believe that "non-existent" training is also the responsibility of the director.
Last edited by Coach P; 05/18/07 06:48 PM.
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I would still be interested in knowing why it is that two programs directed by the same person produced such drastically different results: "non-existent" and "amazing".
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